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Prejudice about long-distance D/s - what do you think?? - 7/11/2009 4:46:52 AM

KateyCaine

Posts: 274
Joined: 5/7/2009
Status: offline

One issue that has arisen for me in the last week, which surprised me a great deal, is the stance that some people within the BDSM community take towards
people who may live in separate countries, yet conduct genuine, meaningful D/s relationships. Someone in the community actually made the assertion last week that my Master and i were simply "playing online", that i am not owned, simply because i am not physically wearing His collar. This thread actually makes a great follow-on from the thread "Feeling owned without being collared" that was posted some days ago. It makes me sad and somewhat appalled that some people within our own community judge a book by its cover, so to speak.

i am not a negative person and hate finger-pointing, however, i am interested to find out what others' views are on this issue. If two people are sincere, love eachother and are committed to eachother, have laid the groundwork for a relationship across the board,which transcends a D/s situation, it doesn't mean that they are "playing online" (i think the reason why i find this particular phrase offensive is the connotation of falseness and duplicity that it has) simply because they might live in separate continents. i think it all depends on what is in the heart of the Dom/Master and the sub/slave. Love is love, trust is trust, no matter what continent
one party may live in. A collar is merely a physical symbol made of leather or steel, the spiritual and emotional bond between Master/slave or Dom/sub is what truly matters.

i guess the statement that i was confronted with last week from a Dom, kind of threw me, as we get enough rubbish from those outside the community that don't always understand the dynamic of D/s or M/s relationships and may leap to awful conclusions of pain and non-consensual acts. It saddens me that there is a degree of prejudice WITHIN the BDSM community when we should all show solidarity, empathy and support one another instead of throwing stones at our own "peeps". There's enough hate out there as it is.

DISCLAIMER : This thread is NOT intended to be pugnacious or combative. Apologies to anyone who might find this so.

k.

_____________________________

Proud to be owned and cherished by Master Charles (Gauge)

i wear His collar on my heart; and wherever i am, i know He is with me.

His love and my devotion and service to Him are stronger than leather or steel.

Post #: 1

RE: Prejudice about long-distance D/s - what do you thi... - 7/11/2009 5:32:37 AM

CallaFirestormBW

Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline

I think that it is very difficult for people to fathom a relationship where individuals don't touch, spend regular time together, and, in the case of BDSM, actually physically enforce the dynamic between them. It's a lot harder for people to grasp mental domination and emotional domination than it is to grasp someone standing over you with a whip. For many, this is also about a sexual relationship, and sex just isn't "real" for some people unless it's physical, even when they spout the ever-popular "the greatest sexual organ in humans is the -MIND-" comment. Though we may say it, few, it seems, actually -believe- it.

I have to admit that I have a -strong- preference for local people. I really -suck- at chat, and am not fond of the phone, either, so a long-distance relationship wouldn't be a very good thing for me... but I think that if people can manage to sustain a level of intimacy that -they- find fulfilling through electronic media, then that's the only really -important- issue. Sure there's going to be bias. We are a profoundly judgmental race. People can't even come to civil discussion about Coke vs. Pepsi, or Colgate vs. Crest, so it doesn't seem strange at all that they'd not be able to come to common ground about the nature of reality when it comes to long-distance relationships.

For those who insist on calling these kinds of relationships 'fake' though -- I'd ask them to consider that, back in my grandparents' day, people would often meet through letters of introduction, and hold entire romantic relationships via pen and paper, through months of correspondence during a time when a single letter might take -weeks- to get from place to place, and weeks back again, and where it might be months, or even -years-, or NEVER when they had the chance to encounter one another in person... so this is by no means a 'new' phenomenon that one can blame on the internet or anything else. If long-distance works for ya, then it just works... if it doesn't, then stick to local, no harm, no foul.

Dame Calla

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 7/11/2009 5:34:01 AM >

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to KateyCaine)

Post #: 2

RE: Prejudice about long-distance D/s - what do you thi... - 7/11/2009 5:33:19 AM

Rainfire

Posts: 4047
Joined: 1/5/2009
Status: offline

This is a good example of "what works for you doesn't work for me". Or the variation "your kink is not my kink". What 2 people choose to do in their own relationship is between them. Maybe some don't believe that long distance can work but that doesn't give them the right to say it's wrong for everyone. While in a perfect world, people would not judge others or their relationships, it happens. If this was in a cmail, I would say "Block and Delete is your friend". Some people aren't worth the waste of air.

