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RE: A slaves refusal - 9/25/2009 3:16:28 AM   
PowerOverU


Posts: 16
Joined: 8/22/2009
Status: offline 		Is it me or is "slave" a title that comes with certain parameters? One of them being no right to refuse unless the refusal is either accompanied by a REALLY REALLY good reason or it had previously been established as a limit. It sounds like a more accurate description of the relationship would be that she's a sub training to be a slave and you're a Dom training to be a Master. If she has little to no experience as a sub she can;t be a slave. You must crawl before you can walk. You wouldn't hire a 25 year old with four years experience as VP of a multimillion dollar company would you? No. He gets to be a Junior Execute and has to work his way up to the title of VP through training and experience.
There's that word again...title.

As an example, I am considering two girls to be my slave. One is FULLY in slave mentality. I haven't had her move in yet but when we cam I literally can't find anything she won't do that doesn't disgust me. I'm searching. I literally sit at work thinking of fucked up shit to test her limits and she's just does everything and smiles. She's a SLAVE

Now my other girl wants to start vanilla with a twist of D/s and eventually work to be a slave. I have no problem with this either. But she is what she is. She is not a slave and won't be one for quite a while. What I desire in the end does not make her what she is. What she is is what she is and she is not a slave.

Your girl is not a slave. She's a sub training to be a slave. I don't have much experience in owning but I do know there needs to be a SHIT TON of communication in the very beginning or you're just going to run into road bumps all along the way.



< Message edited by PowerOverU -- 9/25/2009 3:17:06 AM >

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 121
RE: A slaves refusal - 9/25/2009 4:41:48 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PowerOverU
I literally sit at work thinking of fucked up shit to test her limits and she's just does everything and smiles.

Your girl is not a slave. She's a sub training to be a slave.


Now see I see both the OP's situation and this situation very differently. Firstly anyone can call themself whatever they please... but that doesn't dictate how others will see them through their actions... if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and sounds like a duck... people will see a duck and a label around it's neck saying "I'm a cat" won't change that fact.

The OP has a dynamic that hit a hurdle, it took maybe a little longer to get over that hurdle than I would but the Master is just learning. The important thing is that they DID get over it with the Dynamic intact... she sang... she obeyed and they both learned.... The Dynamic is there then they are both what *I* would recognise as Master and slave. inexperienced maybe but living in the Dynamic and dealing with issues as they arise naturaly.

Someone who has to sit at work thinking of "fucked up shit to test her limits" strikes Me as someone who hasn't the first clue as to what any of this is about. Not someone *I* am likely to see as a Master, therefore not a dynamic I am going to view as M/s..... her reactions maybe slave but she isn't IMO being Mastered. I see this poster as having far more to learn than the OP... especially given he doesn't seem to realise that fact.

The situation in the OP arose naturally, the hurdle was found, the problem solved and learned from... in the process the girl found she didn't need to be afraid of doing that with her Master and so she did it. It wasn't Him looking for 'fucked up' things to put her through.... her limits will expand quite naturally to meet the requirements of a compatible Master  just doing what comes naturally.... some of which maybe look fucked up from outside of the relationship but it evolved naturally from the inside.


_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to PowerOverU)
Profile   Post #: 122
RE: A slaves refusal - 9/25/2009 5:33:21 AM   
kallisto


Posts: 1185
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

There's a big difference when the first words out of a sub's mouth are "I'm not sure how good I think I'll be at this..." as opposed to "No." One is an indication of the desire to obey, but having inner conflicting issues that make it difficult and the other is plain irreverence.


I stopped reading the replies when I saw this.   I stopped here because yes, I've said that very statement.    When my self confidence is lacking in doing a task I've  been told to do, this is how I feel whether or not I express it verbally.   Although it's never been said to let me off the  hook, just to simply let him know that I was not confident or secure in doing what I was told to do. 

However, inexperience, immaturity, or lacking in communication and "expectations" would be things that come to mind when a "no" is the first words out of a sub's mouth.   

