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RE: To Gor or not to Gor... - 5/8/2009 8:20:02 PM

MarsBonfire

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Yup. You could say that.

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RE: To Gor or not to Gor... - 5/8/2009 8:29:50 PM

Missokyst

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Yep.. those are the ones I run across, sad to say. If this was not the case I wouldn't have formed this opinion. lol I have NO clue what victorian households are like, and would not comment on that one at all. But lol I cannot control where minds wander. I can only react to what I know and have observed.
<g> some people do not have that cap.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
I have met more that SAY they are Gorean, but behave like hypocritical yokels.

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RE: To Gor or not to Gor... - 5/8/2009 9:16:10 PM

LafayetteLady

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

By your theory, when you go to the grocery store, the person at the checkout can treat you like crap because you haven't earned to be treated with politeness and likewise you can treat them like dirt as well.

They can treat me any fucking way they choose to do so. All that aside though, you chose a really bad example because it is not respect that they treat customers with...its fucking courtesy...learn the fucking differnce please.

Respect is earned...no one is deserving of it unless they have earned it.

Interestingly enough, you seem hell bent to prove you are incapable of earning or deserving courtesy or respect. I am well aware of the difference between respect and courtesy and didn't even feel the need to lower myself to obsenity to find it. Children call a teacher "Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms. SoandSo" out of respect. Just because they are their teacher doesn't "earn" them that respect. It's a "given".

Some people choose to take the high road and treat others with courtesy and respect until they are given a reason not to. It isn't about kneeling before them and accepting their opinions or actions of someone who is an expert in their field or has earned the right to have others look up to them. It is basically behaving towards others the way you would hope they behave towards you. I'm sorry that you've become so jaded and disappointed with others that you don't expect those things from others anymore so much so that you need to resort to obscene language in an attempt to get your point across.

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RE: To Gor or not to Gor... - 5/8/2009 11:32:54 PM

Malkinius

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{Fast Reply}

Greetings all.....

I have been reading this and doing my best to stay out of it. It is time to clear up some misinformation. The people posting here so far who have the best clue about what Goreans really are and believe have been Iron Bear, IrishMist followed by Orion. Yes, that includes the OP.

Most of what people see who call themselves Gorean are either players and mostly online players at that or people who decided they were Gorean after having decided they were part of the BDSM lifestyle, Old Guard, Leather, or whatever lifestyle group they wanted to identify with. They usually don't have much of a clue what being any of those things are really about but they sound cool and they can be used to pick up chicks...er...slaves....subs...whatever. If they can whip it and f*ck it or wank to it they are happy. BDSM is full of such people. You have all seen them and too many times. They are the instant experts on whatever the subject of the day is and they are so domly/servile it hurts....from controlling the laughter and the pain of it all.

Being Gorean is how you live your life in relation to others and to yourself. It is a set of philosophical tenets which give the basis for what we consider ethical behavior. Goreans and those interested in becoming Gorean have argued exactly what those things are and how to practice them for years and I see no sign of that changing. Being Gorean has nothing to do with kink, slavery, bondage, fetishes or any other part of BDSM.

Goreans do not have "dominants" in the terms of BDSM. We don't have "subs" either. We have free people. Some free people own slaves. Some people are more dominant than others. Gorean say that men tend to the dominant side of the dominant/submissive spectrum and women tend to the submissive side of the spectrum. The bell curve goes to both ends for both sexes.

Goreans as Goreans don't bother with things like SSC and RACK. We don't need them. Most of us don't do pain and other BDSM play. My slave does not need a safe word when told to refill my coffee cup. Some Goreans are involved in BDSM and then they tend to go by BDSM customs and only when doing things that can be dangerous do we worry about such things. I usually say that Goreans try to live by DBS rules. (Don't Be Stupid). Not everyone succeeds all the time including myself. When we don't, we see it as our responsibility to fix our mistakes to the best of our ability. Taking responsibility for our actions is a part of being Gorean.

