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RE: Is Obama really as smart as he's reputed to be? - 2/4/2010 6:50:36 PM   
MrMister


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrMister

I can only attest to what my experiences in life are. I can only make assumptions about others, which is what I've done here based upon the reasoning behind the disagreement to Merc's initial premise. I have done my best to keep and maintain an open-mind. I can be convinced that I may have the wrong stance on political issues, or what ever else, when presented evidence that indicates otherwise. Looking at some folk's stance, I have to wonder if this really and truly is applicable to themselves. Once again, I can only speculate, as I do not know anyone here, but from merely looking at a few of the responses (in this and other threads throughout this forum), it sure seems as such.



Isn't that a wonderful testament to yourself!

But apparently it somehow escaped you that in the statement I highlighted in the previous post you were doing exactly what you complain of others doing.



I was referring to something that seems to be way too common here. Instead of reading and comprehending what folks just read, they seem to uncannily twist and distort words and their meaning, and even overlook critical or viable points made if, what it appears to me, it doesn't fit well into their line of thinking.  Am I misunderstanding this, or perhaps is it my imagination? I may have mistakenly done this at times, but it sure isn't something I wouldn't consciously put into practice on a consistent basis.


< Message edited by MrMister -- 2/4/2010 6:52:48 PM >

(in reply to rulemylife)
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RE: Is Obama really as smart as he's reputed to be? - 2/4/2010 7:22:37 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrMister

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Call it bickering if you like. If you want to play with the big kids, you'll need more than scolding--people disagree.




At times, not always (particularly in this thread), the bickering seems to be done by children, not adults.



Then you have two options:

1) Provide arguments and counterarguments for your positions rather than dismissing those you don't like as dismissing yours.

2) Don't add to the bickering.


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RE: Is Obama really as smart as he's reputed to be? - 2/4/2010 7:30:38 PM   
MrMister


Posts: 272
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline 		Just voicing my observation. Just observing that its a rather strange, and frequent, phenomenon, that's all. I suppose I'll eventually get used to it! 

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RE: Is Obama really as smart as he's reputed to be? - 2/4/2010 8:06:35 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		~FR

Unless im mistaken, LV is built on a service industry.

Service industries are often seen as a luxury.... restaurants, hair salons, casinos, broadway shows, movies, ect.

People give up luxuries...especially if they arent sure they will have a job tomorrow.

When jobs are insecure.... and our job market has been very shakey... people tighten their belts.

This began a few years back.

And NOW people want to blame one man, whom they consider ineffectual, a moron, an idiot, ect, for the downturn in the economy leading to all this belt tightening.

For example... 1991... Disney... the following report...

Net income for the quarter was $174.05 million, or $1.31 a share, compared with $232.66 million, or $1.72 a share, in the corresponding period last year. Revenues increased 2 percent, to $1.74 billion.

The fourth-quarter results capped one of the worst years for Disney since it was revived by a management team headed by Michael D. Eisner in 1984. For Disney's fiscal year, net income fell to $636.6 million, or $4.78 a share, from $824 million, or $6 a share, a decline of 22.7 percent. It was the first full-year decline in earnings under Mr. Eisner's team.

Disney said that the downturn reflected "lower levels of domestic travel and tourism caused by the current economic recession and the gulf war in the spring."

Disney stock gained $1.50 a share today on the New York Stock Exchange, closing at $111.875.

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/11/15/business/disney-s-net-down-by-25.2.html?pagewanted=1

and December 2009....

LOS ANGELES — Robert A. Iger, the chief executive of the Walt Disney Company, received a $2 million salary and a $9.3 million bonus for fiscal 2009, a 28 percent drop from the previous year, according to a proxy statement filed on Wednesday with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

The lower cash compensation, according to the filing, stemmed from Disney’s decline in profitability in the global economic downturn. Net income dropped 25 percent, to $3.3 billion, and total shareholder return trailed that of the Standard & Poor’s 500-stock index by about 7 percent.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/24/business/media/24disney.html?_r=1

These are not recession proof markets. Believing one man has enough power by making a statement to save money instead of squandering it on speculations (and gambling is a huge speculation) to bring down an entire city is, quite frankly, giving Obama more power than he truly has.... and makes me understand why the republican party hates the man so much.



