RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/20/2009 8:59:26 AM)

Thank you, i saw that, and all i saw you doing was mocking... not coming out against anything. perceptions i guess. such as the following...

quote:

Responding to a question at a town hall meeting in Atlanta Tuesday, Carter said that Wilson’s outburst was rooted in fears of a black president. “I think it’s based on racism,” Carter said. “There is an inherent feeling among many in this country that an African-American should not be president.”

As we told you here, Carter’s racism charge resurrected the Wilson controversy, resulting in a flurry of polarized opinions in the blogosphere and the mainstream media.

Gibbs casual demeanor toward the repeated questioning this afternoon seemed to telegraph that it’s not an issue with the White House.

“As I said Sunday, the president does not believe that it is based on the color of his skin,” Gibbs said when first asked about Carter’s comments.


Carter came out on his own, with no help from Obama, in spite of Obama saying that he didnt believe any of it was racially motivated.

http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2009/09/16/jimmy-carter-racism-charge-obama-doesnt-agree-says-gibbs/



Sanity -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/20/2009 9:08:30 AM)


I wasn't mocking, I said flat out, what a load of garbage.

And I'd suggest you go back and read the OP to the Carter thread, Carter is making blanket accusations of racism against "many white people". He's driving wedges, he's being divisive and hateful. False charges of racism really won't help his cause anyway, especially with a president who lives in a glass mansion with all kinds of scorched pots and used petards laying around.






Kirata -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/20/2009 9:42:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

According to the Oxford English Dictionary, racism is a belief or ideology that all members of each racial group possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially...

Given that certain groups are genetically predisposed to certain illnesses (sometimes exclusively) and newer genetic advances are revealing other differences which merit being taken into account when formulating treatment plans, I think the broadness of that definition will need some revising. When it becomes technically "racist" merely to acknowledge that such differences exist, the word has lost all meaning. Racism, or at least certainly the kind of racism we're concerned about, involves perjorative judgments of and abusive behavior toward those who are different by virtue of race. In my view, the critical element of racism lies not in the main clause of that definition but rather in the "especially" clause

K.



SpinnerofTales -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/20/2009 10:48:18 AM)

quote:

And I'd suggest you go back and read the OP to the Carter thread, Carter is making blanket accusations of racism against "many white people". He's driving wedges, he's being divisive and hateful. False charges of racism really won't help his cause anyway, especially with a president who lives in a glass mansion with all kinds of scorched pots and used petards laying around.
ORIGINAL: Sanity


This may be a good time to bring up what I think is a far more realistic view of things than Jimmy Carter and many on the left seem to have missed.

I do not think that the opposition of Obama's policies stem from racism. I think that the racism stems from the opposition of Obama's policies. For example, I do not think the morons with posters displaying images of Obama as an African witch doctor joined the tea party protests in order to display their obviously racist posters. I think that they are concerned, correctly or incorrectly, with what they see as a poor government policy and felt it appropriate to bring race into the discussion.

I personally think this is a very important difference in the conversation.






tazzygirl -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/20/2009 10:49:25 AM)

I have no problem with that definition, Master Kirata. It was the differences between bigotry and racism, and the definitions given by someone else, that i wished to draw attention too.

Just because i allow someone to buy a sofa doesnt mean i cannot be racist towards them as well.

As i have said before, money knows no color these days, besides green.



Sanity -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/20/2009 10:50:01 AM)


Speaking of black Conservatives, George Foreman was on the Saturday edition of the Glenn Beck show, and he and Beck were heartily agreeing with each other on a number of subjects. I think you can safely count him in as well.

And what an amazing individual. He had a fantastic comeback at the age of 45, and won the world boxing title. Talk about an inspiration! Not that I'm going to be trying to do that, I'm not climbing into a ring with a Mike Tyson or an Evander Holyfield any time soon. But still...

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
History test.

List of African-American Republicans

Firm



tazzygirl -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/20/2009 10:53:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Obama came out in agreement with me because I'm pretty sure that I "came out and strongly disagreed with the charge" well before he did, in the Carter thread as a matter of fact, post number eight.

It's simply stating the obvious to say that Carter's a fool, so of course Obama would say I am right.


quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales
I can actually think of one of the "you on the left" who didn't cheer him on. One person on the left actually came out and strongly disagreed with the charge. That person was Barack Obama.

I don't expect you to say "I agree with Obama on this matter." I know that even thinking those words would probably make your head explode.




Obama came out before Carter ever made his announcement, saying how he doesnt believe any of this is specifically racially motivated.

quote:

And I'd suggest you go back and read the OP to the Carter thread, Carter is making blanket accusations of racism against "many white people". He's driving wedges, he's being divisive and hateful. False charges of racism really won't help his cause anyway, especially with a president who lives in a glass mansion with all kinds of scorched pots and used petards laying around.


Obama has no control over what anyone else may say or think in this case. Carter made his statement. I have seen nothing except Obama saying he doesnt agree. One has nothing to do with the other. Yet you keep trying to spin this back onto Obama.



Sanity -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/20/2009 11:08:02 AM)


There are plenty who are claiming that any opposition to Obama is based on racism, and there are plenty here on collarchat who agree.

