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RE: A slaves refusal - 9/23/2009 6:35:13 PM

CougarStud

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Joined: 7/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey

Really! Come on guys, this is a little much huh? Her refusal to sing is not going to destroy their relationship!! Aren't we putting a little too much emphasis on this?

WHO said anything about destroying a relationship???? I got mad and said "okay,don't sing" and asked a question about what it could possibly mean and how to deal with it and I have gotten fine advise. I am not one to immediatly react to my emotional response, but rather to logically think about how best to deal with it.

It is not the singing that bothers me but her refusal of something so simple and playful.

I now see it could be:

1. early trama.
2. she doesn't understand her role
3. she is a spoiled brat
4. she is not comfortable enough with me to let down her guard

or it could be a number of other things and it is my job to calmly figure it out and decide if it is an important issue or not.

All I said was that it mad me really mad and nothing more.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

As much as the v word gets a bad rap around here, starting out "vanilla" with a bit of d/s isn't such a terrible, awful thing. You are learning, she is learning. Learn together and change your relationship as you go and as you both feel comfortable. If you honestly think you two would be a good match, you might want to consider setting the rules where you are comfortable now and seeing where things go.

I've done enough "vanilla" to know that is what I DO NOT want ever again!!!

< Message edited by CougarStud -- 9/23/2009 6:38:58 PM >

(in reply to Sunnyfey)

Post #: 21

RE: A slaves refusal - 9/23/2009 6:38:52 PM

Level

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quote:

Chimortis wrote:

Personally, my take is this: when dealing with an outright refusal, rather than immediately reacting negatively, I prefer to question why. I will not react negatively unless I receive no explanation, or an explanation which does not make sense.

Pretty good advice there, which I'd likely follow, depending on what kind of mood I was in

She thought it was "uncool".... ay, yi.

Either she's going to have to do what you want, or not. That's either going to have to be okay with you, or not.

Get back in the car... ask her to sing again. She says "no", pull over. Look her in the eye, and ask her how "cool" disobeying you is. How "cool" letting you down is. Get an answer, not some bullshit "I don't know" mumbly nonsense. Then evaluate.

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(in reply to Sunnyfey)

Post #: 22

RE: A slaves refusal - 9/23/2009 6:38:53 PM

DesFIP

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From the moment you started talking to her online you've referred to her as a spoiled brat. If you really think this is what she is, and you dislike her so much, then why did you bother to meet her? And just because her family is economically more advantaged than you are does not make her spoiled, it may make her protected and naive instead. Your problems with her higher income is your problem and not something you should use against her.

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Post #: 23

RE: A slaves refusal - 9/23/2009 6:39:00 PM

Chimortis

Posts: 39
Joined: 8/29/2009
From: Morgantown, WV
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CougarStud

I think she is wanting a mostly vanilla relationship with me and a bit of the D/s

Sooooo... is this a thing to which you are amenable? Furthermore, if this a situation in which you can see yourself being happy and fulfilled in the long term?

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Post #: 24

RE: A slaves refusal - 9/23/2009 6:44:09 PM

CougarStud

Posts: 105
Joined: 7/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chimortis
Sooooo... is this a thing to which you are amenable? Furthermore, if this a situation in which you can see yourself being happy and fulfilled in the long term?

NOOOOOOOOOO!!! No vanilla please!! LOL! I can't go there! she is willing to work hard and I am happy with her progress and I am goiing slow &steady as to not overwhelm he, but not coddling her either.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

From the moment you started talking to her online you've referred to her as a spoiled brat. If you really think this is what she is, and you dislike her so much, then why did you bother to meet her? And just because her family is economically more advantaged than you are does not make her spoiled, it may make her protected and naive instead. Your problems with her higher income is your problem and not something you should use against her.

I said she was a spoiled brat because her father never said no to her and let her do what she wanted. I am quite a bit better off than her family, so I do not know where you got the idea it was a money issue.

