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RE: The ratio tween D/s & vanilla? - 1/27/2009 6:12:57 PM

alittleevil

Posts: 235
Joined: 10/25/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

aj,

thanks for a clear understanding of your way of life and your input to the post. Indeed you 100% but girl has He ever heard of micro manageing?

CP

Hello again, and thank you for your thoughts.

Master doesn't really micro manage--he's just picky ;-).
Seriously, it is important for his household to eat healthily and to manage money wisely, so he does take a rather micro-management approach to the grocery shopping and cooking. It's important to him for the house to be kept to a certain standard (clean, but comfortably lived in) and for the certain, smaller people in it to behave responsibly and respectfully, but he doesn't "white glove" the house and he doesn't follow me around making sure i'm doing things up to his standards (how utterly tedious that would be!). I have ears and a brain and can perfectly "manage" my own activity within the guidelines/preferences he has. If i don't meet his standards, then he asserts himself more overtly.

I have freedom to sit here and read and type without his oversight, because he grants the time. Once again, it mostly boils down to the simple: he's in charge, i obey. It's always there, as an undercurrent, sometimes it's more overt. It works for him :-).

Best,
aj

(in reply to CelticPrince)

Post #: 81

RE: The ratio tween D/s & vanilla? - 1/27/2009 7:39:23 PM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline

Soooo, you wanna play philosopher??? Heh heh heh!

I have a life, not a life-style. Every facet of my personality, every asset and weakness, everything that gives me joy or makes me cry is all part of the big picture which makes up my life.
Do I need to dance 24/7 to be called a dancer?
Do I have to be a musician to enjoy music?
Is it possible to regain virginity if one abstains from sex?
If a couple is married, are there any hours in the day when they are not in that marriage?
If I pee standing up, does that change my gender?
We refer to the un-kinky as vanilla, as if their lives are never exciting, as if ours are never mundane.
My life is not just one thing; it is many things blended together.

I too will ask your definition of D/s, and add to it, what is your definition of vanilla?
Am I ‘vanilla’ because I scrub my kitchen floor to please myself? Am I D/s because I am subordinate to (or boss of) someone at work?
Is there anyone in this world who has no one and nothing that dominates them? Is there anyone in this world who has never mastered some skill or some one, even if it is the self?

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to CelticPrince)

Post #: 82

RE: The ratio tween D/s & vanilla? - 1/28/2009 7:24:41 AM

Amaros

Posts: 1363
Joined: 7/25/2005
Status: offline

I guess that as single person, rather than as one already in a relationship, I see it a bit differently - my trouble is finding someone compatible with the vanilla aspects of my life which is a bit complicated. So, I'm going to look at it the other way around, i.e., most posters here are talking about how vanilla fits into their BDSM lives, i.e., whether or not they feel conmfortable showing up for work in buttless chaps or wearing a spiked collar - I'm looking at it more like how I fit BDSM into my vanilla life.

Possibly it's partially the fact that I'm pretty much forced to search online, and there are not a whole lot of locals into this stuff, or if there are, they aren't online, but when it comes to things not working out, it seems to be the vanilla aspects that are more difficult to reconcile than the BDSM aspects of it.

In general terms, I'd say a relations passes through at least five stages: initial attraction, acquaintance, friendship, lovers, and commitment.

Not to say that people don't skip steps, and may go from attraction to being lovers almost instantly, but if it's going to be a lasting relationship, they'll have to go through the other stages regardless.

Now how to define, say friendship is a whole different story, but presumably, a shared interest in BDSM is going to be in there somewhere, if not at the center, but there are always other considerations: all the nuts and bolts of the thing, financial and social expectations, living arrangements, etc. - I mean I literally broke up with one sub because my bed was too small for her to sleep in (she really thrashes around, sleeping, I mean, long story).

It's frustrating, because people are actually pickier about their Vanilla expecations than they are about BDSM - you might think somebody who likes to be tied up and lashed, fucked like a rag doll, eat out of a dog dish, etc. wouldn't be all that picky about anything else - but, of course, you'd be wrong.

