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Limits - 7/27/2009 8:13:57 PM

GaPhoto

Posts: 22
Joined: 2/12/2007
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How many people actually know what the definiton of a hard limit is?

I see so many people posting simple things like knife play as hard limits. By definition a hard limit is something that will mentally, emotionally, or physically damage the person beyond my ability to heal. Running a knife along the skin is not going to do that for the majority of the population.

Collarme should define the definiton of limits on top of other things.

Zack

Post #: 1

RE: Limits - 7/27/2009 8:18:46 PM

tazzygirl

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Hard limits are those things that you WILL NOT do under any circumstances. Good examples of these hard limits might be animals, blood play, or scat. Only you can decide what you will and will not do. It does not have to be an extreme to be a hard limit.

Soft limits on the other hand, are limits that you might be willing to try, under the right circumstance and with the right person. Good examples of these might be anal play, or bisexuality. These are limits in which you do not desire or want these things. However, you might be willing to try them if your Master or Dom wishes to try and experiment.

The main difference between hard and soft limits is simple. A hard limit is something that you will not do under any circumstance for any person, period.

This is what i always thought the definitions were.

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Post #: 2

RE: Limits - 7/27/2009 8:19:28 PM

KneelforAnne

Posts: 1011
Joined: 6/14/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GaPhoto

How many people actually know what the definiton of a hard limit is?

I see so many people posting simple things like knife play as hard limits. By definition a hard limit is something that will mentally, emotionally, or physically damage the person beyond my ability to heal. Running a knife along the skin is not going to do that for the majority of the population.

Collarme should define the definiton of limits on top of other things.

Zack

Hello Zack,

Welcome to the forums!

When I was first starting, anything that sounded too dangerous was a "hard limit". Some of these things I had no idea about... I had no idea that fireplay DIDN'T really mean setting me on fire-- in the bad, 3rd degree, you may die way.... LOL

Some people (if they are like me) see things and think of them in the worst possible way and list them as a "hell no"!

For me, a little education went a long way... and now my limits are a bit wider than they started.

Hope this helps!

~anne

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(in reply to GaPhoto)

Post #: 3

RE: Limits - 7/27/2009 8:26:45 PM

NihilusZero

Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GaPhoto

By definition a hard limit is something that will mentally, emotionally, or physically damage the person beyond my ability to heal.

I see no reason why to give this definition any credence.

You realize that limits are subjective entities, yes?

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

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(in reply to GaPhoto)

Post #: 4

RE: Limits - 7/27/2009 8:27:03 PM

DommeInDelaware

Posts: 17
Joined: 1/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GaPhoto

How many people actually know what the definiton of a hard limit is? 2,423,437,576

I see so many people posting simple things like knife play as hard limits. By definition a hard limit is something that will mentally, emotionally, or physically damage the person beyond my ability to heal. Running a knife along the skin is not going to do that for the majority of the population. That's your definition. Sometimes a hard limit is just something a person doesn't want for no reason other than they just don't want it. One of my hard limits is I don't want a submissive that is into feminization. Is that something that is going to damage me beyond my ability to heal? Nope, just something I don't want, period.

Collarme should define the definiton of limits on top of other things. Why? If you come across a profile of someone that really interests you, but has knife play as a hard limit, why don't you ask them what they think it entails and then see if perhaps there is a happy medium?

Zack

(in reply to GaPhoto)

Post #: 5

RE: Limits - 7/27/2009 8:31:29 PM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GaPhoto
By definition a hard limit is something that will mentally, emotionally, or physically damage the person beyond my ability to heal.

You're mistaken. For example, I'm a dom and a top, and I have hard limits -- things I won't do with a partner. As an example, I have no interest in bloodsports.

I wouldn't be scarred for life if I crossed those limits. I just don't like them at all, and will never do them, so they're not "soft" limits. Any woman who has to have them is incompatible with me.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to GaPhoto)

Post #: 6

RE: Limits - 7/27/2009 8:39:04 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GaPhoto

How many people actually know what the definiton of a hard limit is?

I do. It's a point beyond which someone either will not or can not go. For whatever reason.

< Message edited by ThatDamnedPanda -- 7/27/2009 9:18:48 PM >

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Post #: 7

RE: Limits - 7/27/2009 8:39:29 PM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

Actually, I figured we should all just vote for Zack as the official BDSM definer. That way we could FINALLY get some definitions for all those damned words like "dominance", "submission", "slave", "power", etc.

And, the good news is based upon his post here, it sounds like he's got all the answers already! I am SO excited.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to NihilusZero)

Post #: 8

RE: Limits - 7/27/2009 8:43:07 PM

GaPhoto

Posts: 22
Joined: 2/12/2007
Status: offline

Limits are fluid yes, and I do fully realize that. However this is the definition that I was taught, by someone who has verifiably been involved with the leather (and yes I mean actual leather) community for a significant portion of her life, and it is shared by many whom I have spoke with. Everything else is soft. Should soft limits be respected with absolute lines? Yes. Should they be listed as hard limits? No, I agree that hard limits are things that you will never do, however it is because they do not fall within the bounds of honor, or R.A.C.K.

