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RE: Prejudice about long-distance D/s - what do you thi... - 7/13/2009 5:24:30 AM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
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quote:

Might I remind people that there are actually real life couples that sit in the same room together and can be miles apart?
sad, but very true. Welcome back Gauge 

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RE: Prejudice about long-distance D/s - what do you thi... - 7/13/2009 6:55:49 AM   
CreativeDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Of course, that may be because of the time I spent getting to know about ALL of them...family, work, hopes, dreams, fears...and continued asking about those things in addition to carrying on conversations related to D/s and BDSM.

Blasphemy!! You can't "know" someone without being able to touch their ear lobes and/or smell their pheromones!
Communication is so last century's fantasy, dude. But, give me a nice big palmful of someone's armpit and I'll tell you their life story.

This...and your two posts before this...are soooooooooooo right on, man...how could I have EVER thought that what I have going on in my head, my heart, my soul about someone was worth anything?  Must have physical contact for anything to be "real", for it to be "real" submission or dominance.  Got it...

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RE: Prejudice about long-distance D/s - what do you thi... - 7/13/2009 7:00:41 AM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
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From: Quietville
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quote:

what I have going on in my head, my heart, my soul about someone was worth anything?

the value would be "priceless"


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RE: Prejudice about long-distance D/s - what do you thi... - 7/13/2009 7:04:07 AM   
stella41b


Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline 		FR

The validity of any relationship rests solely on the two people involved and what they think and feel about each other. How the relationship is conducted is neither here nor there and I'm not one for making quality judgments on relationships of other people of which I'm not a part of.

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RE: Prejudice about long-distance D/s - what do you thi... - 7/13/2009 7:04:13 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

It strikes me that another big issue here is the word "know". Lots of folks don't really mean the word "know" when they say it. They're not talking about actually having a great wealth of information about someone that you'd accumulate through deep conversations and emotional sharing. They mean certain coincidental events that match up perfectly.

Like, someone saying "he knows me so well" because, when she's emotionally traumatized she needs someone to hold her tightly, rock her back and forth and hum softly in her ear...and he just happens to be the sort of person who naturally reacts to their partner being severely emotionall hurt by doing just that. Enough of these small moments and the word "know" starts getting thrown around quite easily. People want to feel that they "are known" by someone or "know" someone.

This is both a reason why one type of relationship isn't necessarily any more "real" than the next (based on the parameters being discussed) and also a reason why physically near relationships have a more preferable bias (because it increases the amount of different ways these moments can happen).
Nicely said, Nihilus.  Let's face it, physical proximity to a person makes the whole "reach out and touch" thing much easier to accomplish.  In your example above, let's extend that to a submissive being hurt during some instance of play...the dominant she is playing with sees she is hurt and pulls her into her arms and cradles her, murmuring soothing words of consolation/apology/encouragement.  She begins to feel better BECAUSE she happens to be a submissive who needs that physical contact with the dominant for reassurance when things go awry.  So, it can become an incident of "he KNOWS me...he KNOWS just what to do when I am upset".  BUT does he really?  Or did he bank on the odds that most women like to be comforted/cradled in a ...safe...physical way after being hurt?  But what if she'd been one of those female submissives...fewer in number, just as in the vanilla world...who DIDN'T want physical contact after an incident gone wrong?  What if she was one of those who wanted to be left alone...not touched...so she could be in her own world, processing it?  Then this same "knowing" dominant would not have been quite so knowing, would he?

Physical proximity does lead to the opportunity for more of these "knowing" moments to occur and can result in one feeling an "emotional connection" that the other partner does not feel.  In past threads, other dominants have noted that while they allow their submissives to play with others, it is generally with the rule in place that they can share their bodies with others but not their hearts and minds.  I feel the same way that these dominants do.  It is a reminder/warning/whatever you wish to call it to their submissives to remember how physical interaction, especially of a D/s and BDSM nature can bring intensity, and occasionally mis-interpretation, of feelings into play and these emotions...if not viewed in their proper context...can bring havoc to the primary dynamic.  Thus the requirement of monogamy of heart and mind and soul even while engaging in sharing of the body. 

< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 7/13/2009 7:23:16 AM >

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RE: Prejudice about long-distance D/s - what do you thi... - 7/13/2009 8:18:00 AM   
Andalusite


Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline 		CD, I think those kinds of things are learned over time. You're right that some of them can be learned over a distance, but I would have a hard time trusting that I had been able to sufficiently convey that kind of information in that medium to translate into physical play in person. I'm pretty self-aware, and able to express things well, but a big part of it *is* body language. If someone has *never* done S/M or bondage physically, and has only done webcam and typing fantasies, how could they possibly know themselves well enough to communicate effectively in that area?

Gauge, I don't think you're fake, or that the emotions aren't genuine, but I do hope you take things a bit slowly once you meet in person and get a chance to play with each other.

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RE: Prejudice about long-distance D/s - what do you thi... - 7/13/2009 8:37:54 AM   
lobodomslavery


Posts: 2477
Joined: 1/17/2008
Status: offline 		Long Distance? Far be it from me to judge anyone, i wont. i ll only say this: Unless you meet the right person it can turn into a relationship more about desire for money on Domme's part than anything else. Yeah i ve done long distance and in my experience it is used by money Dommes a lot.  im sure there are Dommes who will do long distance without the desire for money as one of their prerequisites but i have not met them on this site
kevin

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Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Prejudice about long-distance D/s - what do you thi... - 7/13/2009 9:40:46 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

CD, I think those kinds of things are learned over time.


... or not. Sometimes, I think it's difficult to ever really know a person, face-to-face or otherwise.

I've lived with my companion, SR, for a LONG time... well over a decade. That should be sufficient time to get to 'know' someone, right? Well, things -still- crop up, even for us, where the response another person -prefers- and the response I am inclined to -give- just don't mesh up... and we've reached that stage in our relationship where all of the concessions we made early on to the way that the other person preferred things are starting to chip away like layers of paint in high humidity. Just as an example, I absolutely -adore- curried EVERYTHING. I was under the impression, after over a DECADE of cooking for my companion, that -she- ALSO liked curried EVERYTHING... if it had my special coconut curry sauce, it was good eats, regardless of what it was, with the two exceptions of lamb and goat, which she is allergic to no matter how they are prepared. I've made curries with everything from simple veggies to eggs, to fish to kangaroo... So yesterday, I had a beautiful piece of -very mild- sockeye salmon that a friend brought down from fishing in Alaska, and I decided to make a salmon curry. My companion was out shopping when I started cooking, and when she came in the house, she said "OMG, that STINKS. I'm not eating that!" I said, "But it's CURRY, and it's GOOD!" to which she'd responded "You know I don't like fish in my curry! I don't even like fish, period! " Now after 12 years, I knew no such thing... but what had happened is that, for over a decade, when I'd made fish, she'd never said "I don't like fish", and she'd NEVER turned down my curry. Apparently, she hadn't -liked- some of the curries I made (including my previous versions of whitefish, shrimp, or salmon curry) but she'd never come right out and SAID so... so I kept thinking she LIKED it.

Sometimes, people change. Sometimes relationships change. Sometimes you can be in the same house with someone and cook the meals for over a -decade- and not know that your companion doesn't like fish!

Dame Calla


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RE: Prejudice about long-distance D/s - what do you thi... - 7/13/2009 9:48:05 AM   
Mercnbeth


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In a long distance relationship, when the internet is down, is that considerd having a partner hospitalized in a coma? Is the deletion of all photos and email a long distance divorce? Is hitting 'Alt-Ctrl-Delete' equated to euthanasia anywhere?