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RE: Is Obama really as smart as he's reputed to be? - 2/4/2010 8:33:55 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Not believing---pretending.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: Is Obama really as smart as he's reputed to be? - 2/4/2010 8:36:01 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		~grins

thank you for the correction Master Tim!

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
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RE: Is Obama really as smart as he's reputed to be? - 2/4/2010 10:51:01 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline 		So tazzy, you are saying that a city built way out in the middle of a Godforsaken desert that produces nothing but gambling, whores, and Nudes On Ice is economically precarious, and vulnerable to a sudden change in spending habits?


Nawww....it has to be Obama's offhand remark!

It must be!

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RE: Is Obama really as smart as he's reputed to be? - 2/5/2010 5:02:15 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		And actually Las Vegas will be just fine.  The city has reinvented itself several times and has faced other economic slowdowns in the past.  The OP is correct in the city being capitalism.  In capitalism if a company's product is tanking, they either do a re-packaging or re-marketing of their existing product or come up with other products that meet conusmer needs and demands.  Any company that sits and pouts is likely to be doomed.

This thread is just another example of an attitude shift in this country that concerns me a great deal.  We have become a society of "Not My Fault!"  Integrity used to mean to own up to one's own mistakes, then take proactive steps to prevent the repeat of those mistakes.  Now it seems the best thing to do is to find someone else to blame for our mistakes and keep on doing what we've been doing.  (the banking idustry comes to mind) It's not my fault I burned my legs when I placed a cup of hot coffee in my crotch to hold it while I drive, it's McDonald's fault for not telling me the coffee was so hot!  And people get rewarded for that thinking and behavior.  WTF!

We are so fragmented that we are no longer Americans.  We are hyphanated groups.  The only muscle we seem interested in exercising is our fingers, texting, social-networking, remote controls and the vast amount of time spent pointing those fingers at someone else.   Does anyone even want to be a unified country?  Is polarization really working for anyone? 

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RE: Is Obama really as smart as he's reputed to be? - 2/5/2010 5:13:59 AM   
subrob1967


Posts: 4591
Joined: 9/13/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

You impress me SubRob.

I have never seen anyone so consistently able to portray their ignorance as fact.

What exactly do you think these law students are writing about? 

Whether Pepsi  is better than Coke?  Whether the Big Mac has more calories than a Whopper?



My ignorance? That's truly funny.

You act like studying Law is hard or something. To be a good law student, all you need is the ability to retain facts from previous cases, and form opinions based on the results.

Again, Obama goes way out of his way to bury his transcripts,  got into Harvard the same way Bush got into Yale, and you guys fawn all over him like he's the non quadriplegic Stephen Hawkings.

Speaking of ignorance.

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RE: Is Obama really as smart as he's reputed to be? - 2/5/2010 5:43:12 AM   
SirAldwyn


Posts: 44
Joined: 10/15/2009
Status: offline 		I think you are way off in the downfall of Vegas, blaming it on Obama.

The downfall of Vegas started back in the late 80's. 

I have been going to Vegas since the 70's and in my opinion the downfall started when the MOB got pushed out and the corporations came in and took over.

When the Mob ran Vegas, all they cared about was the gambling (not gaming) floor making money, everything else could lose, the restaurats, the hotel rooms, it was a place for alduts to go anf get away from things.  Everything cost next to nothing, drinks, food, rooms shows, and drinks.  All they cared about was the gambling.

When the corporate world took over things went down slowly but surly.  First they tried to make it something it is not, a family vacation center, give me a break.  So they have a huge identity problem, who wants to take their children to Vegas where everything stays n Vegas.

Second every inch of floor space has to make a profit under corporate rule, the gaming floor, the restaurants, the shows, the flowerist, the guy selling gum to even the bars.  So goodbye free drinks, cheap rooms, cheap eats and free drinks.  Sure things maybe cheap today but 3 years ago they where not.

