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RE: bye bye Gitmo? - 1/24/2009 9:26:43 PM   
HalfShyHalfWild


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From: Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Hey - I'm good, but I'm not ALL knowing.

What are you talking about, and do you have any credible links?

Or is it all, as you call it, "hearsay"?

quote:

ORIGINAL: HalfShyHalfWild

Sorry, I guess I assumed you'd know whom I was referring too. And yes, the child in question was tortured. But I'm sure that's just all evil hearsay.

Oh, is that the standard we are using now to kidnap children?

I'm sure once one of  our children are kidnapped for years on end, and the phrase throw out about how all the infidels are trained from early childhood to hate Muslims and are intent on destroying them, we'll believe that one too right?







Here is one link, if you need help with google, let me know.

http://www.reprieve.org.uk/casework_mohammedelgharani.htm

May have some trouble finding out much else though thanks to another one of Bushes legacies left behind.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/24/AR2009012401702.html?hpid=moreheadlines

If anyone wants to tell me how we can keep people retained for years on this crud, I'd like to hear it.

Yeah, again, very happy the way I voted and close that stinking thing down already!







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RE: bye bye Gitmo? - 1/24/2009 9:31:51 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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Wow - you can buy "stop torture music" on that website.

Not real mainstream, is it.


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RE: bye bye Gitmo? - 1/24/2009 9:39:02 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
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Let`s hope it never is.......

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RE: bye bye Gitmo? - 1/24/2009 9:45:01 PM   
HalfShyHalfWild


Posts: 150
Joined: 2/11/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Wow - you can buy "stop torture music" on that website.

Not real mainstream, is it.



I can pull up a million links. What I will never be able to pull up... well... wait, what I can't pull up at this time is a government link with confirmation. We could revisit this topic in a few weeks to months. Since there is a now a President in charge who understands the Constitution and what it stands for, I may very well be able to pull that one up.

How many other stories like this do you think will be coming to light Sanity? And if they keep coming, at what point would it be enough? We all saw the images years ago, we all saw the shut down on information after that. You really think things got better?

People can mock those pictures all they want, but I vividly remember those images. And I would ask anyone here condoning it what they would think of some prison on this planet knowingly having almost all USA citizens in their walls and pulling crap like this upon them for years on end with no relief in site?  What would YOU be calling for? I know what I'd be calling for.

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RE: bye bye Gitmo? - 1/24/2009 10:09:33 PM   
Owner59


Posts: 17033
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Hey - I'm good, but I'm not ALL knowing.

What are you talking about, and do you have any credible links?

Or is it all, as you call it, "hearsay"?

quote:

ORIGINAL: HalfShyHalfWild

Sorry, I guess I assumed you'd know whom I was referring too. And yes, the child in question was tortured. But I'm sure that's just all evil hearsay.

Oh, is that the standard we are using now to kidnap children?

I'm sure once one of  our children are kidnapped for years on end, and the phrase throw out about how all the infidels are trained from early childhood to hate Muslims and are intent on destroying them, we'll believe that one too right?





Umm,the burden is on you to prove torture works or has merit.

You need to prove it and not just say so.

You need to show evidence that torture is an affective tool with documentation.

Relying on what that lying sack of shit dick cheney said or anything sourced from the bush admin doesn`t count as proof.

It`s not up to civil society to show why torture in wrong.

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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RE: bye bye Gitmo? - 1/25/2009 7:48:39 AM   
corysub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

bush blew it on just about every level.

ronald dumbfeld?

Paul Wolfowitz?

Mis-leading us into Iraq?

Bungling Afghanistan and letting bin-laden go to plan more attacks?

Dropping the Cole bombing investigation.?

Not investigating the Saudis after 9/11?!!!

Resisting the 9/11 commission?

Reveling the ID of a covert operator in the field.?!!!!!!

Revealing the covert operation that took years to develope.?!!!!!!!!!

Screwing our wounded GIs when they get home?!!

The full brunt of the damage he`s done hasn`t`t been fully absorbed yet.The tallies of the maimed and amputated haven`t been all counted and the real cost in dollars and professional care they require will last far beyond bush`s admin.