The comments about Goreans not usually bothering to reply to things like this because we are too busy living what we believe is pure Gorean thought. Sometimes we are not so busy. Also, like any other group, some take on duties which involve the explanation of who and what Goreans are or can be. I have chosen to be one of those people.

One last personal nit-picky thing. <grins> The Gor books are not fantasies. Technically, they are pure science fiction. There are no fantasy elements.

Who am I to say all this? I am a man. I am Gorean. And I have earned the right and recognition over the years to say both.

Be well all....

Malkinius

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RE: To Gor or not to Gor... - 5/8/2009 11:50:46 PM

Loric

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I distinctly recall in the original post stating that opinions from everyone on the matter would be welcome, which was the point of posting it on this board.

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RE: To Gor or not to Gor... - 5/9/2009 12:23:28 AM

Whiplashsmile4

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

quote:

By your theory, when you go to the grocery store, the person at the checkout can treat you like crap because you haven't earned to be treated with politeness and likewise you can treat them like dirt as well.

They can treat me any fucking way they choose to do so. All that aside though, you chose a really bad example because it is not respect that they treat customers with...its fucking courtesy...learn the fucking differnce please.

Respect is earned...no one is deserving of it unless they have earned it.

Interestingly enough, you seem hell bent to prove you are incapable of earning or deserving courtesy or respect. I am well aware of the difference between respect and courtesy and didn't even feel the need to lower myself to obsenity to find it. Children call a teacher "Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms. SoandSo" out of respect. Just because they are their teacher doesn't "earn" them that respect. It's a "given".

Some people choose to take the high road and treat others with courtesy and respect until they are given a reason not to. It isn't about kneeling before them and accepting their opinions or actions of someone who is an expert in their field or has earned the right to have others look up to them. It is basically behaving towards others the way you would hope they behave towards you. I'm sorry that you've become so jaded and disappointed with others that you don't expect those things from others anymore so much so that you need to resort to obscene language in an attempt to get your point across.

Whenever I start to read debates where people are twisting repect around like this, it sort of irks the hell out of me.

Civil, Social and Business respect is not to be confused with interpersonal relationship respect. There is a difference between Civil (basic common coutsey) and actually TRUE or REAL respect for somebody. Just because I'm polite to somebody does not mean I actually fucking respect them. Just because another stranger is polite does not mean that they actually TRUELY respect me either.

What I am saying there is a BIG Difference between Polite Civil respectful manners and Actual True or Real Respect for somebody as a human being.

I was taught something at an early age. When it comes to police officers and Military officers and whatnot. Respect the Uniform or Position but you do not have to respect the person. Hence. "Sir, Respectfully Sir Fuck Off Sir". Some people don't understand the Paradox of Respect.

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RE: To Gor or not to Gor... - 5/9/2009 12:34:21 AM

Whiplashsmile4

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The Difference I see between Goreans and Non Goreans is such.

Goreans base their life on a set of moral conducts from a series of fictional writting. Have choosen to adapt/mirror behaviors and protocols from said work of fiction.

None the less Goreans are just as Human as everybody else. There are some really amazing people who are Goreans and there some Assholes too.

The one thing that the Goreans have in common is that they choose to mirror or adapt a way of life based based on standards presented in a series of fictional writtings. Some people will simply toss out a few books, while others will embrace some of those books.

BTW, Free women in GOR by far out number the Gorean slave population. In fact the majority of people in GOR are actually Free people. Yes, FREE Gorean women out number Gorean slave girls greatly. But let's not get into that, it might make GOR start to seem too Vanilla.