(in reply to NihilusZero)
Profile   Post #: 123
RE: A slaves refusal - 9/25/2009 6:17:14 AM   
CougarStud


Posts: 105
Joined: 7/24/2009
Status: offline 		Just to clarify, in my opening post, I never said anything about ending the relationship.  I just said I was mad enough to want to take her home. 
My home is her home now.  If I "took her  home" it would have been to my house where we both live.  But obviously I did not want to do this, I wanted to use this situation for both of us to learn & grow and we both did. I'm glad I brought my laptop and I am thankful to those of you that were willing to gine your insight.

I rode all 5 of the roller coasters at Busch Gardens yesterday, some of them I rode 3 & 4 times for a total of 10 rides.  There we no lines at all on any of the rides yesterday.  It was a perfect day and my slave and I grew much closer after our talk the night before and the best day ever at an Amusement Park!

My slave rode one with me right at the beginning.  It scared the heck out of her and she did not want to ride any roller coasters  again all day (even though she loves Amusement  Parks more than me)

I did not commant that she do it either....LOL.


(in reply to kallisto)
Profile   Post #: 124
RE: A slaves refusal - 9/26/2009 10:15:21 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey
Really! Come on guys, this is a little much huh? Her refusal to sing is not going to destroy their relationship!! Aren't we putting a little too much emphasis on this? 
It would mine. Well, it wouldn't ruin our relationship, but it would spell the end of her slave collar. But it's worth noting that my position with Carol is somewhat different. We are not brand new with each other.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Sunnyfey)
Profile   Post #: 125
RE: A slaves refusal - 9/26/2009 12:36:20 PM   
CelticPrince


Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

So I am driving to Busch Gardens to take my new slave to a 2 day trip. I was driving and I asked her to sing to me, she said she doesn't sing. I said neither do I but that I would show her it could be done and sang an old Lefty Frizzel tune. She siad she still wouldn't sing.

After a nice steak dinner I told her I would like her to sing a simple nursery ryhme and again she refused. I am about to take her back home without going to the Amusement Park in the morning (I am too tired to drive home tonight)

I need advise.


CS,

A "slave does not refuse period! perhaps what you really have is a Dominant /submissive relationship which is a whole lot different.

CP

(in reply to CougarStud)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: A slaves refusal - 9/26/2009 1:00:54 PM   
bliss4us09


Posts: 106
Joined: 3/31/2009
Status: offline 		It sounds like she's too new in the relationship to fully trust you and that you're too new in it to know where her blocks are. Sometimes these are quite surprising - I once had a majority of a class I was teaching tell me they would rather have anal sex with a stranger than tell him what they were afraid of. So - start slow, learn more about her, and build trust by asking her to do incrementally more difficult things for you.

(in reply to CougarStud)
Profile   Post #: 127
RE: A slaves refusal - 9/26/2009 6:35:27 PM   
shadowowl


Posts: 198
Joined: 5/31/2004
Status: offline 		wow 5 pages cause a slave didn't wnat to sing :P  consider a limit and move on.   If you're a good Domme you will figure out how to push that limit and get what you want.  if not then it's the trainer not the slave that is in error.  I'm sick of D's that think cause someoen is a "slave"  they don't need training or any effort and should just automatically do everything you say even if you just met them.   Inexperianced D is my impression of the entire situation.
But that's just my opinion ^_^ 


(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: A slaves refusal - 9/26/2009 9:39:59 PM   
RealSub58


Posts: 1073
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CougarStud

Thanks all of you again for your imput.

I sat down with my slave and had a discussion about what being a slave meant ,and if she felt like this is how she wanted to live.  We talked about the differences between a slave and a submissive.  We talked about if she trusted me.  Then she sang.




The sun came out and dried up the rain !!
The sun shone and the daisies were bright and beautiful.

The rain came and the house founded on sand fell flat.

Yes you ARE new to this . . . .  

From OP's journal - - "I was quite shocked when I saw what I had purchased when she stepped off the plane.  I immediately put her on a diet & exercise program." 

