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RE: GRRRRRR Flip Flops - 3/9/2006 5:34:02 AM   
Cloudz


Posts: 836
Joined: 9/13/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrDiscipline44

truesub, it seems to me that you think that just because a Dom or Master listens to his sub/slave, he must act on eveything she expresses. This is simply not the case. For me it depends on what she's expressing, the reason behind what she's expressing (how rational it is) and it's over all effects that it may have.

For example: my current mate (free coompanion, wife, lover, significant other) expressed concern about the fact that I'm seeking a slave. She is not poly and had fears of me loving her less if there were to be another involved with me. I listened to her fear, wieghed how rational it was and told her that my feelings for her were unwaivering but if ever there were any doubts I would talk to her about them.

Three months later I met my current slave online. We talked, hit it off and decided we wanted more then just online. I told my mate and she stated again her fear. I stated again that my feelings for her had not changed but neither have my wants and needs for a slave. So I proceeded to enslave my slave but while doing so, have always been open, honest and listened to my mate.

I listened to my mates fears but instead of re-acting to them and not enslaving my girl, I ignored them and proceeded on with the enslavment. All the while reassuring my mate as to my feelings to her. A year and a half later, they both are still with me. My mate appreciates my slave for what she fulfills in me and our relationship.


Mr. D,

I find fault in only one thing that you said <gee, that must make you breathe easier..grin> I do not think you ignored your mate's fears. It sounds like you addressed them, more than once...and chose what you believed to be the wisest course of action for the 3 of you. THAT to me, is the mark of an excellent Dom.

_____________________________

Enjoy the Journey,
~Cloudz

"Life isn't about how to survive the storm, but how to dance in the rain."


(in reply to MrDiscipline44)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: GRRRRRR Flip Flops - 3/9/2006 5:37:28 AM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prunesquallor

Ah, sorry, I misunderstood. It's obviously me who needs the caffeine infusion. :)


no worries, Sir... i'm about to do an iv infusion...

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci


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RE: GRRRRRR Flip Flops - 3/9/2006 5:52:50 AM   
MrDiscipline44


Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

just as clarification on what i said there, that comment was said to one who has a "free companion, wife, lover and not into poly" i.e. (imo) the M/s dynamic between the two of them doesn't exist. He then decides to bring another into the mix, a 'slave'. my question was in reference to what the FREE companion/wife/lover, etc. could say to said one, who decided after x numbers of years he needed a little sumpin, sumpin on the side. And uses the M/s dynamic to FORCE the wife to accept said situation.

This, angelic, is not based on my statements at all. I never said we were together for any number of years and the need and/or want of the slave was not based on me just wanting alittle sumpin, sumpin on the side. If I wanted a little sumpin, sumpin all I would need to do is go to the local bar and pick one up. You're assumption is that my M/s dynamic is just a cover for having another girlfriend. It is not and to suggest that it is is to say that I'm being deceitful. That alone is just insulting when all you know of me is just a few posts. I would appreciate it if in the future, you present all of the facts of your question, instead of leaving things out.

_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: GRRRRRR Flip Flops - 3/9/2006 7:54:49 AM   
LadySonelle


Posts: 280
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: Santa Fe NM
Status: offline 		The whole concept of 'a slave has no rights' is (to Me) foolish. While a slave has fewer rights, less 'say-so' in what happens than a non-slave, the rights are present.

I used to have a guide dog. I am an Animal Rights supporter. My dog had certain rights and freedoms even though she was an animal that I 'owned'. She had the rights and freedoms that she was able to handle. In areas where she had no abilities or opinions, I held the rights and freedoms. IOW, she could choose the most comfortable spot she liked to sleep in, and I would, upon observing that, move her bed to that spot because she wanted it there. If she seemed, on a given day, to really *not* want to work in harness, I would take My mobility cane with Me and give her a day of rest. If she wanted to work, then we went out together and she was happy and content. These were areas where I permitted her choices.

On the other paw, she was a *dog* and had NO idea of proper nutrition. She might very much WANT to eat a dead bird or have innumerable treats, but she was not permitted this. I made the food choices because I had more knowledge. I made the training decisions because she needed her skill-set maintained. We compromised because she, as an animal, did have certain rights and I, as her owner, had certain rights.

