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Les chiens aboient, et la caravane passe.

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ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

My view has always been that racism breeds racism and some victims of it often go on to propagate it further. So you can nip it in the bud where it springs up or you can watch people walk away angry and disgruntled, with some of them assuming because people allow it to happen they support it. This will be their perception regardless of the facts.

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ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

I'd suggest that when you apply to a group, perhaps not knowing the ins and outs of it, and are turned away based on something beyond your control then that hurts some people.

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ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

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ORIGINAL: kittinSol

You can't jump, can you?

Just curious.... Do you really expect that comment to lend your point of view strength?

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ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

By this broad definition, I'm "hurt" too because they declined my application to that women-only bikini football league.

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ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

I'd love to see racism go the way of the dodo bird.

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ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

You can join my cosplay League. We don't have bikinis but we've got women in spandex, latex and leather. Is that good enough? 

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ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

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ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

You can join my cosplay League. We don't have bikinis but we've got women in spandex, latex and leather. Is that good enough? 

Oh, those words might just sound a tad familiar...

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ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
The problem is that to stop this you have to stop ALL groups that turn people away based on race. Which mean there won't be any more teams that are solely for minorities. That's something that is desperately needed in some parts of this country.

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I'd love to see racism go the way of the dodo bird. But people, in America, do have the right to hate people for whatever reason they want provided they obey the other laws regarding employement and public/private teams, businesses, etc. And, even though I despise that point of view, I like knowing that people are free to think what they want because it means I'm free to think what I want.

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ORIGINAL: NihilusZero
Fine me that one black fellow who so desperately wanted to be part of this league but got turned away, turning to a life of desperation and horror...and maybe I'll be convinced.

By this broad definition, I'm "hurt" too because they declined my application to that women-only bikini football league.

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ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

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ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
The problem is that to stop this you have to stop ALL groups that turn people away based on race. Which mean there won't be any more teams that are solely for minorities. That's something that is desperately needed in some parts of this country.

Why is that desperately needed? People either make the grade or they don't, this is the fairest way. I don't believe there is such a thing as positive discrimination, it is a total contradiction in terms. As long as people are given priority based on skin colour there will always be people (wrongly or rightly) people that state they don't deserve to be in those positions. Someone should be able to feel confident in their position and not have detractors taking away from that. This is what I want, this is what everyone should have.

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I'd love to see racism go the way of the dodo bird. But people, in America, do have the right to hate people for whatever reason they want provided they obey the other laws regarding employement and public/private teams, businesses, etc. And, even though I despise that point of view, I like knowing that people are free to think what they want because it means I'm free to think what I want.

Interesting though because I take it you aren’t allowed to discriminate in the workplace so how is membership of a sports club any different legally to being employed in a company? People work in a company for financial gain and people want to be part of a sports team for other rewards. They are basically the same in that you put in your hours for an expected result. Why the difference legally?

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ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

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ORIGINAL: NihilusZero
Fine me that one black fellow who so desperately wanted to be part of this league but got turned away, turning to a life of desperation and horror...and maybe I'll be convinced.

By this broad definition, I'm "hurt" too because they declined my application to that women-only bikini football league.

I think it's different because your ego probably thinks that being part of a women only bikini team would be beneath you anyway.

Fine: at the moment we know it's a racist organisation so probably no non white people would apply at this date but in a couple of months years or whatever it will simply be a baseball with no adverse publicity. So sooner or later a non white person may apply thinking it's simply a baseball team, then they'll be told they can't and then they may feel hurt (depending on the individual). When you expect something it doesn't hurt but when it takes you by surprise that is entirely different.

At the very least you should concede the point that this has the potential to hurt people

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ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
When I spoke of the teams being needed, they have been (and I think still are) needed to build community pride in areas of the country where there hasn't been a lot. The teams help give teens in a target areas a reason to stay away from crimes. I agree with you in principle, I truly do. I'm just not convinced that it should be extended to private groups.

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ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
And your comment that you think that NZ would regard being on a bikini team as beneath him could hurt his feelings.
If we are going to make laws to prevent anyone's feelings from ever being hurt, things are going to get out of control really fast.

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ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

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ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
When I spoke of the teams being needed, they have been (and I think still are) needed to build community pride in areas of the country where there hasn't been a lot. The teams help give teens in a target areas a reason to stay away from crimes. I agree with you in principle, I truly do. I'm just not convinced that it should be extended to private groups.

The reality is then that they don't actually need the non white person rule because there is a sparse amount of white people in that area, or there wouldn’t be the demand on behalf of white people anyway. If they were to rescind the rule would there suddenly be a huge number of white applicants?

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ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

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ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
And your comment that you think that NZ would regard being on a bikini team as beneath him could hurt his feelings.
If we are going to make laws to prevent anyone's feelings from ever being hurt, things are going to get out of control really fast.

No it's a serious point actually because some people have high self esteem in relation to other groups and some people don't. Each individual is different, I'm just assuming his original statement was facetious because it appeared such.

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ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

No I'd like to create laws that didn't allow people to be discriminated against by others, in any form, and the person not being hurt is a great side effect of that. I accept your points on women’s refuge sites etc. but I think law writers aren’t totally ignorant to such things and so would allow their continuance in the way the laws are written.

In Europe we go further it seems in relation to anti discrimination and yet I don’t hear of men bringing legal cases to set a precedent that allows them to seek refuge at a women’s hostel. If they did I suspect they'd get short shrift.