RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? (Full Version)

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barelynangel -> RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? (5/24/2009 3:31:29 PM)

Lindsey you want to know the secret of being a woman -- its NOT a thinking thing, its a BEING thing. Which is why you never have two women who are exactly the same.

Talk is cheap, perhaps if you stop worrying about TELLING everyone how much of a woman you are and then trying to define to women who have been so all their lives what they are and simply BE a woman, you may find yourself being accepted AS A WOMAN.

But i guess that would take all the drama and misery out of your life. To me the very fact you state you know MORE about being a woman than women who have been so all their lives tells me --- you STILL don't get it.



MissDominae -> RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? (5/24/2009 3:40:49 PM)

Hello Lady Ellen (and hi everyone)

I thought I'd share a true story as well.   It didn't happen to me but I know the couple it did happen to very well and have no reason to disbelieve them.

In Australia each year, as part of our "Pride March" celebrations, we have the annual Midsumma Festival.   Picture this: -

We have a couple, both of transsexed background and both very much in love with each other, able to love themselves and complete in their identities.   A radical Lesbian group was selling a magazine/newsletter to raise funds for an upcoming event; in the spirit of supporting others the woman of the couple decided to buy the magazine.   She was refused, on the basis that (paraphrasing here) that their magazine was only on sale to women, and that she wasn't a woman and no amount of transition, hormones or surgery would ever make her one.   Rather bemused, she went back to her partner and told him what had happened.

He, having been a very butch lesbian before transition, decided to go and buy the magazine to make a point about the foolishness of discrimination, only to be told (paraphrasing again) we won't sell you one either because you are't a woman anymore~!

So .... in following the same protocols of transition for the same reason - an incongruence between body morphology and gender identity - according to this group it seems you can become NOT a woman by transition but can never become a woman.

It is this sort of illogic that leads to people like the OP being hurt and the rest of us left scratching our heads.   That people who are so vehemently discriminatory are out there cannot be denied, but those of that ilk are, in my experience, very much in the minority.   Many of those who offer rejection do so for reasons along the lines of what (the very wise, eloquent and most pleasant) Lady Ellen has spoken of; unfortunate experiences of some sort which have led to a jaundiced viewpoint of the entire Trans-community based on the actions on only a few of its members.   The best way to deal with this is through communication and conciliation and showing that we are all individuals deserving of individual consideration, assessment and respect.

Whenever we label an entire community, or segment of community, as "X" we should realise we are wrong.   It is rare for any community to be completely homogenous in its views; every group I have ever encountered has both its conciliators and its lunatic fringe to go along with its wider majority of 'just folk' .

Not every white southerner is a racist KKK member.
Not every Moslem person is a terrorist.
Not all lesbians hate women of trans background.

and so on.

We can all learn to live together and learn to respect each other if we communicate and listen.   I generally get along with most communities here in Australia.   I am Intersex/Trans yet am well liked in the lesbian community because I took the time and made the effort to slowly introduce myself and bridge gaps in understanding with education.   Likewise, I am Pagan yet co-exist happily with the local Christian community, to the extent where I have given the weekly 'sermon' at one Church gathering, speaking on issues of tolerance and diversity.  

I don't mention these things to make myself seem important; believe me, I'm no-one special at all - any one of us can do this if we are willing to try.   We can choose to see initial resistance as a barrier to rage against, a challenge to overcome or an opportunity to build bridges of understanding.   I choose the latter.   It won't always work, but it is always worth the effort.   The only question that remains for the OP, and for any of us, is "Are you willing to MAKE that effort?"

May I take this opportunity to again thank the many posters who, through their generous spirit, intelligent and compassionate comments and depths of understanding and wisdom, have made this a thread which I have no doubt will go on to assist many more people than just the Original Poster.

Blessings to you all.



LadyEllen -> RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? (5/24/2009 3:42:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DreamGoddess666

If my feeling that I'm more of a woman than those who don't consider me a real woman just because of a physical birth defect I USED to have is making you tired of my attitude, perhaps you need to look inside yourself and take a bit of spiritual inventory.


Lets try a little exercise here - pick yourself a list of (say) five female posters here that you by now have some acquaintance with (or you could pick five women celebrities or other women you know).

List them 1-5 on the measure of "real womanhood" - which is more of a real woman than the one preceding.