Panda for example said, "There's never been any doubt in my mind that a lot of this intense rage toward Obama is because so many ignorant rednecked crackers don't believe an uppity Negro has any right to be president. And they're furious about it. Which - being the sadistic prick that I am - makes it all the more fun for me to watch them scream until they turn blue and pass out, the bigoted cocksuckers"

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=2806603

My only point is that those kind of stones tend to come back and haunt those who cast them.



SpinnerofTales -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/20/2009 11:15:55 AM)

quote:

There are plenty who are claiming that any opposition to Obama is based on racism, and there are plenty here on collarchat who agree.
ORIGINAL: Sanity






I very strongly believe that there has been a strong misunderstanding of what is happening in this matter. It isn't that people are opposing Obama's policies because they are racists. I think that what is happening is that many of those opposed to Obma's policies believe racist comments, posters, etc. are legitimate tools to advance their point.



tazzygirl -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/20/2009 11:19:04 AM)

And what i am seeing is many saying that because of their actions they are being labled as racist. Can you not see that there are those who are racist, and do things because of it, and then there are people who do things, and are labled a racist?

Just as you became upset over the idea that someone would not vote in a white judge to the supreme court over someone else, based upon them being white, you cannot seem to understand how holding up signs of Obama in a field of watermellons and screaming... DIE!...can be just as racist.

People can either be racist, or come across as racist because of their actions.



FatDomDaddy -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/20/2009 11:33:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

you cannot seem to understand how holding up signs of Obama in a field of watermellons and screaming... DIE!...can be just as racist.




It is in very poor taste, it is bigotted.... but it is not racist



Sanity -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/20/2009 11:39:20 AM)


Thats total hogwash tazzy, sorry. You don't understand what I write at all. The thing is, Obama is demonstrably racist. Carter and his ilk are loose canons, running around screaming that there are racists under our beds. This has Obama freaking out. He's all, shut the fuck up you old fool, this isn't a battle we can win, and he's right for a number of reasons which I have dutifully pointed out.



tazzygirl -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/20/2009 11:44:29 AM)

I dont recall anyone calling Reagan sexist, do you?



cuckoldmepls -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/20/2009 11:45:24 AM)

AP - President Barack Obama says requiring people to get health insurance and fining them if they don't would not amount to a backhanded tax increase. 

Omg, he's not only a racist by attending a racist church and appointing a racist supreme court justice, but he's also one of the biggest liars in history. If you will notice, before the election he was talking about renegotiating NAFTA, and after the election not a peep. Seems to me if you want the economy to recover permanently, that should be the number one priority.



tazzygirl -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/20/2009 11:56:26 AM)

I personally see nothing wrong with fining people who can afford insurance and do not get it. There will be many options available. Its like chosing not to get car insurance. Not an option anymore.



Sanity -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/20/2009 12:27:38 PM)


I'm sexist. What's wrong with being sexist...

And I guess its my turn to be lost. Where does that even come in to the argument?


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I dont recall anyone calling Reagan sexist, do you?



SpinnerofTales -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/20/2009 12:47:52 PM)

quote:

Obama is demonstrably racist.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity




You can keep shouting that all you want, Sanity, it doesn't make it true. So far all you've presented as proof that he's hung out with people who made racist statements, nominated a justice to the supreme court you made a statement that seems to have offended you no end, and who didn't have his justice department crack down appropriately on a pair of black panthers who stood around saying stupid things. It's hardly a smoking gun. If you want to feel picked on and discriminated against, by all means it's your right. I wish, however, you would stop spouting ill supported opinion as fact.




Sanity -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/20/2009 12:52:28 PM)


Anyone who hangs with either the KKK or Jeremiah Wright for over twenty years has some kind of problem, and if it isn't racism then its severe retardation.



DomKen -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/20/2009 2:56:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Obama has been associated intimately with racists for twenty years. That's the same in your eyes as being in a crowd of millions that might include a handful of racists?

Your sense of proportionality is way off, ken. You might want to get it checked.


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
Back to guilt by association. Didn't you claim to have marched in a local 9/12 event? It's been established that those events included racists. By your own standard what does that make you?



There was a crowd of millions at your local march? Should I expect 5+ year old photos of some other event as confirmation?

As to proportionality, you're back to arguing guilt by association and now down to arguing how close the association is. You'll need to provide some objective measure of how much association is enough to make someone guilty. I will of course use your standard to condemn the entire right wing. But please continue, your contortions have been hilarious, pathetic but hilarious.




DomKen -> RE: Matthew Norman: The insanity and enduring racism of the American right (9/20/2009 3:04:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
Given that certain groups are genetically predisposed to certain illnesses (sometimes exclusively) and newer genetic advances are revealing other differences which merit being taken into account when formulating treatment plans, I think the broadness of that definition will need some revising. When it becomes technically "racist" merely to acknowledge that such differences exist, the word has lost all meaning. Racism, or at least certainly the kind of racism we're concerned about, involves perjorative judgments of and abusive behavior toward those who are different by virtue of race. In my view, the critical element of racism lies not in the main clause of that definition but rather in the "especially" clause

This is completely untrue.

No genetic condition is exclusive to any single ethnic group. Genetic advances are actually continually revealing how very little difference there is amongst us. For instance the entire human race not recently descended from east Africans is more closely related genetically than 2 people born 100 miles apart in East Africa.

Let me make this clear, there is more genetic variation amongst the natives of Ethopia, Somalia and Eritria than there is in all the rest of us. The only conceivable scientific basis for any sort of racism would be for East Africans to feel superior to the rest of us.



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