There is no doubt that people get something out of a relationship with someone who they have never met. The brain is magnificent at creating dialog. Whether with a make-believe 'friend' or a persona mentally generated from internet contact. The contact is always saying the right things, always there, always saying and doing whatever the brain needs satisfy it at the time. Between sessions, the partner is always in tune with your needs. Unlike what is commonly assumed on threads, reading minds IS possible. The strictest Dom doesn't have that same ability and control over a person seen regularly in person. The most mailable, self denigrating, automaton, submissive can't act preemptively from thoughts not expressed in words typed or spoken. 'SMACK!' typed bold and black can not convey the intercourse of an exchange between partners. Mutual masturbation shared via web-cam, isn't intercourse. It's not a waste of time. It isn't worse/better. It isn't bad, or good. It should never get in the way of real life experiences. It isn't life.


That said, there isn't a person I know who isn't in a long distance relationship. As I type, I'm 6.8 miles from beth. When the distance extends beyond arms length that's my definition of long distance. Maybe the issue isn't distance, but time. Separated for days, weeks, months, years; the ability to exchange sentiment and information is made easier by internet and phone communication, but given the option would anyone seek it instead of a touch? Given the option, one second of touching fingertips is preferable to a week long cyber chat. I'd submit that comparatively more 'information' is exchanged in that one second.

Tomorrow she leaves for the east coast, longER distance, but not pragmatically different. Feeling the lost tomorrow when separated is debilitating. Were we so inclined to do so, IMing, or Webcaming, would generate more frustration, not less; Friday's homecoming not made sweeter.

Distance between partners sucks. To me it is a constant, like the speed of light; time and distance, doesn't change the value. The value comes as a product of both. Maybe it's just my warped sense of cynicism, but without meeting, without any hope of meeting, you create a hollow shell of a relationship. Beyond the distance where a touch is possible your relationship is 'REAL'; but much of the gaps, like what would it feel to kiss, hug, touch, make love to, are all self assumptions. Is that "prejudice" or a reflection of reality?

You can 'kill' electronically generated images and dialog. It is much more difficult if not impossible, to create, or kill, the memory of a touch.

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RE: Prejudice about long-distance D/s - what do you thi... - 7/13/2009 9:51:12 AM   
JonnieBoy


Posts: 1468
Joined: 4/22/2009
From: Cymru
Status: offline 		What do I think ? Prejudice is the correct term for SOME of the content of posts here, so it clearly exists.

That the prejudice belongs to others ... best place for it.

Of those who harbour prejudice ... ignorant (see, I CAN be "tactful" ... )

I do wonder what a certain poster here would make of MY situation, but not enough to be bothered with the typing involved. Besides, I'm busy "playing online" with my wife at the moment

Pirate

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RE: Prejudice about long-distance D/s - what do you thi... - 7/13/2009 10:23:38 AM   
beargonewild


Posts: 22716
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KaityK

If you're not 'playing online' then what are you doing? Because you're not playing in real life are you?  I appreciate where you're coming from but I have to admit (and I'm sorry) I can't take online/long-distance people seriously.  It just doesn't make any sense and I can't see how it can be fulfilling at all.  I need all senses to be fulfilled not just hearing promises and seeing stuff on a screen.  But, each to their own I guess. Just wish online only people would use some kind of disclaimer when posting on forums so that the real life players know that they've never felt what it's like to submit and that their relationship is almost entirely in their head.




My first impulse was to react on pure emotion at this though I decided nah....because I'd just be reacting to emotions instead and that doesn't do me any good. Instead I'll relate a situation I am in and thus put it out here for judgement/debate.

Very few who know me realize that for the past 3 years, I've been engaged in a daddy/son dynamic which I've been acting as a friend/mentor/adviser to another. I first got to know my boy when I was still collared and he was being considered as a potential addition to the house. When that failed, we resumed communication when I was back in Canada and settled.