_____________________________

"I have sold my soul to the devil for You, will You still love me when I am soiled, stained and souless in my love for You?
Or is this the beginning of the end?"
Proud member of the Clan Scarlett O'Hair

(in reply to KateyCaine)

Post #: 3

RE: Prejudice about long-distance D/s - what do you thi... - 7/11/2009 5:52:35 AM

sambamanslilgirl

Posts: 10926
Joined: 2/5/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

yes there are many (esp here) who thump their noses and minds down at us who have ldrs. many do think that if you're not actually in a physical (touching, feeling, sexual, etc) relationship with the other, it's not twue BDSM. you're simply playing/living in an online fantasy world.

what a f-ing bunch of bull.

perhaps the many should take in account, that some of us don't need to be physically involved to have a healthy relationship. Daddy and i don't need to be physically together to have our type of Daddy/daughter relationship. it was our choice to be a long distance relationship and never once have i regretted it either. i don't need to physically touch Daddy to know how much He loves me ...it was never about sex between us. for 3 years, we're happy in the way our relationship has grown.

_____________________________

...2011 - year of the fabulous rock star life ...and i do it so well...

...announcing Mr. & Mrs. British Petrol ...yeah, marrying into oil is slick business...

(in reply to KateyCaine)

Post #: 4

RE: Prejudice about long-distance D/s - what do you thi... - 7/11/2009 5:54:15 AM

oceanwinds

Posts: 530
Status: offline

When I first was introduced to BDSM, Sir caution me that I would run into people claiming to have the 'truth' and my kink is better then yours. I am grateful that he filled me in on that, though in reality this is. seen even outside the bdsm community. Gratefully, I do not feel the need to do that in any area of my life, even those that have been a part of my life for decades. With that said, we each have preferrances and meeting another with the same is a great thing. Sir and I live an hour apart, yet we do not see each other often at this time. I still consider him Sir. I have never been own so no collar is on me, but in my heart i feel that i am submissive to him only in the context of bdsm. Both of us have a need of a lot of alone time, so our arrangement works for us. Most people would have a lot of negative input on my relationship, and i don't really care. A lot of what people express they have or desire to have would not work for me. Why do something that wont work for me?

Honor what you have OP and understand not everyone is going to agree with what you two have. Why should they? Why should they present themselves to you in a postive frame of mind, when they do not truly understand? Sometimes expectations of people/community runs naive. Looking outside of one self for approval is always the way to run into walls. Expecting people to honor you as a human is always an invite to running into walls.
oceanwinds

_____________________________

I know where I came from and where I am today. I am forever grateful to all that touched my life. Thank you all and especially you, Goddess.

(in reply to sambamanslilgirl)

Post #: 5

RE: Prejudice about long-distance D/s - what do you thi... - 7/11/2009 5:57:06 AM

CatdeMedici

Posts: 2257
Joined: 10/20/2008
Status: offline

Even if your relationship was local, someone would find some way to pee in the wheaties--as has been said, if it works for you, no one can or should say anything. Many of those in BDSM feel if there aren't any momets where there is real interaction or the toys come out then it isn't real---too often it is forgotten then a BDSM relationship may be purely emotional, power based or mental with no appearance of trappings--that does not mean the feelings are not genuine.

_____________________________

I am the Cat, holder of the whip and chair.

"Let's see-whips, dips, chains, chips, yep sounds like a party to Me!"

(in reply to KateyCaine)

Post #: 6

RE: Prejudice about long-distance D/s - what do you thi... - 7/11/2009 6:04:08 AM

slaveluci

Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline

So many wise words said already that I don't have much to add

I would say, however, that many people think no one can handle what they cannot. For instance, if I could not sustain a relationship where I wasn't physically close to my partner each day or very regularly, it may be impossible for me to imagine that someone else can. Some are capable of doing so and doing so very well, thank you.

Some simply must impose their own limitations on everyone and it's sad to see. Don't let their ignorant views get ya down. If it works for you and it's a beautiful thing then who cares what those not-in-the-know think?

luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to KateyCaine)

Post #: 7

RE: Prejudice about long-distance D/s - what do you thi... - 7/11/2009 6:04:14 AM

KaityK

Posts: 36
Joined: 6/27/2009
Status: offline

If you're not 'playing online' then what are you doing? Because you're not playing in real life are you? I appreciate where you're coming from but I have to admit (and I'm sorry) I can't take online/long-distance people seriously. It just doesn't make any sense and I can't see how it can be fulfilling at all. I need all senses to be fulfilled not just hearing promises and seeing stuff on a screen. But, each to their own I guess. Just wish online only people would use some kind of disclaimer when posting on forums so that the real life players know that they've never felt what it's like to submit and that their relationship is almost entirely in their head.