When I went to Vegas in 2008, my room was $690 per night, for a basic room, when I arrived my wife and I went to get something to eat, breakfast for 2 cost us over $75, for eggs and pancakes.  During my entire time there, I was not offered 1 free drink, even when I was gambling (even the drinks dispensers are computer controlled to make sure everything is accounted for)

When the corporate penny counters came in, Vegas was doomed, perks went to zero, now you have to sign up for there gaming card, something the Pit-boss use to take care of in a second.  Now everything has to be approved.

When I was there in 1981, I lost a lot of cash, the pit boss gave me a free airline tickets to come back, a free suite, and several thousand in chips.  Now granted they wanted me back to lose even more, but the way they made you feel made you want to come back.

Fast forward to 2008, there for a wedding, this time I won huge and you know what I got.  Taking off the gaming floor, and my picture taken and telling me I would never be allowed back in.  They thought I had cheated the system, when it fact all it was, was dumb luck  and that guy was right, I have never been back and I never will.

There are casinos opening all over this country and if I'm going to loss my money to a corporation, why not do it in my own state.

So I guess the easiest thing to do is blame someone else for their woes, but in truth if they look in the mirror they will see the problem. 

And your comment about it being so cheap when you went, if you traveled anywhere in this country it is cheap right now.  Because no one has the dispoable income to spend on vacations.  Hell even Disney is giving you buy 1 get 1 free rooms and tickets.  Hotels are offering free airfare, so it is not just Vegas trying to lure people with what little money they have since all our jobs moved overseas in the last 30 years.



(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: Is Obama really as smart as he's reputed to be? - 2/5/2010 5:56:43 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		Besides, Las Vegas is terribly, terribly déclassé.


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RE: Is Obama really as smart as he's reputed to be? - 2/5/2010 7:57:32 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		I am so enjoying how in response the fundamental ignorance of the comments has been ignored by most or isn't addressed at all. The cause of Vegas current and one year past problems is up for debate. I'll let the quotes and references, along with my first hand experience stand on its merit. If you want another benchmark - in 2008 the same suite my step daughter enjoyed for $124 cost $450/night. In this economy, ANY negative comment from ANY source doesn't help. Coming from the President of the US the negative marketing has a perceived effect, if not a pragmatic one. It disenfranchises and polarizes the locals to whom the comment was directed at a time when, as a county, there should be a unified goal of improving everyone's economic condition.

The rise and fall of Vegas is up for debate and discussion. My position on the ignorance of making directed negative comments to a suffering constituency is based on their comments. Senator Reid along with the mayor agree that they should not have been made once by a person who allegedly is serving the entire country. Obama did it twice. He went out of his way to champion and be the figurehead for a failed attempt to stimulate the economy of Chicago to secure the Olympics. He went out of his way twice to champion NOT going to Vegas.

The hopelessness of bipartisanship and the agenda of the apologist is illustrated. The consensus is that what the President says has no, or little impact. Well then why have him comment on any matter? Or is it that only agenda agreement comments are influencing? Anything else, or at least anything negative, is either taken out of context or misinterpreted; because his intelligence and 'good intent' can not be questioned. Damn - I hope to never be so cornered by fanatical faith to have to take such a position on any subject or any person.

Personally, I love the discounted prices and take advantage of them. I hope the President makes similar dumb remark about the cruise industry before booking my next cruise, and discourages air travel to Europe; affecting similar results.

Obama has proved to be a very effect leader and trend setter in that regard. I see it as his only accomplishment to date.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 2/5/2010 8:01:54 AM >

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RE: Is Obama really as smart as he's reputed to be? - 2/5/2010 8:02:24 AM   
Musicmystery


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Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

The consensus is that what the President says has no, or little impact. Well then why have him comment on any matter?


Actually, the consensus is that what the President says has no impact on Vegas tourism.

How that translates to "any matter" is only in your own mind.

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RE: Is Obama really as smart as he's reputed to be? - 2/5/2010 8:04:39 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

Again, Obama goes way out of his way to bury his transcripts, got into Harvard the same way Bush got into Yale, and you guys fawn all over him like he's the non quadriplegic Stephen Hawkings.


What is your burning desire to see this mans college transcripts?
What is it about them that fasinates you?
What to you expect to find or prove?
Or
are you just childlishly demanding something just because it is not there?