For slaves, it is somewhat similar. I give My slaves freedoms in areas where they are competant. I withhold certain rights and freedoms in areas where I desire to change or affect them. My slaves' status as human beings give them certain rights, simply due to their status as sentient/sapient persons. Still, their voluntary status as slaves means that they relinquish certain rights and cede them to Me and to My governance. Compromise and control are the keywords to a good relationship between submissive and Dominant persons.

Lady Sonelle

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Come to My domain and read My Lessons online! http://www.LadySonelle.com then place yourself beneath My loving Hand!

(in reply to truesub4u)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: GRRRRRR Flip Flops - 3/9/2006 10:17:24 AM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		I see flip flop differently than you.. I'm not Autralian. So reason to believe.. they do not always mean the same thing. And of course FIGURE OF SPEACH falls into this category... LOL

So go growl up a different tree... LOL

Signed... a NON thong wearer...

< Message edited by truesub4u -- 3/9/2006 10:18:09 AM >

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to Driver1961)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: GRRRRRR Flip Flops - 3/9/2006 10:30:19 AM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: IceyOne

Personally, I have yet to see this. I have seen some state that the final decision is theirs and not the submissive/slaves, but I have never seen one that said ALL feelings, thoughts, and ideas would be cast aside.

Of course, if the submissive/slave is irrational, emotional, using anger, whiny, etc...then yes, I can see them being ignored. I would ignore such behavior also.


That's why I stated it takes paying attention to the posters.

But I have to laugh.... because when a sub/slave has something to say... we're not irrational, emotional, angered, or whiny.

I really honestly think most concepts of how sub/slaves are to be treated are actually living in a fantasy more than reality. Only a sub/slave knows how they wish to be treated. And when they express their feelings on how they see they should be treated... they get snubbed, branded.... as fakes... or switches. Or told they're trying to top from the bottom.

And as for the Doms in relationships.... It's so eay to come on the boards... throw that chest out and bark I AM A DOM MY FINAL SAY IS IT.... no one knows what you do behind the internet... in order for your relationships to work... you've gave your sub/slaves rights... rights to think... express... communicate... and because you care for your sub/slaves.... you worked it out... it was a mutual fixing of a situation. It wasn't YOUR final word. You may of gave the final word... but it wasn't your alone.

But then again.... that is only my own opinion. And it doesn't aply to all... so understand I wasn't pin pointing no one specifically. Nor was I pin pointing everyone.

< Message edited by truesub4u -- 3/9/2006 10:31:58 AM >

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: GRRRRRR Flip Flops - 3/9/2006 11:42:30 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

So yes... when ones being ignored.... (Knight... as in a Dom asking them to communicate... and if he's asking.. he damn straight should be listening that's what communication is about... LISTENING) He ignores them completely... where has the trust gone to? What's the sense in communicating... if what you communicate.. UPON REQUEST... is ignored?


this really doesn't answer what I asked.....


but I will ask this as well... WHAT IS LISTENING?


_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to truesub4u)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: GRRRRRR Flip Flops - 3/9/2006 12:10:14 PM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

this really doesn't answer what I asked.....


but I will ask this as well... WHAT IS LISTENING?



It's obviously something you do only when it suits you. I'm not your sub/slave.. so don't try to make me explain myself to you when you're being to lazy to listen in the first place. If you were reading what I was saying.. and not what you want it to say.. then you would of course know what it means.


Now that's what listening means. (This is not directed at Knight.. just as an answer only... not me barking at him or being disrespectful)

< Message edited by truesub4u -- 3/9/2006 12:11:24 PM >

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: GRRRRRR Flip Flops - 3/9/2006 12:20:40 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u
If you were reading what I was saying.. and not what you want it to say.. then you would of course know what it means.



that of course assumes that what you are saying is actually what you mean and isn't giving a different perception because of the way you say it.


_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to truesub4u)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: GRRRRRR Flip Flops - 3/9/2006 12:21:24 PM   
Slipstreme


Posts: 817
Joined: 1/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

I really honestly think most concepts of how sub/slaves are to be treated are actually living in a fantasy more than reality. Only a sub/slave knows how they wish to be treated. And when they express their feelings on how they see they should be treated... they get snubbed, branded.... as fakes... or switches. Or told they're trying to top from the bottom.