I also realize that I tend to have more absolute views on things due to my teaching, and that online many people only have anecdotal, 'Story of 'O' knowledge and view points.

Zack

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Post #: 9

RE: Limits - 7/27/2009 8:43:22 PM

Racquelle

Posts: 600
Joined: 4/21/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GaPhoto

How many people actually know what the definiton of a hard limit is?

I see so many people posting simple things like knife play as hard limits. By definition a hard limit is something that will mentally, emotionally, or physically damage the person beyond my ability to heal. Running a knife along the skin is not going to do that for the majority of the population.

Collarme should define the definiton of limits on top of other things.

Zack

Hard Limits are what the individual says they are, for whatever reason they choose. Period.

(in reply to GaPhoto)

Post #: 10

RE: Limits - 7/27/2009 8:44:33 PM

stella41b

Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GaPhoto

How many people actually know what the definiton of a hard limit is?

Might sound ridiculous here, but could you possibly define your definition here? Are you talking the definition as found in the Oxford dictionary, Merriams Webster?

Or are you trying to find out how many share your perception as to what the definition of a hard limit is? Are we talking about a definition that you've heard from someone else? Or is this a definition drawn from some sort of consensus?

quote:

ORIGINAL: GaPhoto

I see so many people posting simple things like knife play as hard limits.

Yes, I'm aware of this. I see it too.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GaPhoto

By definition a hard limit is something that will mentally, emotionally, or physically damage the person beyond my ability to heal.

Aha, so you're actually looking to find out how many people share your definition of a hard limit?. Gotcha.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GaPhoto

Running a knife along the skin is not going to do that for the majority of the population.

Running a knife along the skin? Can you define this? Are we talking about running the flat edge of the knife across the skin? The blunt edge? or are we talking about running the blade across the surface of the skin lightly enough so it doesn't leave a mark?

Just one slight problem... Knife play just doesn't involve a knife, does it? It also involves the person holding the knife, correct?

Now who are you, or I for that matter, to say how a given person is going to feel about taking part in knife play? (I'm not going to say, but will let everyone post here as they wish).

quote:

ORIGINAL: GaPhoto

Collarme should define the definiton of limits on top of other things.

And this is where I disagree. Collarme shouldn't be doing anything more than it is doing right at this moment in time, and that is facilitating you, me and everyone else to discuss, interact and communicate freely on topics relating to WIITWD (among others).

Furthermore, when you're dealing with potentially dangerous activities such as knife play and other such activities in WIITWD, I feel it's much safer for those involving themselves in such activities to work it out between themselves without any standardization of terms.

This is of course assuming that they have the sense to equip themselves with 'informed consent'.

Pardon me for giving you the third degree here, but there are numerous threads and discussions on hard limits. But then again I'm no expert on knife play and I know that there are a considerable number who know more than I do.

I just wanted to make the point of a standard definition applied universally may not be in everyone's best interests. You (and others) may disagree.

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(in reply to GaPhoto)

Post #: 11

RE: Limits - 7/27/2009 8:46:42 PM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GaPhoto
I also realize that I tend to have more absolute views on things due to my teaching, and that online many people only have anecdotal, 'Story of 'O' knowledge and view points.

You mean vegetarian fakes like me! Hot damn!

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to GaPhoto)

Post #: 12

RE: Limits - 7/27/2009 8:52:42 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GaPhoto

Limits are fluid yes, and I do fully realize that. However this is the definition that I was taught, by someone who has verifiably been involved with the leather (and yes I mean actual leather) community for a significant portion of her life, and it is shared by many whom I have spoke with. Everything else is soft. Should soft limits be respected with absolute lines? Yes. Should they be listed as hard limits? No, I agree that hard limits are things that you will never do, however it is because they do not fall within the bounds of honor, or R.A.C.K.

I also realize that I tend to have more absolute views on things due to my teaching, and that online many people only have anecdotal, 'Story of 'O' knowledge and view points.

Zack

and my hard limits are based upon my likes, desires and experiences. i look for men who are compatible with those. omgosh.. a slave with limits.. who woulda thunk it?! well.. i do have limits,, few.. but firm. for example, you list hypnosis as something you enjoy. for me, its off limits. i have had too many men fuck with my mind to allow someone else to even begin to do so again. until complete trust is established, its a hard limit. and i have no clue how long it takes to establish that level of trust.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to GaPhoto)

Post #: 13

RE: Limits - 7/27/2009 8:56:16 PM

GaPhoto

Posts: 22
Joined: 2/12/2007
Status: offline

Everytime I get pissed off at how many people are on here just using this site for masturbational material, then vent it on the forums in some foot in mouth way, I'm reminded that there are actually people on here who do have some sense, and haven't moved over to FetLife.

I'm not that narrow minded, just that my pants came unzipped, and my age slipped out. Sorry.

But I do think that some sort of definiton should be avaliable for newbies, even in the forums. That's how the term BDSM came around, as a general descriptor. As a personals site collarme should have different options availiable, and a blurb giving some general idea what each one means. Not concrete definitons, just some idea. Does anyone agree with me?