(in reply to Chimortis)

Post #: 25

RE: A slaves refusal - 9/23/2009 6:44:15 PM

LadyNTrainer

Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey

Really! Come on guys, this is a little much huh? Her refusal to sing is not going to destroy their relationship!! Aren't we putting a little too much emphasis on this?

Refusal to sing does not a relationship destroy. Radically different expectations about what each person signed up for in the relationship certainly can, however.

The issue here is not singing specifically, but someone who has stated their intent to be a "slave" disobeying a fairly simple command because the results might be uncomfortable or embarrassing. That is indeed a potentially serious issue, not because of the singing, but because this person's definition of "slave" seems to be "vanilla with a little kink, but I'm not gonna do anything for you that I don't actually feel like doing."

If both people end up on the same page in their expectations, there is nothing WRONG with a vanilla relationship that doesn't involve serious power exchange or the obligation to be pleasing and obedient even when it's uncomfy. But if one person signed on for an owner/slave relationship and the other wants vanilla, then you do have serious issues that need a lot of discussion and negotiation. And even then they may not be resolvable if both people want and need substantially different levels of D/s power exchange.

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(in reply to Sunnyfey)

Post #: 26

RE: A slaves refusal - 9/23/2009 6:46:14 PM

Sunnyfey

Posts: 1436
Joined: 9/21/2007
From: OK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CougarStud

WHO said anything about destroying a relationship???? I got mad and said "okay,don't sing" and asked a question about what it could possibly mean and how to deal with it and I have gotten fine advise. I am not one to immediatly react to my emotional response, but rather to logically think about how best to deal with it.

It is not the singing that bothers me but her refusal of something so simple and playful.

I now see it could be:

1. early trama.
2. she doesn't understand her role
3. she is a spoiled brat
4. she is not comfortable enough with me to let down her guard

or it could be a number of other things and it is my job to calmly figure it out and decide if it is an important issue or not.

All I said was that it mad me really mad and nothing more.

So because she said no to you asking her to sing, when it clearly made her uncomfortable, so you asked her to do it twice more, and she still said no. And you are now on here asking for advice on how to fix the "problem", and shes the one acting like a spoiled brat?

Pot kettle?

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Post #: 27

RE: A slaves refusal - 9/23/2009 6:48:17 PM

AquaticSub

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Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CougarStud

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

As much as the v word gets a bad rap around here, starting out "vanilla" with a bit of d/s isn't such a terrible, awful thing. You are learning, she is learning. Learn together and change your relationship as you go and as you both feel comfortable. If you honestly think you two would be a good match, you might want to consider setting the rules where you are comfortable now and seeing where things go.

I've done enough "vanilla" to know that is what I DO NOT want ever again!!!

Define vanilla.

I'm serious. Define it. Define what you think it means in a relationship and then sit down and talk to her about your defination and what you want out of your relationship. Make sure what you want right now is what you are capable of handling (as sexy as may be, most people can't jump into mirco-managing their slave's life).

What I am attemping to suggest is that is might not such a bad thing for a dominant-inclined person and a submissive-inclined person who are both very new to not jump into making a lot of rules, commands or d/s structure. Valyraen and I operated this way for a little under a year because he was new, wasn't sure how comfortable he was, and I didn't feel like pushing him. But our dynamic was quietly and unoffically dom/sub because that is who we are. Be patient. Not only are you starting a new relationship, you are learning a new way of how to conduct a relationship. It's going to be awkward and there will be mistakes.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 9/23/2009 6:49:51 PM >

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Post #: 28

RE: A slaves refusal - 9/23/2009 6:56:41 PM

CougarStud

Posts: 105
Joined: 7/24/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey

So because she said no to you asking her to sing, when it clearly made her uncomfortable, so you asked her to do it twice more, and she still said no. And you are now on here asking for advice on how to fix the "problem", and shes the one acting like a spoiled brat?

Pot kettle?

Her hard limits are fucking animals or men & scat. Other than that she said she would do as I asked. And yes, I expect that she will do as I say. If she can't do a little thing, what will happen when a bigger more important issue arises?

She has been her 3 weeks and I am very proud of how well she has done

and at this minute she has no ideas that I am upset that she wouldn't do as I asked. That will happen when it is time to have a heart to heart discussion.

