RE: Indoctrination centers (Full Version)

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TheHeretic -> RE: Indoctrination centers (9/24/2009 8:39:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MichiganHeadmast

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


You want to see a quick 180 in this discussion on the part of the left let someone release a video where the school kids are singing the praises of Bush.  

[;)]



No, Sanity.  When Republicans are in office, kids don't praise, they write letters protesting stuff (global warming, hunger, war, whatever).  When God's Elect are in office, THEN they sing praises. 




Actually, their teachers lead them out into the streets to march and learn the importance of dissent in the American political process. 




Arpig -> RE: Indoctrination centers (9/24/2009 8:47:29 PM)

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I'm an Obama supporter, and I think this singing lesson is completely inappropriate. It's one thing to honor major national heroes. It's quite another to teach children to sing the praises of a sitting President, whoever s/he is. I realize perfect objectivity is impossible, but I think teachers should endeavor to cover politics and current events as neutrally as possible.
Exactamundo!!!!! Its terribly inappropriate to teach children songs praising (or condemning) a sitting President. After he leaves office there will be plenty of time to sing his praises (assuming he lives up to his promise and actually achieves something worth praising). I am not surprised actually,and not because of some Obamaist cult of the personality, but rather the hero worship applied to the Presidency in general and to those who occupied the post. In his day Lincoln was reviled and hated, hated enough that somebody killed him...yet today everybody loves him and praises him for issuing a proclamation that freed few slaves (the majority of slaves under Union control were specifically not freed) and was intended to gain the support of the New England "lefties" of the day...that and there was a rather vain hope it might cause a slave revolt in the South. Yet he is now a hero and schoolchildren sing songs about him....even that is something I find a little disconcerting...I can't imagine school kids in Canada singing songs in praise of one of our Prime Ministers, but then again we have always celebrated their humanity rather than deify them.




TheHeretic -> RE: Indoctrination centers (9/24/2009 8:51:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig
I can't imagine school kids in Canada singing songs in praise of one of our Prime Ministers, but then again we have always celebrated their humanity rather than deify them.



How about a "God save the Queen," Arpig?  U.S. Presidents are both the political head of state, and the symbolic one.

It still doesn't make this appropriate, but I don't think the analogy is valid.




Arpig -> RE: Indoctrination centers (9/24/2009 8:55:22 PM)

quote:

IF this was for Black History Month, would it still be inappropriate?
Yup. Blackness has nothing to do with its inappropriateness (Gadzooks I am agreeing with Leirin and gift4...oh woe is me, I shall loose my lefty card over this for sure[:o]).




worthlesstrash -> RE: Indoctrination centers (9/24/2009 8:56:07 PM)

I am happy to celebrate that we have our first black president..no problem. I am however not into letting my kids be used as ploys in some political praise and worship jig.






Arpig -> RE: Indoctrination centers (9/24/2009 8:59:56 PM)

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Concerning Abraham Lincoln and slavery: I’ve always thought it a little unfair to criticize Lincoln for making saving the Union his first priority. Saving the Union was a prerequisite to ending slavery. If he didn’t save the Union – if the southern States succeeded in establishing their independence – then the Union would no longer have the political authority to end slavery.
Well except for those pesky slave states that remained part of the Union......[8|]




SpinnerofTales -> RE: Indoctrination centers (9/24/2009 9:02:55 PM)

quote:

Yup. Blackness has nothing to do with its inappropriateness (Gadzooks I am agreeing with Leirin and gift4...oh woe is me, I shall loose my lefty card over this for sure).
ORIGINAL: Arpig




It's ok, Ar....I happen to agree with them too that this was a bit over the edge. Celebrate the first black president during black history month..ok. Start throwing policy approval in..not ok. The teacher made an undeniable mistake in this one. I don't think there'll be a lot of disagreement on that from left or right.




Arpig -> RE: Indoctrination centers (9/24/2009 9:03:02 PM)

Never mind...I'm a history geek, but its already been addressed.[:-]




SpinnerofTales -> RE: Indoctrination centers (9/24/2009 9:08:00 PM)

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Isn't that enough? Do you find your gratuitous ridicule amusing?
ORIGINAL: Kirata


Just curious.

K.