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RE: Is Obama really as smart as he's reputed to be? - 2/5/2010 8:08:18 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
quote:

The consensus is that what the President says has no, or little impact. Well then why have him comment on any matter?


Actually, the consensus is that what the President says has no impact on Vegas tourism.

How that translates to "any matter" is only in your own mind.
No no, I appreciate your need for the selective influence of Obama's words and positions. The question was broader than the blinders necessary to discount his impact on Vegas. Why send him to Copenhagen if anything he says doesn't have an impact? Why send him to solicit for the Olympics? Is it only Vegas where what he says holds no influence?

However, I understand; when all else fails - attempt to reduce the debate to semantics.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Is Obama really as smart as he's reputed to be? - 2/5/2010 8:15:16 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
quote:

The consensus is that what the President says has no, or little impact. Well then why have him comment on any matter?


Actually, the consensus is that what the President says has no impact on Vegas tourism.

How that translates to "any matter" is only in your own mind.
No no, I appreciate your need for the selective influence of Obama's words and positions. The question was broader than the blinders necessary to discount his impact on Vegas. Why send him to Copenhagen if anything he says doesn't have an impact? Why send him to solicit for the Olympics? Is it only Vegas where what he says holds no influence?

However, I understand; when all else fails - attempt to reduce the debate to semantics.


No, and here's the Mercland Defensive in all it's glory--keep shifting the assumptions, ridicule the implications pointed out to you, throw out lots and lots of empty rhetorical questions in a snow storm of red herrings, and when you're called on them, shift the assumptions again. Not to mention the consistent straw man positions. Why address me when you can just invent your own version with more convenient positions?

I'll leave you to play with your friends and your straw dolls.


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RE: Is Obama really as smart as he's reputed to be? - 2/5/2010 8:17:48 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

Coming from the President of the US the negative marketing has a perceived effect,

Your perception and of course the presidents detractors.


if not a pragmatic one.

Finally with this one phrase you recognize the "pragmatic effect" could possibly differ from the "perceived effect"

It disenfranchises and polarizes the locals to whom the comment was directed at a time

Please lets be specific the comment was directed at people tempted to spend the grocery and rent money on gambling and drugs.

when, as a county, there should be a unified goal of improving everyone's economic condition.

Which is something you want the president to pursue with the same vigor as you?

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RE: Is Obama really as smart as he's reputed to be? - 2/5/2010 8:18:21 AM   
housesub4you


Posts: 1879
Joined: 4/2/2008
Status: offline 		Those prices have all plummeted without O'bama saying one word.

I just took a cruise and for 7 days it was less than $600 per person including airfare and the ship was half empty, but the cruise industry is not crying foul, they are adjusting to the current economic times as is the rest of the tourist industry

If Vegas was smart instead of whining about O'bama they would go after the European market since the value of the Euro makes a trip here very cheap, but no corporate whining is easier and makes good sound bites





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RE: Is Obama really as smart as he's reputed to be? - 2/5/2010 8:23:17 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

in 2008 the same suite my step daughter enjoyed for $124 cost $450/night.

<snip snip snip snip snip snip>

Personally, I love the discounted prices and take advantage of them.



"People today know the price of everything, and the value of nothing."

O. Wilde

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Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Is Obama really as smart as he's reputed to be? - 2/5/2010 8:24:13 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

No, and here's the Mercland Defensive in all it's glory--keep shifting the assumptions, ridicule the implications pointed out to you, throw out lots and lots of empty rhetorical questions in a snow storm of red herrings, and when you're called on them, shift the assumptions again. Not to mention the consistent straw man positions. Why address me when you can just invent your own version with more convenient positions?

I'll leave you to play with your friends and your straw dolls.

Once again - thanks for making comments substantiating my point - you are a constant source for that and I am truly grateful.

'Mercland' is doing GREAT and will be having a big blowout Superbowl party on Sunday. You know I give you credit when people ask me about it. A world of reality, fun, pragmatic reason is a place you may be uncomfortable, but you are right - my friends do enjoy it! Come on by if you ever get tired of living in your faith based world of false premise and assumption, if you're in the neighborhood.

I appreciate your surrender, and await your usual; "One more thing, and THIS is my last word on this thread..."

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 140
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