(in reply to Sunnyfey)

Post #: 29

RE: A slaves refusal - 9/23/2009 6:59:17 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CougarStud

and at this minute she has no ideas that I am upset that she wouldn't do as I asked. That will happen when it is time to have a heart to heart discussion.

Just making sure - You are planning on having that discussion before you decide to cancel any plans right?

Edited to add: The hard limits you mentioned were sexual. Did you make certain that you told her your commands would extend to non-sexual things, like commanding her to sing? If she is new to this, I wouldn't consider it unreasonable for it to just not have occured to her that you expect everything to be obeyed, particularly if she had stated a preference for a more vanilla situation.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 9/23/2009 7:07:09 PM >

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Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

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Post #: 30

RE: A slaves refusal - 9/23/2009 7:02:08 PM

Lockit

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Joined: 5/7/2007
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If I had to sing it would not be a refusal of... it isn't cool... more like wtf... turn on the radio, my singing is not going to happen and it isn't from childhood truma or being spoiled or anything other than... I suck at singing and am not going to just get over it with one request. Okay... I used to help scout for musicians and I know a good voice... I have a tolerable one under the best of circumstances and have sang a couple times when pushed at a bar... but I am not a singer.

If a challenge and I mean an actual challenge or refusal to do something reasonable or not to you... makes you that mad... rethink what you are doing. You think she didn't pick up on how mad you were? Of course she did. Your deal is new to both of you and your getting mad over something like this will not build trust. She has been clear with you... told you where she is coming from and you are coming off as angry and spoiled in not getting what you want.

You don't want vanilla... don't get someone who claims to be mostly vanilla. You want her to give all her trust over something she doesn't like doing and do it or you get mad and that isn't the basis for much of anything most the time, but a break up.

You are on about what a submissive should be doing... let's start with what a dominant should be doing.

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Post #: 31

RE: A slaves refusal - 9/23/2009 7:05:25 PM

LadyNTrainer

Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey
So because she said no to you asking her to sing, when it clearly made her uncomfortable, so you asked her to do it twice more, and she still said no. And you are now on here asking for advice on how to fix the "problem", and shes the one acting like a spoiled brat?

As Inigo Montoya once said, I do not think this word means what you think it means. I'm referring to the word "slave", which is what she is being identified as. The "slave" is not being asked to eat poo or have sex with animals, nor is she being harmed in any way. She is being asked to perform entertainingly for her Master/Syr/Owner. If she is unwilling to be obedient in this simple way, then it is probably not appropriate to refer to her as a "slave" at all. Unless there are some extreme mitigating circumstances such as past trauma, I'd say the relationship needs serious discussing and negotiating if the initial expectation did in fact involve a real power exchange dynamic.

_____________________________

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Post #: 32

RE: A slaves refusal - 9/23/2009 7:09:43 PM

Lockit

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The thing is... the lady... vanilla... maybe a bit submissive or into it all... is being called a slave, but I would bet money she deep inside doesn't feel she is a slave.

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Post #: 33

RE: A slaves refusal - 9/23/2009 7:14:42 PM

Sunnyfey

Posts: 1436
Joined: 9/21/2007
From: OK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey
So because she said no to you asking her to sing, when it clearly made her uncomfortable, so you asked her to do it twice more, and she still said no. And you are now on here asking for advice on how to fix the "problem", and shes the one acting like a spoiled brat?

As Inigo Montoya once said, I do not think this word means what you think it means. I'm referring to the word "slave", which is what she is being identified as. The "slave" is not being asked to eat poo or have sex with animals, nor is she being harmed in any way. She is being asked to perform entertainingly for her Master/Syr/Owner. If she is unwilling to be obedient in this simple way, then it is probably not appropriate to refer to her as a "slave" at all. Unless there are some extreme mitigating circumstances such as past trauma, I'd say the relationship needs serious discussing and negotiating if the initial expectation did in fact involve a real power exchange dynamic.

Oh I totally agree on that point, I don't think she self ID's as a slave, without his input.