And as for the Doms in relationships.... It's so eay to come on the boards... throw that chest out and bark I AM A DOM MY FINAL SAY IS IT.... no one knows what you do behind the internet... in order for your relationships to work... you've gave your sub/slaves rights... rights to think... express... communicate... and because you care for your sub/slaves.... you worked it out... it was a mutual fixing of a situation. It wasn't YOUR final word. You may of gave the final word... but it wasn't your alone


I honestly have not seen this on the board so far. In fact it seems it is usually the Doms who come on to the board with their chest out saying "My word is final", who get laughed and scoffed at, while the submissive who comes in with a complaint or a problem with the relationship is comforted and soothed. I've seen it many times: a Dom coming on the board with a post and they are torn to pieces by other Doms no less, while a submissive, seemingly usually a submissive lass as yourself is reassured and given a nice big virtual hug. Ironic isn't it?

I don't see where you have seen this kindof bs behaviour other than with a couple of Doms here on the board. Most of them seem to be very nice people. Sure, they are Dominant and usually set in their ways, whooptido. They are still helpful caring people for the most part and show that in how they post on a daily basis. It is unfortunate that the loudest posts are often the ones that are hurtful, but these are few and far between. I've yet to see callousness in a post from anyone other than one Dom, and of course a lot of sarcasm, but that seems to be common among many people here, submissives and Dominants alike.

Honestly, you seem to be stressed out, and it seems you are having problems, or have had problems with Dominants in the past who didn't value you as a person. Relax a bit and realize we are not all assholes. If you need any help please feel free to PM me, because it seems that whatever you are being bugged with runs deeper than simply the behavoir of the people who post here.

I've yet to meet a single Dom save one, who doesn't value their submissives or slaves thoughts, opinions and feelings, and who do not love them for the person they are, even when they are testy and moody. I may not be in an M/s dynamic, but I am headed Dom/sub with my current partner and there is nothing I value more than to know what is on his mind, and to help him with his inner troubles. What can I say? Even in the midst of occassional sadism, I'm still a big softie.

< Message edited by Slipstreme -- 3/9/2006 12:22:01 PM >

_____________________________

Living the Dichotomy

Painslut? How about "Endorphin Junkie"?

For information about "the furry thing" please check out my profile journal entry for: 1/17/2006

Alpha of a leather family of four. Master to the slave z.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: GRRRRRR Flip Flops - 3/9/2006 12:28:33 PM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Slipstreme

Honestly, you seem to be stressed out, and it seems you are having problems, or have had problems with Dominants in the past who didn't value you as a person. Relax a bit and realize we are not all assholes. If you need any help please feel free to PM me, because it seems that whatever you are being bugged with runs deeper than simply the behavoir of the people who post here.

I've yet to meet a single Dom save one, who doesn't value their submissives or slaves thoughts, opinions and feelings, and who do not love them for the person they are, even when they are testy and moody. I may not be in an M/s dynamic, but I am headed Dom/sub with my current partner and there is nothing I value more than to know what is on his mind, and to help him with his inner troubles. What can I say? Even in the midst of occassional sadism, I'm still a big softie.



Because someone has a thought.. opinion.. doesn't mean they're stressed out.. or has problems. It's a simple discussion. I'm not having problems with my past.. nor my present. It's a simple discussion. If I need help with anything.. that's what my Master is for.

And be lucky you are the way you are..one that at least knows and admits.. they actualy care about the one tht freely gives themselves to you. And that you do care about their thoughts. If in fact you do.

As far as not seeing what I'm seeing... that's because you're not looking nor taking notice to it. It's easy to turn a blind eye to something you feel has no intrest to you.

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: GRRRRRR Flip Flops - 3/9/2006 12:30:36 PM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists


quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u
If you were reading what I was saying.. and not what you want it to say.. then you would of course know what it means.



that of course assumes that what you are saying is actually what you mean and isn't giving a different perception because of the way you say it.



Oh i know in the past.. i've stated i've had problems SOMETIMES stating what I really want to state... but as far as this discussion.. I'm stating exactly what I want to state.

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: GRRRRRR Flip Flops - 3/9/2006 12:52:00 PM   
Slipstreme


Posts: 817
Joined: 1/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Because someone has a thought.. opinion.. doesn't mean they're stressed out.. or has problems. It's a simple discussion. I'm not having problems with my past.. nor my present. It's a simple discussion. If I need help with anything.. that's what my Master is for.


I mentioned that it seemed that way. It is nice you have a Master who you can confide in and I respect that. I did not mean to step on any toes. I am glad it is simple discussion then.

quote:

As far as not seeing what I'm seeing... that's because you're not looking nor taking notice to it. It's easy to turn a blind eye to something you feel has no intrest to you.


