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RE: To Gor or not to Gor... - 5/8/2009 3:27:32 PM

missturbation

Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
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I didn't get that impression from his op but what do i know

quote:

I can only guess the reason he posted here instead of on the Gorean area is because he knows he'd get slapped around if he asked a question or expressed an opinion there.

He did?
Talk about tarring everyone with the same brush
You may have had bad experiences with some folks from gor but not everyone is the same yanno.

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(in reply to MarsBonfire)

Post #: 41

RE: To Gor or not to Gor... - 5/8/2009 3:39:39 PM

IrishMist

Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
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quote:

From the first sentence in your post one could surmise that you don't wish to be treated with respect and common decency

The difference between you and I is that I have no expectation of it. If someone does treat me in such a way, it's because I earned it, not because I demanded and expected.

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If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.

(in reply to Loric)

Post #: 42

RE: To Gor or not to Gor... - 5/8/2009 3:40:45 PM

IrishMist

Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire

missturbation,

See? He's looking for opinions from Goreans... I can only guess the reason he posted here instead of on the Gorean area is because he knows he'd get slapped around if he asked a question or expressed an opinion there.

If he posted THIS there, yes, he would get slapped around. Like I said, they don't care about others opinions of them, they are too busy living life.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.

(in reply to MarsBonfire)

Post #: 43

RE: To Gor or not to Gor... - 5/8/2009 3:54:31 PM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

My opinions are based on the few gor I have met in person. I stand by what I say based on that observation. If it was a view of what I see online it wouldn't mean anything as I never visit the gor forum.
If it is percieved as an insult I cannot help that part, I can only say what I have noticed. People used to be as honorable as their parents raised them to be. I don't claim honor as a badge.. it is simply being decent.
Kyst

I'm not going to even attempt to explain how the Gorean Lifestylers view Honour or Integrity simply because it would be like water off a duck's back, particularly with your anti Gor stance and according to your own profile anti Victorian Lifestyle (probably based on ignorance and bad experiences with the few Gorean folk you have met face to face), and that I was for almost 10 years a Gorean Lifestyler and am now a Victorian period Lifestyler.

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Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

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(in reply to Missokyst)

Post #: 44

RE: To Gor or not to Gor... - 5/8/2009 4:22:14 PM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

From the first sentence in your post one could surmise that you don't wish to be treated with respect and common decency

The difference between you and I is that I have no expectation of it. If someone does treat me in such a way, it's because I earned it, not because I demanded and expected.

By your theory, when you go to the grocery store, the person at the checkout can treat you like crap because you haven't earned to be treated with politeness and likewise you can treat them like dirt as well.

The basic decency with which MOST of us treat our fellow human beings was earned by the ability to walk upright and have opposable thumbs. This isn't to say that people can't lose being treated decently by their actions, simply that the basic way to treat others is with the bare respect and politeness given to strangers.

To feel that others must earn the right not to be treated like crap by you is nothing but pure ignorant arrogance.

(in reply to IrishMist)

Post #: 45

RE: To Gor or not to Gor... - 5/8/2009 4:51:28 PM

DavanKael

Posts: 3072
Joined: 10/6/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Loric

My inclination is to respond with a respectful but firm shove off, which I did...*chuckles softly* and as My Grandfather used to say...no Man is so knowledgeable that He can't learn a few things...no One is perfect, all we can do is find the person(s) that is/are perfect for us

and Davan...have you read the unedited Stranger in a Strange Land?

Cool, so you replied as you are comfortable. :>
No one's perfect but that doesn't preclude wonderful, imo.
Yes, I've read both the edited and unedited versions of "Stranger...". It is my favorite book. :>
Davan

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(in reply to Loric)

Post #: 46

RE: To Gor or not to Gor... - 5/8/2009 5:58:00 PM

IrishMist

Posts: 7480
Joined: 11/17/2005
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quote:

By your theory, when you go to the grocery store, the person at the checkout can treat you like crap because you haven't earned to be treated with politeness and likewise you can treat them like dirt as well.