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RE: To Gor or not to Gor... - 5/9/2009 1:06:24 AM

Whiplashsmile4

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Loric

yes, it does happen...and it shouldn't...because as My Grandfather used to say...before you can control others, you must first learn to control yourself...and if a Dominant doesn't have enough self control to not belittle and mock another's beliefs then they aren't a Dominant in My book...and as for the person threatening you...that's definately a silly thing for them to do as it wouldn't take much to have them locked up for terroristic threats at the least

On the other extreme being Dominant also meaning have a clear understanding of your own beliefs. People will tend to mock or belittle other peoples beliefs privately though. Just because you are not doing it to somebody's face does not change how you honestly think or feel about anothers belief system. At best, you are just controlling your tounge but not your honest thoughts. If you can respectfully express your disagreement to those beliefs without mocking them. If you can express why their beliefs are not for you, give a solid reasoning and personal justification so be it. You can go against their beliefs without mocking them. However this is easier said then done at times.

At times, you can be in perfect control, knowing full damn well that you are mocking or belittling something or somebody. The thing is if you do this be prepared to accept responsibility for your own actions. If you mock somebody or something, be certain you honestly damn well mean it and stick to your guns. None of this Apology crap afterwards.

My Grandfather expressed to me, never apologize for something you actually mean, think or feel. That's just an insincere apology that is not honest.

If there is a social ramification to having run your mouth, so be it. I said something in the past about people, admitted it to their face. Tell you what, I don't socialize with those people, have Zero intention of trying to be their friend. I don't want them in my life at all and I have Zero interest in having anything at all to do with them either. They know full damn well where I stand and I know where they stand as well. Perfect understanding of one another. Priceless.

If anything a form of trust and honestly is established. We two people know without question their differences and don't go out of their way to antagonize one another and don't go out of their way to kiss ass either.

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RE: To Gor or not to Gor... - 5/9/2009 1:33:38 AM

WyldHrt

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quote:

Children call a teacher "Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms. SoandSo" out of respect. Just because they are their teacher doesn't "earn" them that respect. It's a "given".

Ummm... regardless of Mist's phrasing in her posts, the above is not an example of respect, merely convention. I could name any number of teachers from my childhood called many other things behind their backs by students who did not even remotely respect them, but they still got "Mr./Mrs./Miss/Ms" to their faces. Is that respect? No.
Jus sayin. YMMV

< Message edited by WyldHrt -- 5/9/2009 1:34:14 AM >

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RE: To Gor or not to Gor... - 5/9/2009 1:58:52 AM

SIRLOINSTEAK

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Didn't realize GOR was Shakespeare......

GOR is good sci-fi fantasy.....

The problem is that its a little childish and/or immature to not be a leader, but a follower, and to follow someone else's fantasy. Now its one thing to really like something, its totally another to actually try to emulate it, role play it, etc 24/7.....

It depends how realistic and how dependant you are on this fantasy world, which is still not reality as far as we know....not that it isn't posssible, which is why it makes good sci-fi fantasy....

Perhaps in an alternate reality, whatever....it hardly matters....

You being critiqued for your choices is valid, and you trying to argue here its UN-DOM-LY shows you are a follower, not a leader.....

If you choose to emulate and be open about said emulation, fine, but change some things up, at least a little.....Being too predictable is a mistake, because variety is the spice of life....

I remember a friend of mine was a rule monger, and you thinking you are right shows you lack true leadership....

A real leader looks at things from more of a bird's eye view....

Now grant you, I'm not completely on this other guys side either who critisized you, there should be a certain live and let live, but you should try to understand where he is coming from....

And I stand with you that GOR is good BDSM material, as is alot of sci-fi fantasy books......

You are also not the first person to be "GOREAN"

Mind you, this is my opinion. I'm not very humble, unfortunately (not IMHO). You can consider me arrogant and have an attitude. ;0 As a leader I don't care what you think.. ;0

You talking about this other guy does cry that you care, otherwise why be glued to this discussion. ;/ GET A LIFE, FIND A SLAVE, and STOP SEEKING APPROVAL FROM WITHOUT......