There is a lot more concern about ambiance these days than there used to be, the whole "lifestyle" issue - i.e., I encounter more Vanilla hard limits than I do kink hard limits, and it's usually the former that turn out to be the dealbreakers.

(in reply to catize)

Post #: 83

RE: The ratio tween D/s & vanilla? - 1/28/2009 7:32:00 AM

T1981

Posts: 557
Joined: 12/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: catize
We refer to the un-kinky as vanilla, as if their lives are never exciting, as if ours are never mundane.

Hmmm.....very, very good point. I hadn't thought of the implications of the word "vanilla" like that until you mentioned it. That's something for good brain food this morning.....thank you!

_____________________________

"Nothing is pointless, every single thing you do resonates." -Pintsize

(in reply to catize)

Post #: 84

RE: The ratio tween D/s & vanilla? - 1/28/2009 10:36:53 AM

CelticPrince

Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: E2Sweet

quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

...How much of the relationship is devoted to vanilla as a percentage of the total time between the parties?...

As I view it, our relationship is D/s and vanilla all swirled together with no specific schedule to dictate when it's time to be vanilla, and when its time to be domme/sub. I am submissive to her, but its not always displayed externally for everyone in the room to see. We just interact in the way that feels right for us, with her basically at the controls to throw a lever or flip a switch when she feels she wants or needs to. I don't know of a simpler way to explain it...

E2Sweet,

We all have that homogenious "swirl" thus the point of attempting to guesstimate the ratio; but in any case have a great day and thnaks for your input.

CP

(in reply to E2Sweet)

Post #: 85

RE: The ratio tween D/s & vanilla? - 1/28/2009 10:39:56 AM

CelticPrince

Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

We don't see it as either/or, it is just living life and do not seperate bits of it.

the.dark.

the dark,

I understand where your coming from, but i believe there is always a separation; when you both go shaopping at the food market, is the D/s dynamic alive during that time? Surely a couple cannot maintain !00% D/s dynamic?? or perhaps so...........

CP

It does and is. How can it not?
My question to you would be how do you define a 'Ds dynamic'?

the.dark.

the dark,

I guess i would say that when the 'control" issue is present either consciously or subconsciously.

CP

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 86

RE: The ratio tween D/s & vanilla? - 1/28/2009 11:05:57 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince
I guess i would say that when the 'control" issue is present either consciously or subconsciously.

CP

Hello CP
I think the issue is as Kyra said before - the way people define things. For example, Darcy loves that I have self control. That I have control of my own actions and my own ability to be responsible.
Now that said, we do not define Ds as control but authority. In other words, Darcy has complete authority in all things. And I know exactly his requirements becaue it is important to him that I do. He doesn't 'control' me because no one has control over everything, not even a person of themselves(with regards to emotions,hormones etc) but he does have complete and total authority. His authority remains ever present, regardless of what is done. I have seen some people speak of BDSM during this posting. To us, BDSM is what we do so no, it doesn't compute that it's 24/7 because we don't have constant pain or discipline.

the.dark.

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to CelticPrince)

Post #: 87

RE: The ratio tween D/s & vanilla? - 1/28/2009 1:08:47 PM

CelticPrince

Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

I think that one of the issues coming up here is the difference between "fantasy" and "mindset". It is possible to remain in a -mindset- that acknowledges one's place in a given dynamic, even in situations where the outward trappings of that dynamic do not readily appear, and just because it is something that is held as a mental focus doesn't make it a 'fantasy'... It is possible for a monk to maintain a mindset of introspection and deliberation, whether cooking, brewing fine ale, or sweeping the stairs, as well as when on hir knees in prayer in the temple. In the same way, it is possible for the -essence- of D/s or M/s or K/s or whatever to permeate even the most mundane, mainstream tasks. In that mindset, there is no -separation- between the act and the dynamic. Everything falls within the purview of the mindset in which one's mind is held. Trying to weigh it out and measure it is irrelevant.