They can treat me any fucking way they choose to do so. All that aside though, you chose a really bad example because it is not respect that they treat customers with...its fucking courtesy...learn the fucking differnce please.

Respect is earned...no one is deserving of it unless they have earned it.

_____________________________

If I said something to offend you, please tell me what it was so that I can say it again later.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

Post #: 47

RE: To Gor or not to Gor... - 5/8/2009 6:02:58 PM

MarsBonfire

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Joined: 3/6/2005
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LaffayetteLady,

You know, I used to work at an IGA in my home city... so it's kinda funny to me that you should use that anology.... let me tell you, that store had no problem ejecting folks who were seen loitering in the ailses, shoplifting, opening up bags of chips for a "free sample" or who were there to cruise chicks as they were shopping. Yep, you give people a chance at the start... but when the prove themselves unworthy of basic etiquette (Say, by being a law abiding citizen in a grocery store, or... adhereing to SSC or RACK, or extending the same basic tolerance to fem-domme couples or trans folk even though they don't fit in neatly with the Gorean "philosophy") then all bets are off, honestly.

People in a larger community are free to deal with criminal, dangerous and anti-social behavior, to the extent the law allows.

(in reply to DavanKael)

Post #: 48

RE: To Gor or not to Gor... - 5/8/2009 6:11:10 PM

OrionTheWolf

Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
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Are you saying that Goreans are criminals, dangerous and anti-social? Don't mix words. If you have something to say, then say it.

Topics like this are amusing, because it often shows the bigotry that is bred from ignorance. Just like all bigotry is.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire
People in a larger community are free to deal with criminal, dangerous and anti-social behavior, to the extent the law allows.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to MarsBonfire)

Post #: 49

RE: To Gor or not to Gor... - 5/8/2009 6:14:37 PM

LadyHibiscus

Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

My opinions are based on the few gor I have met in person. I stand by what I say based on that observation. If it was a view of what I see online it wouldn't mean anything as I never visit the gor forum.
If it is percieved as an insult I cannot help that part, I can only say what I have noticed. People used to be as honorable as their parents raised them to be. I don't claim honor as a badge.. it is simply being decent.
Kyst

I'm not going to even attempt to explain how the Gorean Lifestylers view Honour or Integrity simply because it would be like water off a duck's back, particularly with your anti Gor stance and according to your own profile anti Victorian Lifestyle (probably based on ignorance and bad experiences with the few Gorean folk you have met face to face), and that I was for almost 10 years a Gorean Lifestyler and am now a Victorian period Lifestyler.

I wish every Gorean had your integrity, IronBear. I have met some Goreans who were fine people (albeit with views that I deeply disagree with!) that took care of their households and were loyal to their communities. I have met more that SAY they are Gorean, but behave like hypocritical yokels.

I suspect that every subgroup of every life path has good and bad examples in its numbers.

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]

(in reply to IronBear)

Post #: 50

RE: To Gor or not to Gor... - 5/8/2009 6:20:12 PM

LadyConstanze

Posts: 9722
Joined: 2/18/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AlexandraLynch

Personally, there's two reasons I don't do Gorean. First, I'm a dominant female, which is problematic in Gorean lifestyle stuff, and I really wasn't impressed by the books. But to each their own, and the only time I ever get annoyed by it is when someone thinks that because I don't have dangly bits I'm inferior to him. Otherwise, live and let live and have fun with your life.

I pretty much agree with that and the books don't appeal because I simply prefer something (apart from the content, which I find a bit tedious) that is better written. I can't imagine basing my life on a piece of fiction, even if I would be submissive (that would be like pretending I life in Star Trek universe), but if it floats somebody's boat, as long as nobody forces it down my throat, who cares? As long as people consensually take part in it and are happy with it, more power to them, why would I actually want to get involved in an argument about something that hasn't any impact on my life? And why would anybody be upset about people not understanding their particular fantasy? Isn't that giving power to them?

