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RE: White American only basketball league. - 1/20/2010 4:05:20 PM

SL4V3M4YB3

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You initially proposed the idea that men would be able to seek membership of such groups and I think that's a nonsense, still.

Charitable organisations are not treated the same as other organisations in terms of tax laws so why would they be in terms of other laws?

I think private members groups should be able to turn away anyone they want to but they should be able to justify that decision in terms of it not being ethnicity based just as an employer has to. If everyone feared the indirect effects of law changes as you did they'd be no progress at all in any area, I think they call these people conservatives. They see their role in terms of caretaker to maintain that which we already have rather than endangering it with tweaks.

< Message edited by SL4V3M4YB3 -- 1/20/2010 4:11:16 PM >

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RE: White American only basketball league. - 1/20/2010 4:21:12 PM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

You initially proposed the idea that men would be able to seek membership of such groups and I think that's a nonsense, still.

Charitable organisations are not treated the same as other organisations in terms of tax laws so why would they be in terms of other laws?

I think private members groups should be able to turn away anyone they want to but they should be able to justify that decision in terms of it not being ethnicity based just as an employer has to. If everyone feared the indirect effects of law changes as you did they'd be no progress at all in any area, I think they call these people conservatives. They see their role in terms of caretaker to maintain that which we already have rather than endangering it with tweaks.

Not all groups that are female only are charitable, do you realize this?

There are female support groups that are simply private clubs that meet together that are not charitable organisations.

I appreciate the implication that you think I'm afraid of the law. However, that isn't the case. I'm not afraid of the law. I simply value the freedom to be able to form private groups based on any reason whatsoever more than I am concerned about policing every single private club. I don't think that making it illegal to form private groups based on race is actually going to change anything. The groups will just exist illegally.

At least this way we can see who they are and the police can get membership lists if required. I respect your point of view even if I don't agree with it.

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Post #: 82

RE: White American only basketball league. - 1/20/2010 4:47:25 PM

Level

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quote:

ORIGINAL: intenze

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

Damnit Ron!

I was going to make the Cracker joke!

Everyone in North Dakota is a cracker, all 350 of them.
As for name, I vote for Tighty Whities

Or the Pale Riders.

If Wyoming gets a team, they could be the Casper Caspers.

Woody Harrelson

Edited to add: I tend to fall on the side of the argument that Merc, Aqua, and NZ are making; ignorance isn't necessarily illegal, and NO side has the moral high ground, when it comes to discriminating.

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Post #: 83

RE: White American only basketball league. - 1/20/2010 6:48:43 PM

Rhodes85

Posts: 445
Joined: 11/15/2008
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quote:

Not sure about legality but its pretty much doomed. Very few people are going to buy tickets for something so blatantly racist

You'd be suprised. It would probably be 'officially endorsed by stormfront' or something.

Though plenty of other things are just as racist. Hell theres an all black TV network...BET....and a Native only news network...yet I guarantee if anyone started a white only tv network or a white news they'd get sued by the people doing exactly the same thing. Ironic isn't it? Start a 'miss white america' contest and you can be sure alot of people would be pissed.

quote:

The United Negro College Fund and the NAACP seem to be doing ok.

Thats because the NAACP sues anyone who tries to say its racist or who tries to do exactly the same thing for anyone who isn't black. Sad but true.

quote:

The clubs are private. The rules are different. You can have a club and allow membership based on whatever the hell you want here.

Thats not entirely true. Technically you can take legal action if someone refuses to allow you as a member of a club due to race, gender, etc... but doing so involves far too much bs to be worth doing anyway.

quote:

By the same token, there are all-female support groups. If men are discovered to have joined, they are kicked out. These are private groups and I don't think they should be required to let men in.

and if the men get pissed as a result they can sue or cause all kinds of problems with said support group. Just cause they boot them out doesn't mean its legal to do so. Though i'm a little curious as to what you mean by 'discovered to have joined' How long could it take to tell a man from a woman lol

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Post #: 84

RE: White American only basketball league. - 1/21/2010 4:59:52 AM

blacksword404

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Is this for real?

"The All-American Basketball Alliance announced in a news release Sunday evening that it intends to start its inaugural season in June and hopes Augusta will be one of 12 cities with a team.

"Only players that are natural born United States citizens with both parents of Caucasian race are eligible to play in the league," the statement said."