(in reply to Rainfire)

Post #: 8

RE: Prejudice about long-distance D/s - what do you thi... - 7/11/2009 6:08:36 AM

slaveluci

Posts: 4294
Joined: 3/2/2007
From: Little Rock, AR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KaityK

If you're not 'playing online' then what are you doing? Because you're not playing in real life are you? I appreciate where you're coming from but I have to admit (and I'm sorry) I can't take online/long-distance people seriously. It just doesn't make any sense and I can't see how it can be fulfilling at all. I need all senses to be fulfilled not just hearing promises and seeing stuff on a screen. But, each to their own I guess. Just wish online only people would use some kind of disclaimer when posting on forums so that the real life players know that they've never felt what it's like to submit and that their relationship is almost entirely in their head.

Maybe she's not "playing" at all. Did you ever consider that?

Just because you can't see yourself being fulfilled this way doesn't make it any less valid. What if someone said they couldn't take you seriously because you're incapable of functioning in a relationship unless you're being "played" with daily? Does that make it true?

You've said some hurtful and ignorant statements above, KaityK. Just because you don't choose a certain way doesn't mean that those who do have relationships only "in their head."

Wow. Simply amazing

................luci

_____________________________

To choose a good book, look in an inquisitor’s prohibited list. ~John Aikin

(in reply to KaityK)

Post #: 9

RE: Prejudice about long-distance D/s - what do you thi... - 7/11/2009 6:08:41 AM

pompeii

Posts: 934
Joined: 1/4/2007
From: Silicon Valley, San Jose, California
Status: offline

Sex is a fantasy after all ...

(in reply to KaityK)

Post #: 10

RE: Prejudice about long-distance D/s - what do you thi... - 7/11/2009 6:11:14 AM

olena

Posts: 97
Joined: 12/27/2007
Status: offline

Weak people need to feel better about themselves by tearing down others. At the same time reality is needed and one must show a sense of sanity to understand long distance online relationship is going to be quite different the a real life relationship. Both groups have people that can come off as judgmental to the other in how they go about seeking validation for their preferences.

There are weak people in all groups. In this case people in real life relationships who feel the need to put down something they are not about and people in cyber relationships who need to want to compare them to real life relationships.

Whatever works for you is good. Anyone putting that down or you wanting some mythical credit for it is just wasting time.

(in reply to KateyCaine)

Post #: 11

RE: Prejudice about long-distance D/s - what do you thi... - 7/11/2009 6:16:46 AM

oceanwinds

Posts: 530
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KaityK

If you're not 'playing online' then what are you doing? Because you're not playing in real life are you? I appreciate where you're coming from but I have to admit (and I'm sorry) I can't take online/long-distance people seriously. It just doesn't make any sense and I can't see how it can be fulfilling at all. I need all senses to be fulfilled not just hearing promises and seeing stuff on a screen. But, each to their own I guess. Just wish online only people would use some kind of disclaimer when posting on forums so that the real life players know that they've never felt what it's like to submit and that their relationship is almost entirely in their head.

See that is where you have zero knowledge in, the entirely in their head business. It would be stupid of me to put you down because you might not be able to have the mental processing to handle a ldr. Not everyone can. I am more of a mental person then physical, which I happen to prefer anyways. What you don't understand doesn't mean it is not real. It just simply means you have not experience it or don't have the capacity to live it. This does not make it good or bad, it is just what is at this moment.

_____________________________

I know where I came from and where I am today. I am forever grateful to all that touched my life. Thank you all and especially you, Goddess.

(in reply to KaityK)

Post #: 12

RE: Prejudice about long-distance D/s - what do you thi... - 7/11/2009 6:17:25 AM

Prinsexx

Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

Long distance love that sustains time is not new. There were many during both World Wars particularly in Europe who sustained years apart with infrequent letters, the threat of death and disability as separators who went on to live and love and move back home or halr way across Europe and from Britain to the States a brides...
it's an inspiring testament to the power of the dynamic of any relationship that distance is not the thing that separates. Ask anyone who is 'separated' about this.