And gitmo is FUBR.

The trails were shame trails,the court,kangaroo.The eveidence,botched and most of the suspects from Afganistan were innocent,not part of al-queda.

And the taliban wasn`t taken out as bush claimed.It`s back and getting stronger by the day.

Can you honestly name anything he`s done right,cory?



Can I honestly name anything he has done right....?
Well..to begin with, no American has been killed by a terrorist since 9/11.  President Bush aggressive use of technology and aggressive interrogation has saved lives.  Not a bad thing, and I only pray that President Obama closing down these actions and signaling a possible closing of Gitmo do not have the consequence of attacks on his watch.

"Dropping the Cole bombing investigation"
Really!  Does the name Walid Muhammad bin Attash refresh your memory?  It's a name doubtless on the tongue of every American!  Well, maybe not EVERY American.  He happens to be the guy who planned the attack and put his team together in 1999 and, in addition, also planned and executed the attacks on the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998  when...who was President...oh yea,..Bill Clinton.  (Further referenced below)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/19/AR2007031900653.html

"Revealing the name of a covert operator in the field? 
Revealing covert operations"Gimme a break.  Valerie was no more a covert operator than you.  My guess is that everone in her cocktail circuit of girlfriends knew where she worked....behind a desk in Virginia.  On the other hand, libs don't seem to have a problem with the NY Times publishing details of secret government anti-terrorist programs because they had a hysterical hatred for Bush. Where is the balance here?  The media reported that we were tapping Bin-Ladens cell and were tracing his location...why the fuck did they report that program?  He stopped using his cell.  The media reported that we were tracking  international financial transfers through a banking consortium known as Swift in an effort to pinpoint terrorists.Why the fuck did they report that?  But the libs keep bringing up Valerie...and her idiot husband.

Mis-leading us into Iraq?  A move President Bush authorized based on information at the time, and with full approval of a super majority of the Senate..withhout the benefit of hindsight  two years or five years later. Everyone in government who had  oversight responsibility believed that Sadaam had WMD's, even Sadaam, I think.  Hillary and 76 other Senators voted the power of war to President Bush. Sadaam was warned by the United Nations through over a dozen resolutions, to no avail.  Sadaam was warned that he would suffer violent repercussions if he did not leave the country...to no avail.  It's always easier to second guess a leader like Bush than it is to lead a country with principles.  Obama is learning that now....hopefully.

Screwing our GI's when they return home!  Gimme a break...Do you have any idea how big this government is?  Do you really think that the President is responsible for every operation, for every paint job, for every check mailed?  Yea..the buck stops at the President's desk but it seems silly to think he is responsible for how all US$3,000,000,000,000 bucks are spent, even as intelligent a man as Bush.

Resisting the 9/11 Commission?  Sorry, but I thought we had an elected President to run the country, not a "commission".  The purpose of a commission is to study a situation, gather facts, and make recommendations.   Not to run the country. 53% of the people disagreed with Bush and now we have a new guy in the White House.  Do you think Obama should throw aside his principles and do what some "Commission" recommends like a puppy dog?  I don't think so!

"The trials were sham trials and most suspects from Afganistan were not part of Al Quaeda"...really? That's shocking to me.   I thought everyone in Afganistan was part of Al Quaeda!
Ohh wait...noooooo... most of the people on the battlefield wer Taliban...NOT Al Qaeda!

"And Gitmo is FUBR! "   LMAO  ROFL  IMHO  Would love to have a beer sometime!  jeeez...You do know that the terrorists held in Gitmo are treated better than some kid picked up by a police  precient in NYC or Newark, Philly, South Los Angeles, and even Barry's Chicago.  Ok, they don't have tennis courts and swimming pools, or american solders giving them a massage, yet... but only because Pelosi has not stuck it in the "Stimulus Package" she is writing in her office...and pissing off her own Commitee Chairmen I might add.

Your move:  Paul Wolfowitz .... My move:  Sandy Berger....Checkmate! 

Your move:  Bush blew it on every level!......Clinton got blown...  Checkmate!