Next, add yourself to that list - where do you come in the places, 1-6?

Tricky? It should be. Yet you are here proposing that its possible for one woman to be more of a woman than another.

My feeling is that you are hurting and striking out as anyone else would. The majority here - even the ones who you feel have attacked you - are good people. If they werent, they wouldnt be spending their time trying to give you what is for the most part, good counsel.

I have to go to bed now - early morning meeting - but the one last bit of advice I have is to contemplate what has been said here, sort your shit out, get some grief counselling (or read it on the web) - and spend enough time doing that such that you are no longer so hung up on this stuff.

My goodness gal! You pass very well! Dont let this shit hold you back too long!

E



JstAnotherSub -> RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? (5/24/2009 3:42:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stella41b

A woman is a mature female. How she became a mature female is merely one point in her journey through life.


that is just an awesome statement.  i wish i had thought of it!



thornhappy -> RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? (5/24/2009 4:02:07 PM)

Nope, changed my mind!




GreedyTop -> RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? (5/24/2009 7:10:12 PM)

*adores Stella,. Lady E and MissD*



samboct -> RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? (5/24/2009 7:48:29 PM)

I'm going to throw out some comments on the mental health stuff which was posted earlier in this thread.  I'm feeling too lazy to go and find the post- but the upshot was that Lindsey commented that she would not be able to see a mental health professional till July.  I'd point out that if someone is acutely suicidal- waiting for several months may certainly take the strain off the system, since there will be one less individual seeking help.

1)  Go find a shrink who is motivated to see you sooner rather than later.*  Again, I'll recommend using the website for the American Psychoanalytic Association.
2)  Ignore any shrink that focuses on TG issues.  Your issues aren't TG issues- my guess is you have some type of untreated depression/anxiety.  The TG stuff is a red herring.
3)  The DSM is not a great resource.  The shrinks that have compiled it have a vested interest in working with big pharma rather than talk therapy and tend to use pills which have short term effects as well as a number of side effects.  In some cases meds work well.  In other cases- talk therapy works well.  Given that you seem to be able to communicate reasonably well, I'd bet on talk therapy.
4)  To most of the posters....my $0.02 is that psychiatry from a chat forum is a waste of time.  While it may be well meaning, it may also have the opposite of the desired effect.  This person needs professional help- not a pat on a shoulder from virtual companions.  One can be supportive and make good suggestions (and there have been more than a few on this thread!) and accomplish very little.  Time to take a step back and evaluate what's going on.

*Our mental health system is broken.  Let me caution you about mentioning that you are suicidal to a shrink who you do not trust.  Some of them will view this as their legal obligation to hospitalize you, even if it is not in your best interests as a patient.  Also note that I'm taking you at your word that you're suicidal.  If you're not, and that was just a bit of hyperbole, then waiting till July isn't such a big deal- but you should make sure that whoever sees you as a shrink has got some good training- I don't think a social worker is going to hack it.

Sam



aravain -> RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? (5/24/2009 8:10:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: samboct
Let me caution you about mentioning that you are suicidal to a shrink who you do not trust.  Some of them will view this as their legal obligation to hospitalize you, even if it is not in your best interests as a patient.


This was important for me to quote and follow up with...

this is why I wouldn't tell *any* shrink that you don't know well (at least a few close-together sessions in) that you are feeling, or have recently (between sessions) felt suicidal if you are reasonably sure you will not hurt yourself. Any good therapist during this get-to-know-you period WILL commit you because... they don't know you. They don't know, yet, if these thoughts are just that - thoughts - or if they're plans. They'll try to talk you into going willingly, but WILL do it 'forcibly' if they have to.

And, yeah, APA certification (especially for those with Gender Dysphoria of any type) is where you're gonna want to go, preferably with a degree in clinical psychology, NOT social work. Any other is not going to be able to tell the difference between TG "issues," and any other "issues" (which may be completely unrelated) such as unipolar depression, manic depression, or any others.



JuliaGreenleaf -> RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? (5/25/2009 9:24:38 AM)

To MissDominae SPECIFICALLY (and I missed this one while humorously posting swedish chef clips.)