More to the point: is this legal?! The whole thing is hopefully doomed for failure, and the question of the legality will be moot.

http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/2010/01/19/nba_563760.shtml

I hope it succeeds initially. At least 2 or 3 years. It should be entertaining. No dunking? No ankle breaking, making people look like they were trying to tackle Barry Sanders? I just don't see it.

So basically he wants his own teams of John Stocktons. Stockton was a great player and very fundamental. But boring as hell to watch. With a teams full of fundamental only basketball there is no need to go to or watch the games. Nothing really to see. You just check the score at the end.I can't tell if the guy is a racist or not but he is puling a little stealth bigotry. Seems he hit all the little codewords in this article.

Funny thing is there are a bunch of white players in the NBA. But for some reason they tend to have foreign names.

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Post #: 85

RE: White American only basketball league. - 1/21/2010 5:05:22 AM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rhodes85

quote:

By the same token, there are all-female support groups. If men are discovered to have joined, they are kicked out. These are private groups and I don't think they should be required to let men in.

and if the men get pissed as a result they can sue or cause all kinds of problems with said support group. Just cause they boot them out doesn't mean its legal to do so. Though i'm a little curious as to what you mean by 'discovered to have joined' How long could it take to tell a man from a woman lol

Exactly. And we disagree because I don't think every single group should be required to open their memberships to those they aren't targeting.

And not every group exists solely in the "real world". Plenty have online message boards, e-mail groups, etc where it's very easy for a man to have joined. Masters will, and have, tried to join slave support groups.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 1/21/2010 5:36:18 AM >

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Post #: 86

RE: White American only basketball league. - 1/21/2010 5:21:50 AM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
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quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Is this for real?

"The All-American Basketball Alliance announced in a news release Sunday evening that it intends to start its inaugural season in June and hopes Augusta will be one of 12 cities with a team.

"Only players that are natural born United States citizens with both parents of Caucasian race are eligible to play in the league," the statement said."

More to the point: is this legal?! The whole thing is hopefully doomed for failure, and the question of the legality will be moot.

http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/2010/01/19/nba_563760.shtml

I hope it succeeds initially. At least 2 or 3 years. It should be entertaining. No dunking? No ankle breaking, making people look like they were trying to tackle Barry Sanders? I just don't see it.

So basically he wants his own teams of John Stocktons. Stockton was a great player and very fundamental. But boring as hell to watch. With a teams full of fundamental only basketball there is no need to go to or watch the games. Nothing really to see. You just check the score at the end.I can't tell if the guy is a racist or not but he is puling a little stealth bigotry. Seems he hit all the little codewords in this article.

White supremacists and their ilk regurlarly try ventures that offer them semi-respectable avenues out of the underground and into mainstream society. This could be an example of that. It's not an innocent thing, for sure.

quote:

Funny thing is there are a bunch of white players in the NBA. But for some reason they tend to have foreign names.

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Post #: 87

RE: White American only basketball league. - 1/21/2010 5:35:15 AM

blacksword404

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

White supremacists and their ilk regurlarly try ventures that offer them semi-respectable avenues out of the underground and into mainstream society. This could be an example of that. It's not an innocent thing, for sure.

You might be right but trying to squash a group and shut them up won't make them go away. It turns them into the persecuted. And grows their cause. Look at what liberals did to Sarah Palin. They are the reason she is as popular as she is. Americans tend to root for underdogs. I say let them see what their league is made of. I suspect it will die off soon enough. But it needs to be a natural death not premature. No martyrdom for them.

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Post #: 88

RE: White American only basketball league. - 1/21/2010 5:37:31 AM

kittinSol

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It's fine - not once did I suggest they should be shut down.

I'm still wondering whether the venture's legal.

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Post #: 89

RE: White American only basketball league. - 1/21/2010 5:40:59 AM

blacksword404

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You might not have said it but you were thinking it.

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Post #: 90

RE: White American only basketball league. - 1/21/2010 5:41:16 AM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

You might be right but trying to squash a group and shut them up won't make them go away. It turns them into the persecuted. And grows their cause. Look at what liberals did to Sarah Palin. They are the reason she is as popular as she is. Americans tend to root for underdogs. I say let them see what their league is made of. I suspect it will die off soon enough. But it needs to be a natural death not premature. No martyrdom for them.