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RE: To Gor or not to Gor... - 5/9/2009 2:28:57 AM

Viridana

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quote:

ORIGINAL: breatheasone

quote:

ORIGINAL: Loric

I do expect to be given the basic respect that all living things deserve.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Loric

I have been known to call all submissives girl as well, and I don't mean it as an insult...it is, after all what they are...if they take offense, I rectify the matter.

i'm just curious why you don't give, what it is YOU expect?

I'd like to bump this question up. Somehow the OP has conveniently skated by it. I'm looking forward for an answer.

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RE: To Gor or not to Gor... - 5/9/2009 3:21:41 AM

SIRLOINSTEAK

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Well, let me answer it since I'm so knowledgable in GOR. ;/

Its commonly understood in GOR, that a woman who isn't in chains, is so weak that she truly wants to be in chains. Woman warriors are actually more prized slaves, I believe. higher value... ;/

Anywhose, its prevelant in our current culture to promote women thru sissifying men.....actually brute force? um, guys are naturally stronger than women for a reason....

Now I grant you that GOR is barbaric, and this barbarism is glorified, not cast in a negative light....

There are FREE WOMEN in GOR, but they must work hard to keep their FREEDOM, which is not that easy.......its a constant struggle...according to the author...

Anyhows, this dude wrote many books, all out of print.....its certainly interesting......

And to say that Humanity is completely civil and not barbaric in reality is not really looking at reality, where human slavery is still a world problem.....

Is it my fault she is offering me her servitude for a lifetime for 1 penny? ;/ I prefer it not involve money, but women need to know the guy has the means to make a nest, and money is the way to show it, by all but the most foolish of women.....

Now I like foolish women, mind you, and bucking the idea that money doesn't matter (true love), but practical women are actually pretty hot. Too often women are not practical or logical.....and a logical women will admit she isn't completely logical at all times or as much as a man is capable of, which cries out that a man should consider a woman's opinion, but ultimately his decision would be the logical course to follow because man is more logical.....

Maybe I'm channeling too much of the latest STAR TREK movie......

I do enjoy fantasy, but it is important to differentiate reality from fantasy.....

Women clearly have a harder time of this than men....

Women in my opinion are easy 0-) I prefer harder to get women, make it more of a challenge, don't spread your legs as your first sentence (lets have sex!)....make it the second sentence......

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RE: To Gor or not to Gor... - 5/9/2009 3:26:53 AM

sirsholly

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quote:

Anywhose, its prevelant in our current culture to promote women thru sissifying men.

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RE: To Gor or not to Gor... - 5/9/2009 3:31:51 AM

tazzygirl

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~chuckles

dont get out much?

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RE: To Gor or not to Gor... - 5/9/2009 4:02:48 AM

Malkinius

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Greetings Steak....

I don't know what you are channeling but it certainly isn't anything Gorean outside of IRC, SecondLife and other online play. Spend a year reading the books, reading what the experts on the subject have written and talking to people who live it on a daily basis, then come back and try again.

I am pretty certain it isn't Star Trek. I know some super serious Trekkies and Trekkers. You certainly aren't close to that.

Be well...

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RE: To Gor or not to Gor... - 5/9/2009 4:06:47 AM

Whiplashsmile4

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On a personal note:

I'm all for to Not to GOR, I really ain't got the time to sit and read each and every single GOR book in existence. I actually made it 3/4 of the way through the first book. After about 20 masterbation breaks from the hot reading material. I found myself getting bored with the actual story line.

In terms of things I know about GOR outside of that it's been for the sake of getting a better Understanding of Goreans in the lifestyle. You know reading up about real life human Goreans.

I've made jest of fun of Gor at times, but I don't personally hate people who are into GOR. The third personal speak from Gorean Slave girls sort of gives me the honored warm and fuzzy feeling at times. But after about 30 minutes of it my mind becomes somewhat twisted up and I simply prefer to engage in conversation without Third person speak. Why? Because it starts to make me want to talk in third Person speak as well.