I suspect that the -real- question beneath the layers here is "how much time do you spend doing kinky stuff like tying each other up and screwing, as opposed to time spent minding the household, doing the dishes, and changing the oil in the car?" It occurs to me that if this is the real essence of the question, that the point of living immersed in a full-time dynamic may be lost, at least from my POV, since it occurs to me that the point of living in a full-time dynamic is in order to bring the essence of that dynamic into the mundanities of the day-to-day common world.

Calla,

yes the responsed are like a pendulum. But my view is directed toward the mindset, much more than the physical acts.

CP

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)

Post #: 88

RE: The ratio tween D/s & vanilla? - 1/28/2009 1:15:25 PM

Goddess007

Posts: 36
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline

Just a quickie...What slave and I have is 100%. Will I pick up a dirty glass once in awhile? yes. When his arms are too full do I help carry groceries? yes. I believe to not do so would make Me lazy. I respect the fact that he works hard for Me, stays up late if I need to talk, and takes one hell of a beating. And you better be sure that if W/we are out in a "vanilla" setting, he opens the doors for Me, lights My cigarettes, makes sure My drinks are full, picks up anything I drop on the floor, etc. I am his Goddess, and he knows I am mean. I know he is a self-proclaimed wimp, but would a true wimp stop a train for You? At any rate, I hold strong that it is not about sex. W/we do it because that is what W/we were meant for. If it offends someone publically, I am sorry. I try My best not to. More times than not, tho, W/we have gotten a few amused laughs...
That's My two cents, thanks for reading...

(in reply to sparkyRBF)

Post #: 89

RE: The ratio tween D/s & vanilla? - 1/28/2009 1:32:39 PM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: T1981

quote:

ORIGINAL: catize
We refer to the un-kinky as vanilla, as if their lives are never exciting, as if ours are never mundane.

Hmmm.....very, very good point. I hadn't thought of the implications of the word "vanilla" like that until you mentioned it. That's something for good brain food this morning.....thank you!

The only food my brain can handle before 9a.m. is caffeine!

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to T1981)

Post #: 90

RE: The ratio tween D/s & vanilla? - 1/28/2009 7:01:41 PM

CelticPrince

Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

I read the question and followed all the responses...........and still don't know what YOU mean by *vanilla and D/s*.

Without knowing what you actually MEAN the whole question is ambiguous.

Dark said what I would have answered, so won't make a redundant comment there.

So is this a *How much time do you actively spend *mothering* when you're a mother?* type question?

agirl

agirl,

Well I guess it is easier if a person is in a relationship to ponder the question. Hiw one might interpret what is vanilla time is an individual thing.

CP

(in reply to agirl)

Post #: 91

RE: The ratio tween D/s & vanilla? - 1/28/2009 7:30:21 PM

masterericslave

Posts: 17
Joined: 1/28/2009
From: NJ
Status: offline

We are D/s 24/7 but with 8 kids (yes, I said 8) we tame it down a bit during the day. I have tasks Sir makes me do everyday. I call him Sir, acknowledge him when I enter any room where he is present...we have "rules"...we have a contract that I MUST follow! After the kiddies are in bed...our roles become a bit more intense. But, it works for us very well. I am submissive to him 24/7...I DO wear a collar. (a nice one during the day and a play one at night) It's a wonderful life!

_____________________________

~ Slave Madison

(in reply to CelticPrince)

Post #: 92

RE: The ratio tween D/s & vanilla? - 1/29/2009 7:17:02 AM

CelticPrince

Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: alittleevil

quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

aj,

thanks for a clear understanding of your way of life and your input to the post. Indeed you 100% but girl has He ever heard of micro manageing?

CP

Hello again, and thank you for your thoughts.