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Post #: 34

RE: A slaves refusal - 9/23/2009 7:16:16 PM

CougarStud

Posts: 105
Joined: 7/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
Just making sure - You are planning on having that discussion before you decide to cancel any plans right?

Like I said, I do not blindly react to my emotions, I calmly think first.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit
If I had to sing it would not be a refusal of... it isn't cool... more like wtf... turn on the radio, my singing is not going to happen and it isn't from childhood truma or being spoiled or anything other than... I suck at singing and am not going to just get over it with one request. Okay... I used to help scout for musicians and I know a good voice... I have a tolerable one under the best of circumstances and have sang a couple times when pushed at a bar... but I am not a singer.

If a challenge and I mean an actual challenge or refusal to do something reasonable or not to you... makes you that mad... rethink what you are doing. You think she didn't pick up on how mad you were? Of course she did. Your deal is new to both of you and your getting mad over something like this will not build trust. She has been clear with you... told you where she is coming from and you are coming off as angry and spoiled in not getting what you want.

You don't want vanilla... don't get someone who claims to be mostly vanilla. You want her to give all her trust over something she doesn't like doing and do it or you get mad and that isn't the basis for much of anything most the time, but a break up.

You are on about what a submissive should be doing... let's start with what a dominant should be doing.

I'm doing a good job. In 3 weeks she is opening upto conversation, has lost 7 lbs, learned to eat healthy, is exercising regularly and learning to eat in a resurant with proper manners, learned how to clean a house (mommy did it all back home, learning to follow a buget and save & has learned how to answer politely.

I now spend about 5 to 8 hours a day helping her on her journey and focued on her hapiness & contentment in her new role. I have only pushed her enough tomake her know she can do things she previously thought andoable.

So yes, I know damn well what my role is!

(in reply to Lockit)

Post #: 35

RE: A slaves refusal - 9/23/2009 7:20:08 PM

CougarStud

Posts: 105
Joined: 7/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

The thing is... the lady... vanilla... maybe a bit submissive or into it all... is being called a slave, but I would bet money she deep inside doesn't feel she is a slave.

A great point Lockit.....maybe THAT is the discussion we need to be having!

(in reply to Lockit)

Post #: 36

RE: A slaves refusal - 9/23/2009 7:20:22 PM

DavanKael

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It appears that your girl is not a slave and does not wish to have that as a constant dynamic yet the tone of some of your posts, CougarStud, appears to be the ever stereotypical getting into a relationship and believing you're going to change them or persuade them to be something you desire but they don't. Such endeavors generally go poorly. I would urge that you guys sit down and actually talk about what's going on in each of your heads and see if you are able to move forward. The singing is just a symptom here, not nearly the crux of the matter.
Best wishes,
Davan

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Post #: 37

RE: A slaves refusal - 9/23/2009 7:24:02 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CougarStud

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
Just making sure - You are planning on having that discussion before you decide to cancel any plans right?

Like I said, I do not blindly react to my emotions, I calmly think first.

That actually doesn't answer the question. You can very calmly decide that you don't like the fact that she balked at anything and that you are leaving, inform her of this, and leave. That would be well within your rights (however much some would disagree with it) and would be what some dominants would do in your shoes. This is why I am asking.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to CougarStud)

Post #: 38

RE: A slaves refusal - 9/23/2009 7:36:28 PM

flogger

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Am reading and thinking.

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Post #: 39

RE: A slaves refusal - 9/23/2009 8:14:34 PM

sweetsub1957

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Joined: 4/28/2009
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In the first place, does she, deep down inside, ID as a slave? I've had Doms insist on calling me a slave even though I tell them "I am NOT a slave!!" Maybe she considers herself a submissive & therefore with more say? As far as the singing goes, if she's uncomfortable with her singing voice or just singing in general, she's gonna have to really trust You before she can cut loose in song.....if she ever does. When I first met Sir, if He'd asked me that I'd have looked at Him like He was nuts, but now I'd sing. It could simply be a matter of trust too.

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Post #: 40

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