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(in reply to AlexandraLynch)

Post #: 51

RE: To Gor or not to Gor... - 5/8/2009 6:22:22 PM

OrionTheWolf

Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline

Exactly correct. Being Gorean has less to do with honor and integrity, and more to truth of self. There are very dominant Women that are Gorean, there are homosexual Men that are Gorean, being a TV does not exclude you from being Gorean. All of these things are perpetuated from humans, because humans have failings, even if they claim to be Gorean. The reason it is difficult to get a lot of Goreans to agree on what Gorean is, would be the fact that it is the same as being human so it comes with many variations. The only ones that I do not accept as Gorean, are those that just play some kind of Gorean character on the internet or in a role playing game.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

I wish every Gorean had your integrity, IronBear. I have met some Goreans who were fine people (albeit with views that I deeply disagree with!) that took care of their households and were loyal to their communities. I have met more that SAY they are Gorean, but behave like hypocritical yokels.

I suspect that every subgroup of every life path has good and bad examples in its numbers.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

Post #: 52

RE: To Gor or not to Gor... - 5/8/2009 6:31:18 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

Fast Reply

every walk of life has a good element and a bad... cops... Drs.. lawyers (ok, thats stretching it a bit).. but you get the point. BDSM has its share of wankers, im sure Leather, FemDom, ect... yet people seem surprised when they run into the same among those who claim to live a gorean life. its truly a shame so many of you have had bad experiences. the few i know are decent, hard working people who would give the shirts off their backs for someone who needed it. im sure many of you can say the same about people you know in the communities of your choices. using the few experiences you have had to define all future experiences you may have would be extremely limiting to your life. growth and learning can be wonderful, even scary, but we should never stop because of a few bad people.

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(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

Post #: 53

RE: To Gor or not to Gor... - 5/8/2009 6:32:17 PM

MarsBonfire

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Joined: 3/6/2005
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Orion, I'd love to take this further, but I've already had Mod XI on my butt about this subject several times already. Even though I don't remember citing any specific members when voiceing my opinions before, I did give her my promise I'd leave the Gor folk alone.

Let me just say that my opinions are hardly uninformed, and the term "bigotry" only applies if there is no good reason for the feelings to exist.

(in reply to OrionTheWolf)

Post #: 54

RE: To Gor or not to Gor... - 5/8/2009 6:46:16 PM

OrionTheWolf

Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire

Orion, I'd love to take this further, but I've already had Mod XI on my butt about this subject several times already. Even though I don't remember citing any specific members when voiceing my opinions before, I did give her my promise I'd leave the Gor folk alone.

You can Cmail me then if you like. Usually if you can have a discussion without being insulting, the mods do not say much.

quote:

Let me just say that my opinions are hardly uninformed, and the term "bigotry" only applies if there is no good reason for the feelings to exist.

You can say it if you like. No, bigotry applies when it is appropriate, just like if a white person had a bad opinion of a minority because they had been treated badly. It would not mean they were not bigoted. I am using the literal definition of bigotry as well, not the broad one. You are painting a broad group of people with the same brush, because of some personal differences you had with a few.

Many of the Goreans I know, you would not be able to tell were Gorean if you entered their home. They are people that have applied a personal philosophy to their lives, one that they recognize that happens to be in a fictional series written by a Professor of Philosophy.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to MarsBonfire)

Post #: 55

RE: To Gor or not to Gor... - 5/8/2009 7:21:30 PM

sujuguete

Posts: 263
Joined: 7/3/2008
From: DC metro area
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

By your theory, when you go to the grocery store, the person at the checkout can treat you like crap because you haven't earned to be treated with politeness and likewise you can treat them like dirt as well.

They can treat me any fucking way they choose to do so. All that aside though, you chose a really bad example because it is not respect that they treat customers with...its fucking courtesy...learn the fucking differnce please.