I am actually not aware of a local gender program that still uses the fairly outdated but reasonable HBSOC Standards of Care as written. I live in Toronto, home to one of the most infamous gender clinics on the planet - CAMH - aka the Clarke Institute. If you'd like further information and proof as to why they are really so bad, please go tsroadmap.com

The imposition of outside standards in trans people's lives has been a hideous source of oppression for the last 50 years or so. While in the beginning, doctors would help people adjust to living in the role of a new gender sensibly and well when gender roles were markably different , the whole process has become overly encumbered and medicalized. Many people have taken to going to Thailand simply to simplify the process and get on with their lives. Changing one's legal gender status is largely reliant on the proper processing of documents, and local laws, not adherance to the largely psychiatric SOC that put all the real burden of transitioning squarely on the trans man or women themselves. The SOC are largely a set of criteria for restricting access to medical proceedures to limit and regulate trans lives. In obtaining access to hormones, surgery, ect - you are largely on your own for jumping though these hoops and recieve no 'help' from the so called medical experts. Someone who is together, competant, and has read and studied what to do from one of a number of well run websites set up by her sister TS is ok. If people do not have their lives together in this process, then obviously bad things are going to happen. In my opinion, this happens largely because of society's prejudice and discrimination towards those who present a differently gendered appearance. It's largely the duty of the transperson to dodge this as best as he or she can.

In this day and age the SOC are largely a formality, or useless. Most people I know who have been successful in transitioning have somehow started hormones before they were 'supposed' to . This can be vital to your appearance ect, for the early stages of transition, especially if you are young. If someone's body is in a state where negative secondary sex characteristics can be prevented from developing (ie male pattern baldness, more hair, ect.) by use of hormones, and that person is sure they are trans, intervention is vital. Most trans people who pass, go stealth, fit in and are accepted tend to be in this category. The unfortunate ones who are left visible are the people who are held back and prevented by this so called process of 'care' that you speak of. They are the ones that bear the unfair majority of the burden of discrimination every time someone goes looking for a transperson to put down. They are the ones that over the years all too often have led the fight for liberty in our community (Actually fairly well in my community, see a woman  called Suzan Gapka).



JuliaGreenleaf -> RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? (5/25/2009 9:30:06 AM)

Barelynangel - Lol . Very typical cisgender privilage speaking here. I have the biology - you don't. Miss Bio-is-besty. Alpha female looking down on deficient beta female. Not fun...




Lockit -> RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? (5/25/2009 9:38:46 AM)

You are missing the whole point of Barelynangel's point, but that doesn't surprise me.  You seem to hear and see what you want that might prove a point.

The competition between this woman and that woman is clearly an issue and not because one is born one way or another... If one is really born a woman but has different parts so to speak... aren't they still a woman?  They get corrective surgery to help, just like any other corrective surgery and yet.. still... they feel as though the world see's them differently and some do... but some don't.  If you lump all those that don't in with those that do... you have a problem because you think everyone does and you have a point to prove.

Sometimes in this thread... preaching to the puplit is a forefront.

Very few said anything about being less a woman than someone else.  They commented more on an attitude or issue that people found hard to deal with.



JuliaGreenleaf -> RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? (5/25/2009 9:39:00 AM)

I find myself agreeing with Lady Ellen, and not reaching for my trans liberation protest slogans.

While we can state clearly - yes, this attitude is discriminatory - yes, there is cisgender privilage imposed over transgender people in our lives.
Everyone largely has the problem of dealing with their soul and becoming responsible, happy, and healthy to be with other people. Lady Ellen is right - you are very pretty and passable, and stealth is a good option to deal with a negative world. Personally, myself, for councelling, I'd advice a sensitive local lesbian lifestyle therapist, chocolate, and a copy of the old xmen cartoons on youtube. We cannot change the world today or tomorrow . By speaking out about our experiences and writing, we can make things somewhat better. Ultimately, I write towards this end - to try and change minds and hearts.




JuliaGreenleaf -> RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? (5/25/2009 10:03:32 AM)

Angelica3 wrote ..

I have given this thread a lot of thought.

I realise that for all of my empathy, I will never know what it is like to be in the OP's shoes.
I don't understand the kind of courage she had: to be willing to travel to a different country and have surgery so that her appearance matched her inner self and to do that alone.
Nor do I understand the depth of the price she paid for making that choice: losing her family and friends.