This Sir starts to find himself saying things that he would not else find himself saying otherwise. So this Master/Sir/Daddy requests that girl refrains from third person speak because Sir finds himself saying things back in a manner of third person.

So this Daddy is of the belief that perhaps it's best to leave the word of Gor to others. This Sir is convinced to not to Gor, else he will become a complete freak speaking in third person all the time. This dudes mind is such to not want to be disrespectful towards the Gorean nature, however this Sir does not have have the time and engery to devote to such a task of becoming one with the Gorean ways.

Again, this is just me. It just does strange things to my own mindset.

< Message edited by Whiplashsmile4 -- 5/9/2009 4:07:43 AM >

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RE: To Gor or not to Gor... - 5/9/2009 4:14:57 AM

SIRLOINSTEAK

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

Anywhose, its prevelant in our current culture to promote women thru sissifying men.

maybe I should of made myself more clear.....

I don't like any men thinking its natural to let a woman think she has the upper hand. Well, unless he is paying her (joking).....

Men a naturally stronger than women. Women are naturally attracted to strength and power......

Remember a howard stern show of wrestling, (M) midget vs (F) hot model, (M) midget won....

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RE: To Gor or not to Gor... - 5/9/2009 4:32:14 AM

Whiplashsmile4

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SIRLOINSTEAK

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

Anywhose, its prevelant in our current culture to promote women thru sissifying men.

maybe I should of made myself more clear.....

I don't like any men thinking its natural to let a woman think she has the upper hand. Well, unless he is paying her (joking).....

Men a naturally stronger than women. Women are naturally attracted to strength and power......

Remember a howard stern show of wrestling, (M) midget vs (F) hot model, (M) midget won....

Ummmm.. some women really do have and hold an upper hand at times, regardless of how naturally stronger he is stronger. There's a big difference between physical and mental strength. Also emotions and other things come into play.

What's a fun sight to see is when other Dominants get the upper hand on other Dominants, or a seeing a slave get the upper hand on a Dominant. Leverage!!!

Blackmail, Seduction and such can be an art form.

Okay submissive female is pissed off at male Dominant. The Meals just ain't tasting as good as they used to. Pehaps she becomes sexually withdrawn, just ain't as responsive anymore. Lord, so many little subtle things that can and do occur in day to day.

Smart Dominants, will quickly pick up on this crap and get to the bottom on it!!

There's a big difference between a Happy submissive verses a not so happy submissive.

Well, in this case since you are making this an issue about sex. Big difference between a Happy female and an unhappy one.

If you want to take D/s so seriously to the nth degree, you just might find yourself in a TPE relationship with somebody who sort of bores you to tears after awhile. Lame meals, Lame sex, Lame social interaction.

I'm just sayin... it's best to think about the upper hand being held either way. Women leave perfectly strong men every day, file for divorce and such because they are totally unhappy with the relationship. Has very little to do with strength or power.

La La La... strength or power is not what maintains a D/s relationship. Ummmmm... then again perhaps I have it all wrong. I'm not always right.

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RE: To Gor or not to Gor... - 5/9/2009 4:43:44 AM

tazzygirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4

On a personal note:

I'm all for to Not to GOR, I really ain't got the time to sit and read each and every single GOR book in existence. I actually made it 3/4 of the way through the first book. After about 20 masterbation breaks from the hot reading material. I found myself getting bored with the actual story line.

out of curiosity, which book was this? how old were you when you read it? i never found any of them that sexually hot.

quote:

In terms of things I know about GOR outside of that it's been for the sake of getting a better Understanding of Goreans in the lifestyle. You know reading up about real life human Goreans.

I've made jest of fun of Gor at times, but I don't personally hate people who are into GOR. The third personal speak from Gorean Slave girls sort of gives me the honored warm and fuzzy feeling at times. But after about 30 minutes of it my mind becomes somewhat twisted up and I simply prefer to engage in conversation without Third person speak. Why? Because it starts to make me want to talk in third Person speak as well.