Respect is earned...no one is deserving of it unless they have earned it.

Your reply is neither respectful nor courteous. This leads me to believe you have no desire to earn the respect of anyone in this online community, which is your prerogative, of course. I wonder what modern society would be like if everyone had your attitude and approach to interpersonal relationships? How would anyone come to earn respect if they are not willing to be courteous or give respect?

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(in reply to IrishMist)

Post #: 56

RE: To Gor or not to Gor... - 5/8/2009 7:26:00 PM

SlyStone

Posts: 398
Joined: 12/23/2006
From: Chicago
Status: offline

Recently, I received a c-mail from someone belittling My way of life.

I always find it funny, here on the internet, when people are surprised when others don't blindly accept them to be the image they so carefully project, and it seems to me that, in general, people who ask for respect don't deserve it and those who offer it blindly don't respect themselves.

People are beaten and killed daily for beliving in a different God or coming from a diffenent tribe, so I would quit whining about getting nasty emails and not getting respect, cause all that one can ask is to be allowed the freedom to live ones life as one chooses, be content with that.

But, if you still seek respect than don't despair, it can always be bought with a big car and a fancy suit and perhaps you will find some solace with the knowledge that our most famous and respected icons are drunken upskirted empty headed fashionistas.

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Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.

Anais Nin

(in reply to Loric)

Post #: 57

RE: To Gor or not to Gor... - 5/8/2009 7:54:51 PM

silvermuse

Posts: 259
Joined: 6/8/2007
Status: offline

~FR~

I've met 'good' Goreans, and 'bad' Goreans. Unfortunately the 'bad' Goreans are the ones who often tend to be the loudest...

Human beings by and large are more likely to remember the loud mouthed, pain in the arse, all women must kneel and worship me types, that the quiet, confident man who walked past them without a word. It's unfortunate, but that's just how it works. So, the OP takes the flak as others have before him for those with the loudest voices.

muse

_____________________________

There is darkness and there is evil, never mistake the two.

(in reply to SlyStone)

Post #: 58

RE: To Gor or not to Gor... - 5/8/2009 8:06:45 PM

MarsBonfire

Posts: 1034
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline

Orion, if you look through my posts, I'm sure you'll find plenty of examples where I state my opinions about it. It's like typing at a brick wall. As for the definition of bigotry... that's interesting. If my negative feelings were toward a race, or a nationality, I suppose that would be bigoted... but if you are dead set against a "philosophy" that you consider anti-human...? Something less than enlightened? Something that you consider a huge step backward in rational thinking?

No.

Missteurbation, since you undoubtably have me on a block by now, I'll say it here:

I want to apologize to you for boorishly lumping you in with the Goreans. You're right, I should have checked your profile before I assumed so much. My only excuse was I was a little POed at some of the other responses I've been getting of late, again because these folks take any critisisim of their beliefs as some kind of declaration of war. Anyway, feel free to keep me blocked if you like... but, I felt I owed you an apology.

(in reply to SlyStone)

Post #: 59

RE: To Gor or not to Gor... - 5/8/2009 8:15:50 PM

OrionTheWolf

Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MarsBonfire

Orion, if you look through my posts, I'm sure you'll find plenty of examples where I state my opinions about it. It's like typing at a brick wall. As for the definition of bigotry... that's interesting. If my negative feelings were toward a race, or a nationality, I suppose that would be bigoted... but if you are dead set against a "philosophy" that you consider anti-human...? Something less than enlightened? Something that you consider a huge step backward in rational thinking?

No.

If you are actually interested in a discussion, Cmail me. I would rather do that than derail this topic. I am interested in what you mean by anti-human, less than enlightened, and a step backwards in rational thought. I have always considered the works of Plato, Socrates, Nietzsche (just to name a few) to have been great thinkers.

You must have run into some real uneducated jerks that are Gorean if that is what you came away with.

_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to MarsBonfire)

Post #: 60

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