Lindsey,

Some lesbians will discriminate against you because you used to have a penis.
And those that do would not be compatible with you anyway.
In other words, you really aren't missing out on anything.

But the good news is that some lesbians will see you for who you are.
You just haven't met them yet

Julia:

Thank you :) - just simply that.

I started out supporting her on this thread to try and represent what i know of trans-liberation theory and now we are trying to change some of the mistaken notions people have about us. As trans go, i'm not a hard 'cisgender oppression, Transliberation now, deconstruct gender' activist/feminist that i find is in vogue these days where i live.. I'm a soft gentle femme who supports the cause because she knows it is right and is sick of seeing her sisters forced into sucking cock at the local tranny bar as their only valid form of making a living. I don't hold to remembering a thousand injustices every day - i simply choose to highlight a few to try and change minds about trans people, because here and now, in this day and age, someone needs to do it.

Thank you.




Lockit -> RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? (5/25/2009 10:04:04 AM)

I see more titles being put on people by those who most resent the titles.  I don't define or title my transgendered friends... they are who they present they are to me and I call them by their name and gender they refere to.  I don't see them as transgendered.  I see them as who they are.

Repeatedly Julia you have made reference to cisgender and sometimes in not a nice light.  Almost in an insulting manner.  You separate us women by transgendered and cisgendered and I find that as insulting or discriminating or divisive as those you claim to fight against.  I don't call you anything but Julia... why do you call women born without the transgender challenges titles?  If we are all women... let's just call ourselves women and stop the division.  Isn't that what you ultimately want?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender



samboct -> RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? (5/25/2009 11:06:01 AM)

"Personally, myself, for councelling, I'd advice a sensitive local lesbian lifestyle therapist, chocolate, and a copy of the old xmen cartoons on youtube."

Strong disagreement here.  Reasons-

1)  The issues Lindsey is having didn't arise because of the surgery she went through- they existed prior.
2)  I'm guessing that Lindsey thought the surgery would offer a solution to some problems she was having with relationships- and clearly it hasn't.  This means that the problems she's having are at best, tangential to the surgery.  My guess is that they're largely unrelated.
3)  Shrinks that have a narrow identification such as lesbian lifestyle will try to fit Lindsey's problem into the round hole that they know- even if Lindsey's problem is that she's a square peg.

Note- sounds like me and Aravain are on the same page- I'm speaking from some first hand experience- sounds like Aravain is as well.

Note- the APA (American Psychoanalytic Association) should be able to find you a shrink even if you're a low fee case.  If very low fee, you may have to go to an analytic institute where an analyst in training would take your case.  This analyst in training would be supervised by a more senior person, so you would still receive good care.  Alternatively, they should know the competent mental health people in your area.

Sam



JuliaGreenleaf -> RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? (5/25/2009 11:07:23 AM)

Thanks for linking cisgender :)

Deep down in my heart I wish I didn't have to, and I'm going to stop. I 'm mostly standing in for the Julia Seranos of the world, the hard core gender theorists who are not here to explain how BAD the situation for trans people has been for the last 50 years or so, and how much attitudes really need to change.
I tend to refer with harsh terms when harsh terms are used first against us trans people - there was some pretty firey stuff thrown around back there. Let's face it - some people like, almost enjoy clinging to their prejudices about trans people despite decent arguements to try and say look - we really are telling the truth.
At times I choose to fight fire with fire - give back a bit of the derision that gets flung in our direction for being trans.
The core arguement is this - "you are natal - this gives you a level of privilage that we as trans do not enjoy."
It needs to be said. Stated clearly. I live in my city's queer community, and believe me I do not argue this point with anyone outside this forumn. Usually i just wander around quietly.
I saw a trans girl in pain, getting beat on for just being herself. Admittedly, she was a bit sad and heartbroken, and a bit whiney. Some of the stuff that got thrown at her was totally prejudiced and unfair. My motive was showing her that she was not alone. I felt so happy when she finally got strong and angry and gave Lotussong a good growl. Angelica3 spoke up and said - 'well , really , i accept and support her'.
so, peace be :)



JuliaGreenleaf -> RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? (5/25/2009 11:16:23 AM)

Samboct - this proceeds with the understanding that especially in small towns, any psychotherapist you choose would not choose to make a BIG DEAL (tm) about the fact you are trans and generally give you far more grief than you'd ever deserve otherwise, while actually refusing or being unable to do anything useful.