Your moveRonald Dumbfeld..........Supported and presented to the President our generals plan for the textbook invasion and destruction of the fourth largest army in the world at the time.  I have to grant you that the administration unders-estimated the vengence of the Shia' against their former Sunni masters as well as the leverage affect of a relatively few Al Quaeda members with a great deal of explosive power pitting the two groups against each other.  Until the President assigned Gen. Petraus to the job and implemented his surge....ridiculed by Obama, Reid and Pelosi, I might add, the peace was going terribly.  The war was not lost as the democrat leadership pronounced while our men and women were still fighting in the field, and CNN has been denied their vicarious thrill it seemed to me of reporting the daily count of our warriors killed by IED's.  Now that Iraq has calmed down the focs is on Afganistan where there is still work to do.  Again, however, "winning" in Afganistan is 1/10 as important as our establishing a Sadaam free government in Iraq. It's like the U.S. taking back the Aleutian Islands and neglecting the Philippines.  Strategically, not urgent. OK, I'll give you Rumsfeld...but you have to take Joe Biden...deal?

< Message edited by corysub -- 1/25/2009 7:53:23 AM >

(in reply to Owner59)
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RE: bye bye Gitmo? - 1/25/2009 7:55:24 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub
Can I honestly name anything he has done right....?
Well..to begin with, no American has been killed by a terrorist since 9/11.  President Bush aggressive use of technology and aggressive interrogation has saved lives.  Not a bad thing, and I only pray that President Obama closing down these actions and signaling a possible closing of Gitmo do not have the consequence of attacks on his watch.

If only it was so
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/11/28/news/ML-Israel-India.php

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Profile   Post #: 127
RE: bye bye Gitmo? - 1/25/2009 8:06:29 AM   
corysub


Posts: 1492
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub
Can I honestly name anything he has done right....?
Well..to begin with, no American has been killed by a terrorist since 9/11.  President Bush aggressive use of technology and aggressive interrogation has saved lives.  Not a bad thing, and I only pray that President Obama closing down these actions and signaling a possible closing of Gitmo do not have the consequence of attacks on his watch.

If only it was so
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/11/28/news/ML-Israel-India.php


I apologize.  I did not realize that President Bush was responsible for the safety of Americans all over the planet.  I should have known better.  It is truly sad that six Americans were killed at prayer in Israel.  But do you blame that on Bush.  You know what I meant...and I stand by what I said.  I guess if this was my term paper in college I would have lost at least five points off my score for not adding "on American soil since 9/11"  ...maybe 20 points if I had a liberal prof...

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RE: bye bye Gitmo? - 1/25/2009 8:09:10 AM   
Owner59


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From: Dirty Jersey
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Actually,cory,over 6000 Americans have lost their lives since 9/11(plus a city) and bush doesn`t get a pass on 9/11 either.

So that would total to almost 9000 Americans lost(not counting the average amount of deaths per year).

The deadliest president since Nixon.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 1/25/2009 8:13:18 AM >


_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

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Profile   Post #: 129
RE: bye bye Gitmo? - 1/25/2009 8:09:23 AM   
kittinSol


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Your post made me think of another poster on these boards who keeps on calling 'libewals' "true believers". I wonder whether you realise what a "true believer" you are, cory.

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Profile   Post #: 130
RE: bye bye Gitmo? - 1/25/2009 8:23:15 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: corysub
Can I honestly name anything he has done right....?
Well..to begin with, no American has been killed by a terrorist since 9/11.  President Bush aggressive use of technology and aggressive interrogation has saved lives.  Not a bad thing, and I only pray that President Obama closing down these actions and signaling a possible closing of Gitmo do not have the consequence of attacks on his watch.

If only it was so
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/11/28/news/ML-Israel-India.php


I apologize.  I did not realize that President Bush was responsible for the safety of Americans all over the planet.  I should have known better.  It is truly sad that six Americans were killed at prayer in Israel.  But do you blame that on Bush.  You know what I meant...and I stand by what I said.  I guess if this was my term paper in college I would have lost at least five points off my score for not adding "on American soil since 9/11"  ...maybe 20 points if I had a liberal prof...