That's a really good point and one that hadn't occured to me yet. Trying to shut down the league will just get them attention and sympthy. Like when the KKK wanted to do a march through a Jewish neighborhood - they were expecting to be shut down so that they could make a stink about it. Instead they were allowed to do it and they ended up calling off the march. Can't find an article on it but it was brought up in a class when we were discussing if the law should always be morally right or should be fair to all, even those whose motives aren't innocent.

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Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

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Post #: 91

RE: White American only basketball league. - 1/21/2010 5:47:14 AM

blacksword404

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

You might be right but trying to squash a group and shut them up won't make them go away. It turns them into the persecuted. And grows their cause. Look at what liberals did to Sarah Palin. They are the reason she is as popular as she is. Americans tend to root for underdogs. I say let them see what their league is made of. I suspect it will die off soon enough. But it needs to be a natural death not premature. No martyrdom for them.

That's a really good point and one that hadn't occured to me yet. Trying to shut down the league will just get them attention and sympthy. Like when the KKK wanted to do a march through a Jewish neighborhood - they were expecting to be shut down so that they could make a stink about it. Instead they were allowed to do it and they ended up calling off the march. Can't find an article on it but it was brought up in a class when we were discussing if the law should always be morally right or should be fair to all, even those whose motives aren't innocent.

If I remember right I think that was in Cincinatti. Maybe 2 or 3 years ago.

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Post #: 92

RE: White American only basketball league. - 1/21/2010 5:49:53 AM

BKSir

Posts: 4037
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From: Salt Lake City, UT
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I wonder if Rush Limbaugh is one of the founding members, or at least looking to be a team owner.

quote:

ORIGINAL: intenze

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

Damnit Ron!

I was going to make the Cracker joke!

Everyone in North Dakota is a cracker, all 350 of them.
As for name, I vote for Tighty Whities

Oh, come now, not EVERYONE there is. I know this for a fact because I worked in a chinese restaurant there, so there are, confirmed, 3 people from the Canton region. The other 347 are though.

< Message edited by BKSir -- 1/21/2010 5:53:13 AM >

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Post #: 93

RE: White American only basketball league. - 1/21/2010 5:50:36 AM

AquaticSub

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I'm pretty sure the incident I'm thinking of is older than that but there might have been mutiple. I wouldn't be surprised if they pulled the same stunt more than once.

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It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

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Post #: 94

RE: White American only basketball league. - 1/21/2010 5:56:51 AM

kittinSol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

You might not have said it but you were thinking it.

Fuck you

. (No, I wasn't :-)

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Post #: 95

RE: White American only basketball league. - 1/21/2010 6:00:15 AM

blacksword404

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

I'm pretty sure the incident I'm thinking of is older than that but there might have been mutiple. I wouldn't be surprised if they pulled the same stunt more than once.

It wouldn't surprise me any.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Can't find an article on it but it was brought up in a class when we were discussing if the law should always be morally right or should be fair to all, even those whose motives aren't innocent.

In my opinion the law is never morally right. Morality has no business with the law because the law cannot decide anything moral. Only things legal. The law goes wrong when it tries to weigh in on morality. The law should apply equally to all. That is it's purpose for being. I think if it was applied that way more often there would not be anywhere near as many laws.

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Post #: 96

RE: White American only basketball league. - 1/21/2010 6:04:30 AM

AquaticSub

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I tend to agree with you on that count.

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Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

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Post #: 97

RE: White American only basketball league. - 1/21/2010 6:19:45 AM

blacksword404

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Joined: 1/4/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: blacksword404

You might not have said it but you were thinking it.

Fuck you . (No, I wasn't :-)

Now, now.

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Tu fellas magnus penum meum...iterum

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Ego sum erus.

The capacity to learn is a gift, the ability to learn a skill, the willingness to learn a choice. Dune HH

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Post #: 98

RE: White American only basketball league. - 1/21/2010 9:09:34 AM

outlier

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Is this the famous incident you two cannot remember?

Skokie Illinois

They actually made a movie about it.
Which is why I suspect it is the "famous"
incident you are referring to.

Edit for spelling and clarification.

< Message edited by outlier -- 1/21/2010 9:59:45 AM >

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Post #: 99

RE: White American only basketball league. - 1/21/2010 9:43:15 AM

Jeffff

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I don't get the point. I live in Chicago. I remember the incident. but I don't see how it pertains to this topic.

JeffweyX

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