This Sir starts to find himself saying things that he would not else find himself saying otherwise. So this Master/Sir/Daddy requests that girl refrains from third person speak because Sir finds himself saying things back in a manner of third person.

So this Daddy is of the belief that perhaps it's best to leave the word of Gor to others. This Sir is convinced to not to Gor, else he will become a complete freak speaking in third person all the time. This dudes mind is such to not want to be disrespectful towards the Gorean nature, however this Sir does not have have the time and engery to devote to such a task of becoming one with the Gorean ways.

Again, this is just me. It just does strange things to my own mindset.

ah, seems most of your exposure was role play. a shame.

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
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Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: To Gor or not to Gor... - 5/9/2009 5:05:29 AM

Whiplashsmile4

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4

On a personal note:

I'm all for to Not to GOR, I really ain't got the time to sit and read each and every single GOR book in existence. I actually made it 3/4 of the way through the first book. After about 20 masterbation breaks from the hot reading material. I found myself getting bored with the actual story line.

out of curiosity, which book was this? how old were you when you read it? i never found any of them that sexually hot.

quote:

In terms of things I know about GOR outside of that it's been for the sake of getting a better Understanding of Goreans in the lifestyle. You know reading up about real life human Goreans.

I've made jest of fun of Gor at times, but I don't personally hate people who are into GOR. The third personal speak from Gorean Slave girls sort of gives me the honored warm and fuzzy feeling at times. But after about 30 minutes of it my mind becomes somewhat twisted up and I simply prefer to engage in conversation without Third person speak. Why? Because it starts to make me want to talk in third Person speak as well.

This Sir starts to find himself saying things that he would not else find himself saying otherwise. So this Master/Sir/Daddy requests that girl refrains from third person speak because Sir finds himself saying things back in a manner of third person.

So this Daddy is of the belief that perhaps it's best to leave the word of Gor to others. This Sir is convinced to not to Gor, else he will become a complete freak speaking in third person all the time. This dudes mind is such to not want to be disrespectful towards the Gorean nature, however this Sir does not have have the time and engery to devote to such a task of becoming one with the Gorean ways.

Again, this is just me. It just does strange things to my own mindset.

ah, seems most of your exposure was role play. a shame.

Think I was like 14-15 years old at the time, way back a long time ago. It was the very first book in the series. A paperback that was my uncles. At the time most of my Fictional Fantasy attention was drawn into AD&D and such. I was drawn to kink at an early age. In terms of Role play, I've only chatted or talked with Gorean slave girls who were trying maintain Gorean protocal. I've considered Role Playing Gor out some.

With regards to moral code of conduct I'm certain there is/are some excellent things. However, I'm not exactly condusive material to the adherence to some practices.

In regards to Gor books being sexual hot, the sexual novelity of it wore off quickly
with me. Think I was more drawn to building my porn stash of Penthouse, Hustlers,
Swanks and etc up. The Visual wanking material stuff.

Seriously, I like and enjoy science fiction and fantasy stuff. I just was never able
to fully get into Gor. The first (the first book in the series) actually ended up boring
me. Hence why I only made it 3/4 of the way through it.

Besides, I've always been more drawn to the notions of owning a Elf slave girl
over having a Gorean slave girl. An Arabian Slave Girl is hot too. Then there's
Gypsy Belly Dancers. Yummy. Even Vampire girls spark my interests as well.
There's a list of different things that attack my attention far more besides GOR.

I'm a little too Eclectic in my tastes for my own good at times. It actually makes
me some what flexiable when it comes to things, which is why I find it difficult
to adhere to any one specific thing. I'm a sort of mix and match fusion type of
guy. Hope this anwers your question for you.

(in reply to tazzygirl)

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Post #: 80