_____________________________

Owner of asterion

Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
Free woman
Resident thread finisher
To my stalker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

(in reply to KateyCaine)

Post #: 13

RE: Prejudice about long-distance D/s - what do you thi... - 7/11/2009 6:19:48 AM

KaityK

Posts: 36
Joined: 6/27/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

quote:

ORIGINAL: KaityK

If you're not 'playing online' then what are you doing? Because you're not playing in real life are you? I appreciate where you're coming from but I have to admit (and I'm sorry) I can't take online/long-distance people seriously. It just doesn't make any sense and I can't see how it can be fulfilling at all. I need all senses to be fulfilled not just hearing promises and seeing stuff on a screen. But, each to their own I guess. Just wish online only people would use some kind of disclaimer when posting on forums so that the real life players know that they've never felt what it's like to submit and that their relationship is almost entirely in their head.

Maybe she's not "playing" at all. Did you ever consider that?

Just because you can't see yourself being fulfilled this way doesn't make it any less valid. What if someone said they couldn't take you seriously because you're incapable of functioning in a relationship unless you're being "played" with daily? Does that make it true?

You've said some hurtful and ignorant statements above, KaityK. Just because you don't choose a certain way doesn't mean that those who do have relationships only "in their head."

Wow. Simply amazing................luci

It's a bdsm forum? So I'd expect anyone in such a relationship or intending to have on to actually DO the related activities. But I'd say the same thing about anyone saying they had a relationship with someone they hadn't met. Untill you've kissed, touched, smelt and breathed in that person then you don't KNOW them properly. Sorry if that doesn't fit in with how people have justified these things in their minds. It just doesn't have credibility.

(in reply to slaveluci)

Post #: 14

RE: Prejudice about long-distance D/s - what do you thi... - 7/11/2009 6:22:32 AM

daintydimples

Posts: 967
Joined: 7/6/2009
Status: offline

I am well aware that people can feel an online only relationship is "real" due to the emotions it evokes. I am of the opinion that a real relationship means meeting the person face to face. Unless and until you do that, too much is based on pure fantasy. This is based on my own personal experiences.

I think most who have been through this will agree that once you meet, you start over in many ways.

JMO

(in reply to CatdeMedici)

Post #: 15

RE: Prejudice about long-distance D/s - what do you thi... - 7/11/2009 6:24:43 AM

KaityK

Posts: 36
Joined: 6/27/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: oceanwinds

quote:

ORIGINAL: KaityK

If you're not 'playing online' then what are you doing? Because you're not playing in real life are you? I appreciate where you're coming from but I have to admit (and I'm sorry) I can't take online/long-distance people seriously. It just doesn't make any sense and I can't see how it can be fulfilling at all. I need all senses to be fulfilled not just hearing promises and seeing stuff on a screen. But, each to their own I guess. Just wish online only people would use some kind of disclaimer when posting on forums so that the real life players know that they've never felt what it's like to submit and that their relationship is almost entirely in their head.

See that is where you have zero knowledge in, the entirely in their head business. It would be stupid of me to put you down because you might not be able to have the mental processing to handle a ldr. Not everyone can. I am more of a mental person then physical, which I happen to prefer anyways. What you don't understand doesn't mean it is not real. It just simply means you have not experience it or don't have the capacity to live it. This does not make it good or bad, it is just what is at this moment.

By all means have a go at putting me down but my understanding of the OP was that she hadn't 'met' her master because of the comment someone had made about her not wearing her 'Master's' collar. Perhaps some people have problems discerning the difference between having met someone and then being separated and having to conduct a ldr between never having met someone and carrying on a ldr? THere is a difference! Think about it!

< Message edited by KaityK -- 7/11/2009 6:33:32 AM >

(in reply to oceanwinds)

Post #: 16

RE: Prejudice about long-distance D/s - what do you thi... - 7/11/2009 6:25:26 AM

Rainfire

Posts: 4047
Joined: 1/5/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KaityK

If you're not 'playing online' then what are you doing? Because you're not playing in real life are you? I appreciate where you're coming from but I have to admit (and I'm sorry) I can't take online/long-distance people seriously. It just doesn't make any sense and I can't see how it can be fulfilling at all. I need all senses to be fulfilled not just hearing promises and seeing stuff on a screen. But, each to their own I guess. Just wish online only people would use some kind of disclaimer when posting on forums so that the real life players know that they've never felt what it's like to submit and that their relationship is almost entirely in their head.