Actually, sometimes I do...not all the time...but sometimes. And I feel, without by an means suggesting that I'm being picked on, that I get as good as I give and vice versa. It is interesting you only notice one side of that equation.





Arpig -> RE: Indoctrination centers (9/24/2009 9:09:16 PM)

quote:

How about a "God save the Queen," Arpig? U.S. Presidents are both the political head of state, and the symbolic one.

It still doesn't make this appropriate, but I don't think the analogy is valid.
True enough, very good point. I hadn't considered the symbolic head of state angle. It does make a certain amount of sense actually and explains some of the "sacredness" surrounding the Presidency in the American mind set. Thanks for pointing that out. [:)]




Marc2b -> RE: Indoctrination centers (9/24/2009 9:14:12 PM)

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Well except for those pesky slave states that remained part of the Union......


What of it? The Union didn't move to ban slavery right away in order to not push the border States (as slave states still in the Union were called) into joining the Confederacy. Had the southern states won the Union may have been hesitant to ban slavery right away for the same reason but they still would have had the authority - and in time they probably would have moved to ban slavery anyway. They most certainly would not have had the authority, however, over those States that had succesfully secceded.




SpinnerofTales -> RE: Indoctrination centers (9/24/2009 9:19:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

Well except for those pesky slave states that remained part of the Union......


What of it? The Union didn't move to ban slavery right away in order to not push the border States (as slave states still in the Union were called) into joining the Confederacy. Had the southern states won the Union may have been hesitant to ban slavery right away for the same reason but they still would have had the authority - and in time they probably would have moved to ban slavery anyway. They most certainly would not have had the authority, however, over those States that had succesfully secceded.


Ok.....I have no idea of the validity of these quotes, as I have not ever claimed to be an expert on Lincon, but I post this link for those who might want to check it out further:
http://www.americanstalin.com/




tazzygirl -> RE: Indoctrination centers (9/24/2009 9:24:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

IF this was for Black History Month, would it still be inappropriate?
Yup. Blackness has nothing to do with its inappropriateness (Gadzooks I am agreeing with Leirin and gift4...oh woe is me, I shall loose my lefty card over this for sure[:o]).


Arpig, Arpig, surely by now you know how my mind works




gift4mistress -> RE: Indoctrination centers (9/24/2009 9:25:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Political science and history were not my favorite subjects.


And it shows...




tazzygirl -> RE: Indoctrination centers (9/24/2009 9:27:16 PM)

tsk tsk... lol... i learn alot by jumping into these debates. However, i know when to keep my mouth shut on things i know little about. perhaps something you should learn yourself.




Marc2b -> RE: Indoctrination centers (9/24/2009 9:48:35 PM)

quote:

Ok.....I have no idea of the validity of these quotes, as I have not ever claimed to be an expert on Lincon, but I post this link for those who might want to check it out further:
http://www.americanstalin.com/


The Fact that Lincoln was not as morally pure, when it comes to race relations, as we would like him to have been is nothing new to me. The point remains - saving the Union had to come before freeing the slaves. Had the Union been torn in two then the Union government would have had no more authority to free the slaves in, say, South Carolina than the United States could now ban pot smoking in Jamaica - the jurisdiction just doesn't exist.

Truth be told, the Confederacy probably would have ended slavery eventually - it was the wave of the nineteenth century - but it would not have happened for a least another twenty to thirty years.




MrRodgers -> RE: Indoctrination centers (9/24/2009 10:31:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gift4mistress

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

Folks, I hate to inject a rational thought an spoil the hysteria, but you really don't have to worry about the "indoctrination" of school kids. Obama has at tops, about 7 years to go in the white house. He will, by constitutional law, be out of office before these kids can vote. I also doubt one nice song about the president is going to warp their fragile little minds.

As for singing the praises of the first black president during black history month, I again don't see a huge need to get one's panties in a bunch. If he were Irish and they sang it on St. Patrick's day, I'd be ok too. If they had done it about Bush on Stupid Texan day, I'd have had no major problem.

Once again, it seems that some people are so outraged that Obama is president that anything that doesn't paint him as the anti-christ is viewed as indoctrination.

Oh and Gift? Just as I have in past posts and on other threads, I kindly ask you to stop the Hitler crap....Obama is not Hitler, not Stalin, not Jesus and not the boogy man. He's a politician doing his job and had nothing do with this.