Perhaps I am not seeing what you are seeing because I have not seen that in life. However, if someone is being cruel, callous and unkind to someone, submissive or not, it sure as hell is my business to protect the one being hurt because that is how I grew up: for the better part of 18 years, treated like shit by my peers, scoffed at, ignored, made to feel unimportant.

Am I turning a blind eye? I wouldn't think so, at least not conciously so. Sometimes you really have to set it to me directly or I won't get it. If I had no interest in this topic, I would not have posted here.

If I have offended you, then sorry for trying to be of any help.

*gets off soap box*

_____________________________

Living the Dichotomy

Painslut? How about "Endorphin Junkie"?

For information about "the furry thing" please check out my profile journal entry for: 1/17/2006

Alpha of a leather family of four. Master to the slave z.

(in reply to truesub4u)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: GRRRRRR Flip Flops - 3/9/2006 1:34:52 PM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		nope.. not offened at all.

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

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Profile   Post #: 74
RE: GRRRRRR Flip Flops - 3/9/2006 3:24:05 PM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline 		true... i've only got a couple of words for you...

YOU GO GIRL!!!!!

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci


(in reply to truesub4u)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: GRRRRRR Flip Flops - 3/9/2006 4:13:33 PM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

true... i've only got a couple of words for you...

YOU GO GIRL!!!!!


LOL what did I do?

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

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Profile   Post #: 76
RE: GRRRRRR Flip Flops - 3/9/2006 4:46:14 PM   
Sensualips


Posts: 1013
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		From the subject heading I thought truesub was very upset over the flip flop footwear trend, from sequins to shells to beads to transparent colored plastic. I was going to admire her fashion passion.

< Message edited by Sensualips -- 3/9/2006 4:47:42 PM >

(in reply to truesub4u)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: GRRRRRR Flip Flops - 3/9/2006 4:49:36 PM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

that's what communication is about... LISTENING


I haven't read all the posts on this thread, but this is one comment that caught my attention.

Communication is not about listening; communication is about understanding and being understood. You can talk till you're blue in the face or write till you're fingers bleed, but if the person on the other end does not understand you, then communication has not taken place. So do you want to be understood or do you just want someone to listen? Two very different things.


Knight's kyra

*editing typos

< Message edited by kyraofMists -- 3/9/2006 4:50:33 PM >

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to truesub4u)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: GRRRRRR Flip Flops - 3/9/2006 4:52:52 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadySonelle

The whole concept of 'a slave has no rights' is (to Me) foolish. While a slave has fewer rights, less 'say-so' in what happens than a non-slave, the rights are present.



For slaves, it is somewhat similar. I give My slaves freedoms in areas where they are competant. I withhold certain rights and freedoms in areas where I desire to change or affect them.

Lady Sonelle


In essence and body of these statements I am in full agreement. However, from a Gorean aspect and a philisophical perspective, I'll still argue that a slave has no rights other than those I grant her for as long as I allow her to have them <Wait for it>... <Dramatic pause and drum role> FOR AS LONG AS SHE REMAINS IN THE COLLAR. (I will never refuse any the right to beg/ask for release. Slavery under my rule is a two way street and the one thing I will not, nay can not take from a slave is the right to quit the field. She is released with no strings and with my blessing (even with a reference if necessary).

quote:

ORIGINAL: truesub4u

I see flip flop differently than you.. I'm not Autralian. So reason to believe.. they do not always mean the same thing. And of course FIGURE OF SPEACH falls into this category... LOL

So go growl up a different tree... LOL

Signed... a NON thong wearer...


Yeah truesub wicincala hopa,
When I first saw the thread I was thinking of the Japanese Safety Boots aka thongs Aussies have glued to their feet in summer (Hate the bloody things myself and refuse to think of them) However with slight modifications, they do make the much dreaded ann terrible Paddle of Thongor

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to LadySonelle)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: GRRRRRR Flip Flops - 3/9/2006 4:59:23 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

quote:

that's what communication is about... LISTENING


I haven't read all the posts on this thread, but this is one comment that caught my attention.

Communication is not about listening; communication is about understanding and being understood. You can talk till you're blue in the face or write till you're fingers bleed, but if the person on the other end does not understand you, then communication has not taken place. So do you want to be understood or do you just want someone to listen? Two very different things.


Knight's kyra

*editing typos


I would just add that in order to understand, you have to listen. One gives birth to the other.

Level

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 80
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