Unfortunately, an excellent example of someone judging and trashing another person's beliefs, feelings and choices. If LDR doesn't work for you, fine. But that doesn't mean it doesn't work for every other single person on this planet. There are many happy couples that have started long distance and either found it worked for them or moved eventually to real-time, in person relationships.

Not taking someone seriously because YOU can't handle LDR is seriously disrespectful of other peoples dynamics. Who died and made you Judge and Jury of all relationships on this planet? Again, what works for you isn't for everyone - we all make our choices. That doesn't mean that one person is less real or serious than anyone else.

Everyone can make a valuable contribution. Perhaps even you.

_____________________________

"I have sold my soul to the devil for You, will You still love me when I am soiled, stained and souless in my love for You?
Or is this the beginning of the end?"
Proud member of the Clan Scarlett O'Hair

(in reply to KaityK)

Post #: 17

RE: Prejudice about long-distance D/s - what do you thi... - 7/11/2009 6:30:10 AM

KaityK

Posts: 36
Joined: 6/27/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rainfire

quote:

ORIGINAL: KaityK

If you're not 'playing online' then what are you doing? Because you're not playing in real life are you? I appreciate where you're coming from but I have to admit (and I'm sorry) I can't take online/long-distance people seriously. It just doesn't make any sense and I can't see how it can be fulfilling at all. I need all senses to be fulfilled not just hearing promises and seeing stuff on a screen. But, each to their own I guess. Just wish online only people would use some kind of disclaimer when posting on forums so that the real life players know that they've never felt what it's like to submit and that their relationship is almost entirely in their head.

Unfortunately, an excellent example of someone judging and trashing another person's beliefs, feelings and choices. If LDR doesn't work for you, fine. But that doesn't mean it doesn't work for every other single person on this planet. There are many happy couples that have started long distance and either found it worked for them or moved eventually to real-time, in person relationships.

Not taking someone seriously because YOU can't handle LDR is seriously disrespectful of other peoples dynamics. Who died and made you Judge and Jury of all relationships on this planet? Again, what works for you isn't for everyone - we all make our choices. That doesn't mean that one person is less real or serious than anyone else.

Everyone can make a valuable contribution. Perhaps even you.

Nobody did? But it's a typical response to someone who doesn't give a fluffy response to something they don't agree with. It's a forum so I gave my opinion and the reasons why I hold it. That is all!

I maintain, until you've felt his hands, his kisses and all the rest of it then all you have is an enhanced fantasy world with someone else who is also a fantasist.

(in reply to Rainfire)

Post #: 18

RE: Prejudice about long-distance D/s - what do you thi... - 7/11/2009 6:31:15 AM

Prinsexx

Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KaityK

If you're not 'playing online' then what are you doing? Because you're not playing in real life are you? I appreciate where you're coming from but I have to admit (and I'm sorry) I can't take online/long-distance people seriously. It just doesn't make any sense and I can't see how it can be fulfilling at all. I need all senses to be fulfilled not just hearing promises and seeing stuff on a screen. But, each to their own I guess. Just wish online only people would use some kind of disclaimer when posting on forums so that the real life players know that they've never felt what it's like to submit and that their relationship is almost entirely in their head.

You said: ~If you're not 'playing online' then what are you doing? Because you're not playing in real life are you?~
Perhaps she and her Master aren't 'playing'?

_____________________________

Owner of asterion

Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
Free woman
Resident thread finisher
To my stalker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

(in reply to KaityK)

Post #: 19

RE: Prejudice about long-distance D/s - what do you thi... - 7/11/2009 6:32:33 AM

Leonidas

Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline

Do whatever you'd like with another consenting adult as long as you aren't breakin' the law.

Don't bullshit yourself into thinking that it's more "meaningful and genuine" than it actually is, and end up wasting years of your life engaged in fantasy to the exclusion of actually living. I've seen more people than I would care to do just that.

I would say the same thing to you whether your fantasy drug of choice is virtual D/s, or TV, or Cyber-Porn.

An aspect of the BDSM "culture" that I personally have trouble with is the extreme focus on being non-judgemental to the point of condoning lifestyles that are patently self-destructive or unhealthy, or better yet, asserting that those lifestyles are morally "equal" to those that are uplifting and positive. But, that's just me.

_____________________________

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to KateyCaine)

Post #: 20

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