Zack

(in reply to stella41b)

Post #: 14

RE: Limits - 7/27/2009 8:56:37 PM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GaPhoto
I also realize that I tend to have more absolute views on things due to my teaching, and that online many people only have anecdotal, 'Story of 'O' knowledge and view points.

ROTFLMAO.

You know Zack, without wanting to burst your bubble or anything, I'm really glad that some leather person gave you a few pointers. But aside from my anecdotal 'story of o' knowledge, I actually HAVE a successful, long-term relationship. I actually DO wield power and influence within the larger world and I have for almost as many years as you've been alive. Many of the posters here could make similar claims.

By the way, Secretary was a way better story than Story of O.

To your original question... I don't actually like the the whole "limit" concept to start with. Granted though, it seems to work for a lot of people. So if you want me to define "hard limit", I'd go with something like this.

A protective measure setup by the person so that they can feel comfortable that they have asserted themselves as a sub and are not the dreaded DOORMAT(tm).

I mean seriously.... Carol and I don't have "limits" mostly because she trusts me not to be stupid and for the most part, I'm not. I suppose, at some point, I'm inevitably going to be really stupid at which point I hope that instead of a lengthy discussion about limits and boundaries, she'll just say something along the lines of "That's idiotic."

see also: contracts

< Message edited by leadership527 -- 7/27/2009 9:03:03 PM >

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to GaPhoto)

Post #: 15

RE: Limits - 7/27/2009 8:59:01 PM

dreamerdreaming

Posts: 2839
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GaPhoto

How many people actually know what the definiton of a hard limit is?

I see so many people posting simple things like knife play as hard limits. By definition a hard limit is something that will mentally, emotionally, or physically damage the person beyond my ability to heal. Running a knife along the skin is not going to do that for the majority of the population.

Collarme should define the definiton of limits on top of other things.

Zack

Welcome to the boards, OP.

Your definition of a hard limit is kind of out of left field. Most of us here see a hard limit as something that we just won't do. Something non-negotiable.

The reason could be for safety, or it could be something else entirely. It could be that the whole idea of the stated activity just doesn't interest us at all. Or it could be that it turns us off, or that the idea is just completely repulsive to us.

When I say I won't do knife play with my slaveboy I mean it. It has nothing to do with it being dangerous really, because if I just scratched the boy up a bit, he'd likely be fine. Its just something that I have no interest at all in doing.

Or how about if I burned my boy just a tiny bit with a lighter? Again, he'd most likely be just fine. But the idea doesn't do anything for me. Its just not my kink. Its a hard limit because I have no interest in exploring that whole avenue of play. There are so many other things that my slaveboy and I find yummy.... That might be among other people's hard limits. Humiliation, for example. Its a major part of our kink. Other people don't do it at all, because they're just not interested. Its not their kink. YKINMK.

< Message edited by dreamerdreaming -- 7/27/2009 9:37:16 PM >

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(in reply to GaPhoto)

Post #: 16

RE: Limits - 7/27/2009 9:00:38 PM

Racquelle

Posts: 600
Joined: 4/21/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GaPhoto

Limits are fluid yes, and I do fully realize that. However this is the definition that I was taught, by someone who has verifiably been involved with the leather (and yes I mean actual leather) community for a significant portion of her life

So?

quote:

ORIGINAL: GaPhoto I also realize that I tend to have more absolute views on things

Eventually you will grow out of that. You have such the cocksuredness of a 22 year old. Its darling, it really is.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GaPhoto due to my teaching, and that online many people only have anecdotal, 'Story of 'O' knowledge and view points.

It's considered a seminal work, as are many other tomes, and they are no more or less legitimate in informing a person's views as your "teaching" has been. Your definition really only matters in your personal interactions, and perhaps, may not matter at all to those you choose to engage in WIITWD with.

(in reply to GaPhoto)

Post #: 17

RE: Limits - 7/27/2009 9:02:41 PM

NihilusZero

Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GaPhoto

However this is the definition that I was taught, by someone who has verifiably been involved with the leather (and yes I mean actual leather) community for a significant portion of her life, and it is shared by many whom I have spoke with.

You are taking the definition of a term espoused by a subset of the WIITWD community and asking that it be universally adapted and the terminology then enforced onto members of a website by said website.

Yet your adoption of your definition is not, somehow, anecdotal.

Does the leather community (as you've come to understand it) have a special definition for "anecdotal" as well?

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 7/27/2009 9:04:05 PM >

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to GaPhoto)

Post #: 18

RE: Limits - 7/27/2009 9:03:01 PM

ICEMAN55

Posts: 3
Joined: 7/18/2009
Status: offline

It's true that is what a "hard limit" is , thought there are some that for who the fear of a knife maybe permanently emotionally damaging

(in reply to dreamerdreaming)

Post #: 19

RE: Limits - 7/27/2009 9:05:00 PM

GaPhoto

Posts: 22
Joined: 2/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Racquelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: GaPhoto I also realize that I tend to have more absolute views on things
Eventually you will grow out of that. You have such the cocksuredness of a 22 year old. Its darling, it really is.

I'm 23 actually, and the older I get (yes I'm still VERY young I know this), the less I know.

Zack

(in reply to Racquelle)

Post #: 20

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