Master doesn't really micro manage--he's just picky ;-).
Seriously, it is important for his household to eat healthily and to manage money wisely, so he does take a rather micro-management approach to the grocery shopping and cooking. It's important to him for the house to be kept to a certain standard (clean, but comfortably lived in) and for the certain, smaller people in it to behave responsibly and respectfully, but he doesn't "white glove" the house and he doesn't follow me around making sure i'm doing things up to his standards (how utterly tedious that would be!). I have ears and a brain and can perfectly "manage" my own activity within the guidelines/preferences he has. If i don't meet his standards, then he asserts himself more overtly.

I have freedom to sit here and read and type without his oversight, because he grants the time. Once again, it mostly boils down to the simple: he's in charge, i obey. It's always there, as an undercurrent, sometimes it's more overt. It works for him :-).

Best,
aj

aj,

it sounds like a model relationship......claps!

CP

(in reply to alittleevil)

Post #: 93

RE: The ratio tween D/s & vanilla? - 1/30/2009 6:42:20 AM

CelticPrince

Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: masterericslave

We are D/s 24/7 but with 8 kids (yes, I said 8) we tame it down a bit during the day. I have tasks Sir makes me do everyday. I call him Sir, acknowledge him when I enter any room where he is present...we have "rules"...we have a contract that I MUST follow! After the kiddies are in bed...our roles become a bit more intense. But, it works for us very well. I am submissive to him 24/7...I DO wear a collar. (a nice one during the day and a play one at night) It's a wonderful life!

madison,

Welcome to the boards! It seems that you indeed 100 percent given that you have 8 reminders around all the time. Methinks the 24/7 collar might help.

CP

(in reply to masterericslave)

Post #: 94

RE: The ratio tween D/s & vanilla? - 1/30/2009 8:42:27 PM

MsEmpwr2

Posts: 48
Joined: 1/27/2009
Status: offline

This is a tough question for Me. My slave and I seem to flow easily in and out of the "nilla realm". There is never a time where it is purely nilla becuase of our dynamic but there are times when we are not actively pursuing D/s activities. I don't have a percentage. *wow* what a tough question! I look forward to reading the other replies.
Thanks!
Ms. Celeste

(in reply to CelticPrince)

Post #: 95

RE: The ratio tween D/s & vanilla? - 1/30/2009 8:59:15 PM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

This question is based on a conception of "vanilla" and "d/s" that I've never understood. I don't think "d/s" is limited to ass-slapping and name-calling and whatever else we do, nor do we revert to being "vanilla" when we go through the ordinary tasks of the day. "D/s" is a state of mind, and it permeates everything we do. Even if I'm just sitting having lunch, or watching TV, or talking on the phone, it's still d/s because I am dominant and she is submissive.

Frankly--and I'm sure no one's gonna like this, but so what--I think this false schism between "vanilla" and "d/s" is based on a Christian conception of sin. "Vanilla" is all the normal and wholesome stuff we do, and "d/s" is the sinful shit that we just can't get out of our system.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

How much of the relationship is devoted to vanilla as a percentage of the total time between the parties?
I personally know of no relationship that is based upon D/s that does not also entertwine vanilla, so my curious nature that tends to quantify many things pondered the question.

< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 1/30/2009 9:00:04 PM >

(in reply to CelticPrince)

Post #: 96

RE: The ratio tween D/s & vanilla? - 1/31/2009 3:51:26 AM

CelticPrince

Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsEmpwr2

This is a tough question for Me. My slave and I seem to flow easily in and out of the "nilla realm". There is never a time where it is purely nilla becuase of our dynamic but there are times when we are not actively pursuing D/s activities. I don't have a percentage. *wow* what a tough question! I look forward to reading the other replies.
Thanks!
Ms. Celeste

Ms
Celeste,

seems that you share a common theme with many others in the thread. Thanks for your input.

CP

(in reply to MsEmpwr2)

Post #: 97

RE: The ratio tween D/s & vanilla? - 1/31/2009 6:30:00 AM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: oceanwynds
My confusion in all this is while married in a 'vanilla' relationship, many things described here on this thread were also a daily part of my marriage. I went to the store and bought what he liked. We were not into kink, unless you call sex magick a kink, i don't. I didnt run around all day thinking I was vanilla either or believing i was living it. Heck I didnt know we were considered vanilla. I tried to make my late husband happy, as he tried me. What we did privately was between us, or others of like mind, though not of kink nature. So have I always been in a D/s relationship and not know it?