It sounded to me that she was largely suffering from the 'so I transitioned and everyone treats me badly because they know i am ts and are bigotted' blues - a situation not her fault, not due to any internal chemical malfuction - just simply due to the people around her treating her badly. Admittedly - some shock and misery here.
The usual trans solution is actually stealth.

I generally talk to people in the community who are friendly if i want to work something out - or have historically. Most lesbians in my area are actually trans-positive enough that this is worth it.
I find that at heart I am a heterosexual submissive woman. This has lead me to simply work out a lot of things by reading on the net, and meditating quietly. I don't think I could discuss a lot of that with anyone other than Dominant, let alone local members of my community. It just doesn't work.



philosophy -> RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? (5/25/2009 11:48:19 AM)

FR

.......so if i think someone who is transgendered is acting like a whiny person, i can't possibly be thinking she's a whiny person? somehow i have to be holding the fact of her transgender against her?
Hmmm, i think it isn't me who is focussing on gender issues.

We're all human first. Gender, colour, religion, arseholiness, righteousness, height, weight, political persuasion, gender bonking preference, hairiness, baldiness, accent, whatever......they're all secondary. i refuse to treat anyone, for any reason, as if they're only the secondary effect. The OP has been whiny and rejected good advice for spurious reasons. My opinion of that is the same regardless of what bits she was born with, or how they've been fiddled with since.



barelynangel -> RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? (5/25/2009 12:20:28 PM)

quote:

Barelynangel - Lol . Very typical cisgender privilage speaking here. I have the biology - you don't. Miss Bio-is-besty. Alpha female looking down on deficient beta female. Not fun...


Bursts out laughing -- i have no clue what cisgender is however, let's clarify what i am -- i am a woman, i was born with chromosomes with XX in them instead of XY and i was born with all the parts generally women have. I am not ashamed of that or the life i have led that formed me as a woman from a girl and i refuse to have someone like you try and take that away from me because you refuse to acknowledge what WE are --- we are women period. I never have questioned it, i am not like other women because no woman is the same, we all are TYPES of women. You are acting as if i somehow have to give up or not be proud of the fact of what i am biologicaly all because poor you weren't born as you wish to be. So i have to give up something special to me -- I WAS BORN A WOMAN -- simply because you weren't. Sorry but there IS a difference and its not a negative thing its simply life.

You will NEVER be a woman like naturally born women. I am sorry, you won't be. I will never be a redhead like a naturally born redhead. I will never be a short person like a naturally short person. IF this causes you distress then you still DON'T GET IT. If you take this as a negative remark, you don't get it. PEOPLE are not the same.

What i don't get is why transgener people (well MOST of them) don't embrace who they are -- and what i mean by this is yeah you were BORN a MAN. Do you know how amazing that is, the experience and opportunity you have as a Man to then be a woman? I guess that is the hardest thing i don't get, why are you trying to BE something you aren't? You are a TRANSGENDER PERSON. Why not embrace that instead of fighting with people that YOU are a woman? You aren't, you have XY chromosomes, you grew up with a penis, you had people in your life view you, treat you, and have you exist AS A MAN. You decided that wasn't righ for you so you decided to become a woman. You took hormones, and dressed and studied and tried to figure out what being a woman is so you can say you are JUST LIKE naturally born women. WHY would you want to do that? YOU AREN'T. There is NO naturally born woman who will ever have the experiences you have been allowed to have.

So you can try and flame me like you did above -- but you know -- this need to BE seen as NATURALLY BORN WOMEN honestly flabbergasts me. You are trying to advocate sameness, now in terms of law -- sure i can see what you are doing, but not in sense of self. WHY would you want to take such a unique concept that you are and disregard a HUGE part of yourself-- and whether you or any transperson wants to admit it -- being born a Man to the transition and so forth --- i fail to see why lindsey and yourself are soo desperate to be seen LIKE naturally born women. You aren't and what i am trying to say is THAT SHOULD BE OKAY. You have something naturally born women will NEVER be alowed to experience.

i am a naturally born woman. I have lived my life understanding that, knowing that, being perfectly content and happy as such. My life has been effected by that and i have become the person i am because of my being born a woman. My life was formed beginning the day i was born as a female.