So these people don't count?
Robert Stevens
Kathy Ngnyen
Thomas Morris jr.
Joseph Curseen jr.
Ottilie Lundgren

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RE: bye bye Gitmo? - 1/25/2009 8:44:34 AM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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How many stories like that are going to come to light on half-baked websites?

I am guessing, endless. Kind of like, there are practically endless websites proclaiming that the world is flat, or that Elvis is alive and well, and living on another planet somewhere.

As for the pictures you claim to be so upset about - again, I am good, but I'm not all-knowing. Do you mean the Abu-Ghraib pictures, or do you mean some other pictures that are posted on some "Elvis-is-an-alien" type website somewhere.

If you mean Abu-Ghraib, I would like to take this opportunity to point out to you that the people responsible for those illegal actions were fully prosecuted. I'm sure you can find a "Flat Earth" website or two that disagrees with the facts, but "Oh well".

I can't help that.


quote:

ORIGINAL: HalfShyHalfWild
I can pull up a million links. What I will never be able to pull up... well... wait, what I can't pull up at this time is a government link with confirmation. We could revisit this topic in a few weeks to months. Since there is a now a President in charge who understands the Constitution and what it stands for, I may very well be able to pull that one up.

How many other stories like this do you think will be coming to light Sanity? And if they keep coming, at what point would it be enough? We all saw the images years ago, we all saw the shut down on information after that. You really think things got better?

People can mock those pictures all they want, but I vividly remember those images. And I would ask anyone here condoning it what they would think of some prison on this planet knowingly having almost all USA citizens in their walls and pulling crap like this upon them for years on end with no relief in site?  What would YOU be calling for? I know what I'd be calling for.



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RE: bye bye Gitmo? - 1/25/2009 9:12:10 AM   
Truthiness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cagey18
Again, did I call you a name?  I'll be happy to refer you to an online dictionary for the definition of 'ignorant' (hint: it's an adjective, not a noun as a 'name' would be).  Find where I used it above, and you might realize the accuracy of its use.


Well let's be fair here.  As most of us know, the purpose of an adjective is to describe a noun.  When addressing someone, calling them an adjective is describing them as a person, in effect you called Merc "An ignorant person"...which can be considered name calling.

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RE: bye bye Gitmo? - 1/25/2009 9:16:32 AM   
Truthiness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ArticMaestro
Most of the left hasn't caught on to the fact that the Campain was a bunch of BS, and are believing their own agitprop.  Heck, on the Gaza thread we have one still talking about what Obama is going to do, after he has already done the opposite.


Kinda reminds me of how amusing it is to see some of the pro-gay marriage friends I have convinced that Obama will legalize gay marriage when Obama has outright said already he believes marriage is between a man/woman, and has no intention of taking the right to legalize/outlaw it from the states.

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RE: bye bye Gitmo? - 1/25/2009 9:35:39 AM   
missturbation


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~gr~
 
Curious minds would like to know and i apologise if this has already been asked, but where is Obama planning to send the inmates of this place when it shuts?

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RE: bye bye Gitmo? - 1/25/2009 9:48:20 AM   
Owner59


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bush`s guest house...

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RE: bye bye Gitmo? - 1/25/2009 10:46:29 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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I'm hoping New York City.


quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

~gr~
 
Curious minds would like to know and i apologise if this has already been asked, but where is Obama planning to send the inmates of this place when it shuts?


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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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RE: bye bye Gitmo? - 1/25/2009 5:58:32 PM   
SilverMark


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I heard they were moving all the Gitmo prisoners to Idaho....and did you get some "stop torture music" for your ipod Sanity?

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RE: bye bye Gitmo? - 1/25/2009 6:19:55 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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I wonder how well they'll mix with all the Somalians they've been sending


quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

I heard they were moving all the Gitmo prisoners to Idaho....and did you get some "stop torture music" for your ipod Sanity?


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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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Profile   Post #: 139
RE: bye bye Gitmo? - 1/25/2009 6:26:13 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
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quote:

Yea...he went out with a 23% popularity rating...What does that prove?






I wonder if they are the same 23% that believe the POTUS is a moooslim
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090122/ts_alt_afp/usvotepoliticsobamaislam
yeah I know its old news but hell it was too good to pass up


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