Now, if you want to talk about this in reasonable terms as an educational decision, I might have more agreement than disagreement with you. But until you turn down the monster shouting, forgive me if I don't take you terribly seriously.




I Believe you are lacking a perspective on the long term damage that will become of this type of propaganda. For one, these kids will grow up thinking that Obama was a great president regardless if he was or wasn't; thus, it properly secures the liberal ideology in the children.

In addition, this type of "teaching" is in fact very similar to what many dictators have done in the passed. For instance, Hitler, Stalin, and Hugo Chavez have used schools as tools to brain wash children. And, this is not teaching children about black people but having children praise someone. There is a difference.

Also, I think this has more to do with politics than Black History month. This is something political, liberal, and leftist. If they wanted to sing about someone for Black history month; they could do it on Martin Luther King who is somebody that has actually accomplished something that has affected the nation positively. So far, I have yet to see Obama do anything big other than decieve the people in to presidency.


In short, this should not be allowed nor tolerated in our school systems because it is harmful to this nation.

You would be correct if it were capitalist propaganda (and that has worked splendidly) but this is once again...the right grasping at straws. Add to that a bunch of reactionary school administrators and parents and you have a sound bite.

This is all more partisan vitriol not just mad that a liberal dem got elected pres. but that he is black.

It's ok that Bush continues to sit in Florida elementary school classroom while we are 'under attack' but don't let me sing his praises.




MrRodgers -> RE: Indoctrination centers (9/24/2009 10:42:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: worthlesstrash

I am happy to celebrate that we have our first black president..no problem. I am however not into letting my kids be used as ploys in some political praise and worship jig.

Get a grip. This is nothing like that. This whole INTERNET thing is unmitigated right wing bullshit.

This is no more brain-washing or Obamamania than it was during Reagan and 'It's morning in America again' whatever the fuck that meant.

The right has nothing anymore to offer the American people but these emotional outbursts and make claims of what all of this means...a liberal dem as pres. AND he is black. OMG !!






gift4mistress -> RE: Indoctrination centers (9/24/2009 10:53:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

However, i know when to keep my mouth shut on things i know little about.


Apparently you don't because you keep talking. Perhaps you should look up history on dictators such as Hitler, Stalin, and Castro. In their school systems, they have/had kids sing songs and do school activities on their beloved dictator.

As I said before, you are not nor have you ever been on topic. Instead, you just spit you opinions "I just dont see the need to scream about a group of kids singing a song about the first Black President [page 3 of this thread]." Well, ok how about you prove you fallacy statement. Personally, I see propaganda and similarities to what communistic and fascist government do to their children at their schools compared to what happened there.

You must think that I think or that I said that Obama is behind this. Or, you think that the article suggested this. When in fact, he is not responsible for this. He meaning OBAMA. This is also another one of you opinionated points that has nothing to do with this discussion.

However, the thing that scares me the most is that there are probably other teachers who also do these types of activities.

What frightens me even more is that there could people in a higher possession of authority who would support this.

The most devastating aspect of this situation is that their are people like you who are to ignorant to see the truly bad affects that these type of indoctrination practices has on our nation and society as a whole. Rather, you sit there and say that this is for "black history month." In that song there is NOTHING to do with black history. So let me ask you this question, what is the song about?

Perhaps you should take your own advice and keep your mouth shut. 





gift4mistress -> RE: Indoctrination centers (9/24/2009 10:59:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

You would be correct if it were capitalist propaganda (and that has worked splendidly) but this is once again...the right grasping at straws. Add to that a bunch of reactionary school administrators and parents and you have a sound bite.

The right has nothing anymore to offer the American people but these emotional outbursts and make claims of what all of this means...a liberal dem as pres. AND he is black. OMG !!



Wow, I wonder if you like capitalism? It seems to me that this can only be propaganda if it was to support capitalism according to your statement. And because it does not support capitalism it is good. I don't think I have ever herd a more demented argument in my life.

The right has nothing to offer America? LMAO. You are also moving off topic; this has nothing to do with the right or a black president. This topic has to do with a  teacher having children (who don't know any-better bye the way) to sing a song that praises OBAMA.






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