I am wondering how much you paid for this fat lazy bratty girl child?


< Message edited by RealSub58 -- 9/26/2009 9:43:46 PM >

(in reply to CougarStud)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: A slaves refusal - 9/26/2009 10:04:23 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		How sad... I mean really... that is pathetic.

You know... thinking on that for a moment... didn't the op state on that thread I linked in my other post... that she was working on the young ladies diet and such before she got here. Somehow... the op doesn't communicate things so well. You never know when you are getting the straight story the way she words things, expects things, seems to brag and now seems to imply she did something after seeing what she purchased, that she said before her purchase got there... that she already started.

I was trying to think I was too hard on her... I won't do that again.

< Message edited by Lockit -- 9/26/2009 10:09:16 PM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to RealSub58)
Profile   Post #: 130
RE: A slaves refusal - 9/27/2009 2:15:16 AM   
Bimtrain


Posts: 40
Joined: 8/14/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RavenMuse

quote:

ORIGINAL: PowerOverU
I literally sit at work thinking of fucked up shit to test her limits and she's just does everything and smiles.

Your girl is not a slave. She's a sub training to be a slave.


Now see I see both the OP's situation and this situation very differently. Firstly anyone can call themself whatever they please... but that doesn't dictate how others will see them through their actions... if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and sounds like a duck... people will see a duck and a label around it's neck saying "I'm a cat" won't change that fact.

The OP has a dynamic that hit a hurdle, it took maybe a little longer to get over that hurdle than I would but the Master is just learning. The important thing is that they DID get over it with the Dynamic intact... she sang... she obeyed and they both learned.... The Dynamic is there then they are both what *I* would recognise as Master and slave. inexperienced maybe but living in the Dynamic and dealing with issues as they arise naturaly.

Someone who has to sit at work thinking of "fucked up shit to test her limits" strikes Me as someone who hasn't the first clue as to what any of this is about. Not someone *I* am likely to see as a Master, therefore not a dynamic I am going to view as M/s..... her reactions maybe slave but she isn't IMO being Mastered. I see this poster as having far more to learn than the OP... especially given he doesn't seem to realise that fact.

The situation in the OP arose naturally, the hurdle was found, the problem solved and learned from... in the process the girl found she didn't need to be afraid of doing that with her Master and so she did it. It wasn't Him looking for 'fucked up' things to put her through.... her limits will expand quite naturally to meet the requirements of a compatible Master  just doing what comes naturally.... some of which maybe look fucked up from outside of the relationship but it evolved naturally from the inside.



I described a VERY small portion of the dynamic of my relationship with a slave who is being considered by me for collaring. I gave this as an example for a point I was making, that point being that the word "No" is not in a real slaves vocabulary (and I don't mean literally. It's a figure of speech). I wasn't looking for judgements on my own relationships, at least not in this thread! FYI, that slave whom I am considering wants her limits (or lack thereof) tested and pushed to extremes. She doesn't want to be brought about slowly and carefully. If I don't do this than I fail her as a Dom.

The verbiage was crude because I was also quoting a movie, those who recognized it might have gotten a chuckle out of it.

My apologies for hijacking the thread. As you were.

(in reply to RavenMuse)
Profile   Post #: 131
RE: A slaves refusal - 9/27/2009 3:54:12 AM   
PowerOverU


Posts: 16
Joined: 8/22/2009
Status: offline 		Damnit, I did it again. The above reply should have been under this name.

(in reply to Bimtrain)
Profile   Post #: 132
RE: A slaves refusal - 9/27/2009 6:43:24 AM   
masterlink65


Posts: 683
Joined: 11/3/2007
Status: offline 		uncool or not, in privacy of your car or hotel. the simple task of making song should not be denied its master.


refusal due to being uncool: unacceptable

what i would do is give it speech restriction. thats what i would do. if you cannot sing, then you are not allowed to speak, go lay down.

a slave is there for its masters use. sing me a fucking song. NOW

(in reply to CougarStud)
Profile   Post #: 133
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