You wanted to become a woman after being born a Man, great. But don't try and diminish what I am to appease your own sense of insecurity at not being what i or others are. Are you a woman yes, are you different from naturally born women YES, am i different from a transperson -- YES. There is NOTHING wrong with acknowleging the differences and understanding that there are differences and the differences SHOULDN'T DIMINSH anyone being a woman.

You can stamp your feet or imply that i am somehow wrong, but you know what, i will never agree that you are like a naturally born woman. The difference between you and i, is you take this negatively and as a concept of where i am saying you aren't a woman --- and you know what -- you are wrong. Perhaps you should be proud of your differences and the experiences you have been allowed instead of resenting it.

angel



MissDominae -> RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? (5/25/2009 12:34:46 PM)

quote:

I'm a soft gentle femme who supports the cause because she knows it is right and is sick of seeing her sisters forced into sucking cock at the local tranny bar as their only valid form of making a living.


Oh please~!

Julia, I appreciate your passion.   I appreciate your determination to be part of the "Cause".   I *DON'T* appreciate hyperbolic comments like the one quoted and believe them to be wholly unhelpful, inflammatory and inaccurate.

Lets see...... Stella, myself, Jenny Boylan, Dana Beyer, Calpurnia Addams, Andrea James, Marci Bowers, Georgina Beyer, Karen Gurney, Jessica Orsini, Jenny Bailey. Kimberley Rae, Kayleen White, Rachel Wallbanks, Michele Taylor.   In that group we have lawyers, surgeons, teachers, Professors, Advocates, engineers, senior public servants, writers and a host of other talents and skills.   In most of these cases they did not reach their position of status until AFTER their transition.

We're not all 'sucking cock in Tranny bars' and very few of those who do are 'forced' to do so - it is a choice they make.   For me it is those whom the likes of Bailey and Blanchard label as autogynaephilic and not suitable for surgery who are making that choice; those for whom this is a matter of sex, not identity.   Most of us leave the self pity crap behind us and just get on with being normal people.   My little list above is just those I know personally or know of through publicity who have shown clearly that life as a normal, happy and successful woman IS possible for those born transsexed if we just put down the placards and the slogans and the labels and the huge chips some of us carry shoulder-high.

I agree the HBSOC are outdated and the Clarke was a travesty.   I even agree that the system in your country fails you.   I don't agree that the response to this should be to go on a pity party, start attacking the 'Cisgendered' now that we have found a label to use against them, become a cock-sucking Tranny bar worker and so on.   Neither did the women I mentioned in my list; probably why they are successful.

Julia, I'm not young, slim and beautiful.   I'm a47 year old, roly poly and quite plain woman.   To say that one must be pre-emptive and go on hormones without waiting and transition young or else and travel the high seas because it is the only way is arrant nonsense (and I know I am paraphrasing you not quoting you directly).   The system - such as it is - creaks and groans and lurches but gets there in the end.   Thousands pass through it each year; most do not end up sucking cock in Tranny bars.   Most are not young, slim and beautiful and focused solely on looks as a determinant on whether they 'pass' or not.   Most are just plain and simple folk who were born with a medical condition, sought treatment, faced issues, overcame them with help and, whether gorgeous or just plain like me,  moved on to average, happy lives.

I know you are trying to help and support Lindsey.   I respect that.   I've been trying to help her too and so have many others.   What I WON'T do however, and what I believe you may be doing, is becoming psychologically an 'Enabler' through your comments; a person who through their words proides justification for one with psycho/emotional issues to continue wallowing in pity as an alternative to seeking help.   Lindsey doesn't need that.   Putting folk offside by comments against "cisgender" people is - in my very humble opinion - not helpful either.  

You are an intelligent woman but also a young one.   Your light burns brightly and its fuel is vast exuberance and passion.   Mine burns lower but with a steady flame and is fuelled by experience won over the last 20+ years as a transitioned woman.   Whatever the source, the world needs our light but will turn away from the light if it is presented in such a way that challenges them, insults them or causes them angst.   A light that helps no-one to see wastes fuel.  

I'll be interested to see what responses this post elicits.

Blessings ......... MD



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