Here's a few facts:

- we engage in regular conversations via internet and phone
- we have never met
- I advise, instruct, be there when he has personal problems,
- I am his friend and a person he can turn to when he has a crisis
- last night he called and will be visiting my area for a few days to attend a wedding of his brother. He refused to stay with family because he chose to spend most of his time with me.
- these are excerpts to an offline message he sent this morning: *I WANT DADDY TO HAVE FULL CONTROL OF ME* * bond his son to him for good* * that's what i want finally Daddy,to really bond with you*

Okay so we do not have a relationship which is considered standard or "normal", we had forged a type of relationship that has lasted for three years now, that is based upon trust and respect. Two years ago I could have said I want my boy with me and he would've moved 1500 miles to be with me. The main reason why I didn't was both he and I aren't ready to co-habitate together. The thing is....relationships take many forms and not always necessary where both people are physically together.

Now if anyone deems it fair to say I am unfair and I am not a real life player...so be it. If you need absolute confirmation that I do engage in WIITWD in real life, then just ask several people here who know me and met me in Orlando, I can even supply the name of my former owner as he has a profile here on cm. After knowing this, judge away...makes no difference to me.


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RE: Prejudice about long-distance D/s - what do you thi... - 7/13/2009 10:47:38 AM   
Hawkwindblues


Posts: 183
Joined: 6/26/2009
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline 		We only had the phone and writing for nearly 9 months before we met. There were only 600 kilometres between us, but we needed the time.

We are living together in August since 8 years and are married in September for 6 years.

As stella41b so rightly wrote: Only the two or more people who lead the relationship know the reality of it.

One thing i can strongly recommend if you plan to meet and bring the physical element into the contact, exchange something with your
scent on it with each other beforehand.

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RE: Prejudice about long-distance D/s - what do you thi... - 7/13/2009 12:29:38 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

~ Fast Reply ~


In a long distance relationship, when the internet is down, is that considerd having a partner hospitalized in a coma? Is the deletion of all photos and email a long distance divorce? Is hitting 'Alt-Ctrl-Delete' equated to euthanasia anywhere?

There is no doubt that people get something out of a relationship with someone who they have never met. The brain is magnificent at creating dialog. Whether with a make-believe 'friend' or a persona mentally generated from internet contact. The contact is always saying the right things, always there, always saying and doing whatever the brain needs satisfy it at the time. Between sessions, the partner is always in tune with your needs. Unlike what is commonly assumed on threads, reading minds IS possible. The strictest Dom doesn't have that same ability and control over a person seen regularly in person. The most mailable, self denigrating, automaton, submissive can't act preemptively from thoughts not expressed in words typed or spoken. 'SMACK!' typed bold and black can not convey the intercourse of an exchange between partners. Mutual masturbation shared via web-cam, isn't intercourse. It's not a waste of time. It isn't worse/better. It isn't bad, or good. It should never get in the way of real life experiences. It isn't life.


That said, there isn't a person I know who isn't in a long distance relationship. As I type, I'm 6.8 miles from beth. When the distance extends beyond arms length that's my definition of long distance. Maybe the issue isn't distance, but time. Separated for days, weeks, months, years; the ability to exchange sentiment and information is made easier by internet and phone communication, but given the option would anyone seek it instead of a touch? Given the option, one second of touching fingertips is preferable to a week long cyber chat. I'd submit that comparatively more 'information' is exchanged in that one second.

Tomorrow she leaves for the east coast, longER distance, but not pragmatically different. Feeling the lost tomorrow when separated is debilitating. Were we so inclined to do so, IMing, or Webcaming, would generate more frustration, not less; Friday's homecoming not made sweeter.

Distance between partners sucks. To me it is a constant, like the speed of light; time and distance, doesn't change the value. The value comes as a product of both. Maybe it's just my warped sense of cynicism, but without meeting, without any hope of meeting, you create a hollow shell of a relationship. Beyond the distance where a touch is possible your relationship is 'REAL'; but much of the gaps, like what would it feel to kiss, hug, touch, make love to, are all self assumptions. Is that "prejudice" or a reflection of reality?