Even the lines are woobly for this with Sir and me. The biggest difference is we don't live together, I am not married/ or collared by him, and instead of using sex to create something [magick] we are into kink. I did not make decision for my late husband, though at times he did ask my opinion. Perhaps I just was in an old fashion marriage.

This post has been sitting in the back of my brain for the last few days and it has started quite a few thoughts running around in my head. This is just an early Saturday morning ramble...

To answer your question about being in a D/s relationship and not knowing it, yeah, it is perfectly possible. I know my parents have a D/s relationship to an extent and they don't know that other people label it 'D/s'; a portion of their relationship is based on mutual decision making power, but there are other things that my mom has the authority and my dad does what she tells him to do. My Lord and Alandra had a M/s relationship long before they knew other people called it M/s. They came across websites that described that type of relationship and realized that that is how they already lived. He has the authority within the relationship and she does what she is told.

Looking back at the relationships that I have had, there isn't one that I could really say was completely non D/s because I approached the relationship from the perspective of doing what I was told to do. With two of them, I just picked the wrong partners for that type of relationship and with the last he enjoyed exercising his will, he just lacked a little integrity (gross understatment there).

I am about to commit blasphemy on the board, but labeling a relationship D/s does not make it D/s, just like labeling something 'vanilla' doesn't make it vanilla. In my relationship, who we are makes it impossible to have a vanilla relationship with each other. Because of who we are he has the authority and Alandra and I willingly surrender our will to him. In just thinking about changing that aspect of ourselves, I can imagine the high level of stress that it would cause in our lives. It would have to be something pretty drastic that changes us on a fundamental level to ever have a relationship together that is in any way vanilla.

This post is in no way referring to kinky sex or kinky play. It isn't about who kneels, who wears a collar or cuffs, or what you call each other. It is about whose will is followed in the relationship between two (or more) people. To me that is the heart of D/s, one person's will is dominant and the other's is subordinate, or controlled by authority.

Knight's Kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to oceanwynds)

Post #: 98

RE: The ratio tween D/s & vanilla? - 1/31/2009 10:02:27 AM

oceanwynds

Posts: 1044
Joined: 8/24/2006
Status: offline

quote:

It is about whose will is followed in the relationship between two (or more) people. To me that is the heart of D/s, one person's will is dominant and the other's is subordinate, or controlled by authority.

Thank you kyra for taking the time to respond to me. Your post made perfectly sense to me and has eased my mind.

blessings
oceanwynds

(in reply to kyraofMists)

Post #: 99

RE: The ratio tween D/s & vanilla? - 2/1/2009 5:06:47 AM

CelticPrince

Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

This question is based on a conception of "vanilla" and "d/s" that I've never understood. I don't think "d/s" is limited to ass-slapping and name-calling and whatever else we do, nor do we revert to being "vanilla" when we go through the ordinary tasks of the day. "D/s" is a state of mind, and it permeates everything we do. Even if I'm just sitting having lunch, or watching TV, or talking on the phone, it's still d/s because I am dominant and she is submissive.

Frankly--and I'm sure no one's gonna like this, but so what--I think this false schism between "vanilla" and "d/s" is based on a Christian conception of sin. "Vanilla" is all the normal and wholesome stuff we do, and "d/s" is the sinful shit that we just can't get out of our system.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

How much of the relationship is devoted to vanilla as a percentage of the total time between the parties?
I personally know of no relationship that is based upon D/s that does not also entertwine vanilla, so my curious nature that tends to quantify many things pondered the question.

Lord,

I disagree re the sin non sin stuff, but re the power dynamic we are in accord.
D/s need not be inclusive of slapping and the physical contact aspect and it can and should be always present .... thus the question. Thanks for your input.

CP

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 100

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