You can 'kill' electronically generated images and dialog. It is much more difficult if not impossible, to create, or kill, the memory of a touch.
Nicely said, Merc...and it goes back, at least partially, to my original post.

When I have been interested in someone, I would so much rather have the person I was interested in right here in front of me...right now or at the very latest, that evening.  That wasn't going to happen, no matter how much I would like it to or they would like it to.  Too many other things in the way that had to be accomplished first.  Which is why, in interested in someone from a distance away, I always took pains to get to know them not just online, not just on the phone, but when I finally met them, I got to know them all over again along with exploring new areas I had not been able to "meet or get to know" over the phone.  Things like "she likes to be touched here, she smiles when she sees this or that, she gets all balled up when we watch something scary, she moves when she listens to music, she arches her neck when I bite her, etc". 
In a way, it does make it harder to have had that touch and then have to send them home and live without it but at the same time, it made it easier because now when I talked to them I could "see" them, their body movement, their facial expression, etc.. in my mind's eye. 

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RE: Prejudice about long-distance D/s - what do you thi... - 7/13/2009 2:20:09 PM   
Viridana


Posts: 754
Status: offline 		KaityK... I agree with every single word you've written on this thread. 

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Profile   Post #: 134
RE: Prejudice about long-distance D/s - what do you thi... - 7/13/2009 5:39:56 PM   
dreamerdreaming


Posts: 2839
Status: offline 		Online relationships can be very real, deep, and fulfilling... And a huge challenge!

For someone like me who has a lot of very specific requirements that must be met by any potential partner, online can yield be the best return on my time, for shopping around. It allows for the widest and yet most specific search.

Particularly for those who have intimacy issues, other entanglements (ei. married, significant other, workaholics or whatever) or just have a very specific need that can be filled this way: online relationships can be very attractive because they are relatively safe. But of course you can still be hurt with online- it exists in a very real emotional space, and can encompass much more than just online interaction. Phone, snail-mail, webcam (okay well that's still online...) and eventual physical relationships can all be a part of a relationship that is started and maintained online.

It is very important for anyone in an LDR to realize that there is nothing that can really equal spending a significant amount of time actually together in the same location, for getting to know someone. You may know someone online and by phone, etc. for months or even years, but you don't really get to know what its like to be with them in person, until you spend lots of time actually in their presence.

I liken an online relationship, or LDR, to a prison romance. You might get to spend some time with a person, in short bursts... But until they're right up in your face for a continuous period of days, months, years... A lot of talk is cheap. When you're in their presence over time, you may really get on each other's nerves in ways that have previously been minimized by the distance. Prison romances are relatively safe, and are very attractive to some people due to the reasons I mentioned in the paragraph above. While the person is safely kept apart from you physically, you both can have the rewards of a torrid, devoted love affair- without all the day to day irritations. Its the same with online. It starts out relatively safe and manageable. Physical proximity brings a lot of complications that many people don't want right then (or maybe ever) in their lives.

As mentioned above: people with intimacy issues due to abuse, etc. may feel very comfy with the safety level that they feel with online/LDR's. When something moves closer to "realtime", this sort of person may grow fearful and break off the relationship. (Just as a wife or girlfriend of a prisoner may break it off as the release date nears.) Something to be aware of...

I'm not trying to rag on anyone, with this post. I am speaking from experience.

Online relationships, or LDR's can be every bit as yummy and deep and fulfilling as the participants are inclined to allow. Just don't think you know what its like to actually be in the presence of someone over time, until you have.

Don't fool yourself.

< Message edited by dreamerdreaming -- 7/13/2009 5:45:38 PM >

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RE: Prejudice about long-distance D/s - what do you thi... - 7/14/2009 4:03:42 AM   
Sunnyfey


Posts: 1436
Joined: 9/21/2007
From: OK
Status: offline 		The only thing I have to say about LDR's is, if you have never met the person IN REAL LIFE, in the FLESH. Then you don't really know them completely. There is SO much to be said about a person, that you cant find out on line. You may like them, you may even love them, but you don't know them totally and completely until you meet them in person.

Do I think those who are in real time relationships, physically with their partner, are some how better? Not particularly.

Do I think the people who actually, physically, in the flesh, are playing together in a relationship, more real then those who only play online? Yes. You can only type "omg I'm cumming!!1" so many times before its just not worth it, you can only watch someone on video so many times, before it's just borning. Until you play in the flesh, No, you dont really know jack about bdsm. You may understand the theroy, but you will never know what a single tail feels like, until you get hit with one.

How do I know this?
been there, done that.


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RE: Prejudice about long-distance D/s - what do you thi... - 7/14/2009 4:41:03 AM   
ownedslavesweet


Posts: 23
Joined: 10/7/2007
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey

The only thing I have to say about LDR's is, if you have never met the person IN REAL LIFE, in the FLESH. Then you don't really know them completely. There is SO much to be said about a person, that you cant find out on line. You may like them, you may even love them, but you don't know them totally and completely until you meet them in person.


I would say, from my aforementioned bad experience that you don't actually know what or who anyone is, even if your entire communication has always been face to face. The person I 'knew' didn't deserve my trust, despite knowing him face to face for years previously - in fact, never online. In contrast, I knew my now Master a LOT better before I actually met him, and was damn sure I could trust him, otherwise I would not have gone near him you can be sure of that. The face to face contact let me down, where as the very in depth and extensive period I spent getting to know my Master was definite winner here.

It seems clear from reading this thread that it is very hard for people to talk about what is or is not possible in an online relationship and expect anyone much else to agree. We have all  had very different experiences, and can only speak from our own perspectives. I think just accepting that you cannot know what another person has or is experiencing is the best way to counter this prejudice.

lyss

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Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Prejudice about long-distance D/s - what do you thi... - 7/14/2009 4:55:57 AM   
Hawkwindblues


Posts: 183
Joined: 6/26/2009
From: Berlin, Germany
Status: offline 		I never knew somebody completely, not even my husband with whom i was together 16 years. Flesh or no Flesh has nothing to do with it. And i am sure i will never know somebody completely, not even sure if i know myself completely.

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RE: Prejudice about long-distance D/s - what do you thi... - 7/14/2009 4:58:26 AM   
Sunnyfey


Posts: 1436
Joined: 9/21/2007
From: OK
Status: offline 		I totally agree lyss,

If you had told me the day before the man I knew and loved (one way or another) for 13 years, was going to use my pretty face as a punching bag, I would have laughed at you for even suggesting it.

That point being, Liars are Liars online or offline.

I honestly think talking with someone online, is a great way to meet a potential lover. In fact, I have met a guy or two online, only to meet later and start dating offline. My big thing is, if your NEVER going to meet your "lover" offline, then it's just play time. If you intend and do meet your lover, in the flesh and its great and everything you ever hoped it could be. Rock the hell on. But I wont say its a relationship, until you've actually tasted that persons kiss. I wont deny you can form a DEEP emotional bond with someone before you meet them in the flesh, like...scary deep, but there's no amount of words that can describe they way a lovers hands feel when they touch your face.


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RE: Prejudice about long-distance D/s - what do you thi... - 7/14/2009 5:27:12 AM   
ownedslavesweet


Posts: 23
Joined: 10/7/2007
From: Canberra, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey

That point being, Liars are Liars online or offline.



Definitely agreed. *hugs*

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey

But I wont say its a relationship, until you've actually tasted that persons kiss.



Just have to disagree here. This one time I just *knew* how it will be when we finally met, in part because the physical distance between us meant we had to wait quite a while. For me, online was the same as offline, simply at a higher intensity when we were finally in person. I called it a relationship before we met, as did he. By calling it such, we made it so.

lyss

(in reply to Sunnyfey)
Profile   Post #: 140
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