RE: Liberals & Atheists Smarter? Intelligent Ppl Have Values Novel in Human Evol. History, Study Finds

RE: Liberals & Atheists Smarter? Intelligent Ppl Have Values Novel in Human Evol. History, Study Finds (Full Version)

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NorthernGent -> RE: Liberals & Atheists Smarter? Intelligent Ppl Have Values Novel in Human Evol. History, Study Finds (2/25/2010 1:00:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika More intelligent people are statistically significantly more likely to exhibit social values and religious and political preferences that are novel to the human species in evolutionary history. Specifically, liberalism and atheism, and for men (but not women), preference for sexual exclusivity correlate with higher intelligence, a new study finds. Seems a strange thing to say.....when you consider that Conservatism and Liberalism (in terms of our modern world understanding) both sprang out of the end of Feudalism and are as novel as one another. No difference really.

Sanity -> RE: Liberals & Atheists Smarter? Intelligent Ppl Have Values Novel in Human Evol. History, Study Fin (2/25/2010 1:00:47 PM)
You're Assuming we would have had to nuke the planet, which is a highly questionable assumption to make. quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: There was a time we were the only major power virtually unscathed by WW II and we were the only one with the bomb. To go from there to total world domination would have been a cakewalk. No. It would have been incredibly stupid. Nuclear winter would have made global warming irrelevant. And the radiation traveling with the weather would have poisoned us all. Not to mention that destroying your markets is not a wise economic move. Instead, we prospered in the 50s and early 60s by supplying goods to war ravaged Europe. You neo-con folks have to get over the simplistic notion that if you blow shit up, problem solved, no consequences.

Moonhead -> RE: Liberals & Atheists Smarter? Intelligent Ppl Have Values Novel in Human Evol. History, Study Fin (2/25/2010 1:09:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika More intelligent people are statistically significantly more likely to exhibit social values and religious and political preferences that are novel to the human species in evolutionary history. Specifically, liberalism and atheism, and for men (but not women), preference for sexual exclusivity correlate with higher intelligence, a new study finds. Seems a strange thing to say.....when you consider that Conservatism and Liberalism (in terms of our modern world understanding) both sprang out of the end of Feudalism and are as novel as one another. No difference really. Liberalism's more recent that that, surely? We're talking the eighteenth century at the earliest.

kdsub -> RE: Liberals & Atheists Smarter? Intelligent Ppl Have Values Novel in Human Evol. History, Study Fin (2/25/2010 1:10:50 PM)
Oh he is a good one...just check out some of his quotes on religion…He is my poster boy…But all along I have said it is wrong to blame the problems of this earth on religion or lack of it rather than personal greed, ambition, or the will to survive. People have killed in the name of God People have killed in the name of Nationalism. People have killed in the name of Need People have killed for Fun We are killers at heart and religion only gives us an excuse not the real reason to follow this instinct... and atheists need no reason at all. Intelligence just makes us better at it then before. There is no particular virtue or ethics in intelligence…but there is in some teachings of religion but only if they are followed with compassion and understanding. I think anyway Butch

NorthernGent -> RE: Liberals & Atheists Smarter? Intelligent Ppl Have Values Novel in Human Evol. History, Study Finds (2/25/2010 1:14:35 PM)
I would say Liberalism and Conservatism are very much alike when you consider what the alternatives could be. Both advocate taxation; both advocate regulation - the difference is whom you tax/where you spend it/what you regulate. Small details really. The main political dividing line isn't right or left nor conservative or liberal - it's authoritarian and otherwise.

NorthernGent -> RE: Liberals & Atheists Smarter? Intelligent Ppl Have Values Novel in Human Evol. History, Study Fin (2/25/2010 1:19:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika More intelligent people are statistically significantly more likely to exhibit social values and religious and political preferences that are novel to the human species in evolutionary history. Specifically, liberalism and atheism, and for men (but not women), preference for sexual exclusivity correlate with higher intelligence, a new study finds. Seems a strange thing to say.....when you consider that Conservatism and Liberalism (in terms of our modern world understanding) both sprang out of the end of Feudalism and are as novel as one another. No difference really. Liberalism's more recent that that, surely? We're talking the eighteenth century at the earliest. The likes of Spinoza and Locke were liberal forerunners - with ideas regarding the democratisation of property and a state where the people have the right to rebellion - mid 17th century.

SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Liberals & Atheists Smarter? Intelligent Ppl Have Values Novel in Human Evol. History, Study Fin (2/25/2010 1:19:48 PM)
Yes it's only the bible which has prevented me from becoming a mass murderer. Pointless killing was my number one aim in life when I was growing up but then I found God and since then compassion and understanding has grown within me. I mean just look to times when the bible didn't exist, those Iceni were not social types at all they loved pointless killing.

Moonhead -> RE: Liberals & Atheists Smarter? Intelligent Ppl Have Values Novel in Human Evol. History, Study Fin (2/25/2010 1:23:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Oh he is a good one...just check out some of his quotes on religion…He is my poster boy…But all along I have said it is wrong to blame the problems of this earth on religion or lack of it rather than personal greed, ambition, or the will to survive. People have killed in the name of God People have killed in the name of Nationalism. People have killed in the name of Need People have killed for Fun We are killers at heart and religion only gives us an excuse not the real reason to follow this instinct... and atheists need no reason at all. Intelligence just makes us better at it then before. There is no particular virtue or ethics in intelligence…but there is in some teachings of religion but only if they are followed with compassion and understanding. I think anyway Butch That line about how many divisions does the Pope have does leave you thinking that he might not have been paying as much attention in the seminary as he could have, when you put it like that...

rulemylife -> RE: Liberals & Atheists Smarter? Intelligent Ppl Have Values Novel in Human Evol. History, Study Finds (2/25/2010 1:44:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub You are naive...we would not have needed to bomb the planet... Just the threat would have been enough. Russia would have been the only problem but they could not mass armies under an atomic threat. But it is silly to argue what did not happen or deny we did not have the power to do it if we chose. Butch No, it is you who is being naive and simplistic. God, Mom, apple pie, and the American way. We had the threat. The Korean War started less than five years after WWII. The same President who ordered the nuclear bombing of Japan was still in office. Do you think there were other reasons for him not to use nuclear weapons against North Korea or do you think he suddenly found Jesus and decided it wasn't the Christian thing to do?

kdsub -> RE: Liberals & Atheists Smarter? Intelligent Ppl Have Values Novel in Human Evol. History, Study Fin (2/25/2010 1:48:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3 Yes it's only the bible which has prevented me from becoming a mass murderer. Pointless killing was my number one aim in life when I was growing up but then I found God and since then compassion and understanding has grown within me. I mean just look to times when the bible didn't exist, those Iceni were not social types at all they loved pointless killing. I believe it...lol But first I want you to show me with proof...when in the, civilized or otherwise, history of mankind has their not been religion. Should that not tell you something about the mores you were raised under and an insight into the needs of humans? Butch

rulemylife -> RE: Liberals & Atheists Smarter? Intelligent Ppl Have Values Novel in Human Evol. History, Study Finds (2/25/2010 2:04:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Besides the miss spellings rule I'm surprised you read my statements wrong. Many people on this board equate majority conservatism with the fanatic religious right…far from the truth. Trying to equate atheism with intelligence and say the majority of the religious have lower intelligence and therefore conservatives must be less intelligent is not supported by world events, facts, and the present state of this world. But if it is true then being atheistically intelligent is not an advantage in Darwin’s world when it comes to survival of the fittest. Butch I don't buy into the study. I don't believe conservatives or the religious are less intelligent. I do believe though that both groups tend to be very rigid in their thinking and beliefs, unwilling to even consider other viewpoints. That of course is a broad generalization, but I have found it to be true more often than not.

kdsub -> RE: Liberals & Atheists Smarter? Intelligent Ppl Have Values Novel in Human Evol. History, Study Finds (2/25/2010 2:23:19 PM)
Rule I agree with your post completely...see we can agree on some things. When it comes to Korea the US did consider using the bomb... they could have and won. But I believe Truman was horrified with the results of the bomb in Japan and for whatever reason decided not to us it. I choose to think some of his religious upbringing was involved in that decision. I could be wrong but I like to think that was the case. I really don't think anyone knew or believed the destructive force of the bomb until it was used... After that things changed and maybe for the first time new destructive weapons were not used when they were available in war. Butch

rulemylife -> RE: Liberals & Atheists Smarter? Intelligent Ppl Have Values Novel in Human Evol. History, Study Finds (2/25/2010 2:37:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3 This attack was nothing to do with setting an example to the world it was pure retribution. The weapon could have been demonstrated in other ways to end the war, perhaps even one bomb would have been enough. Some people will fear such power and some will secretly covet it, the world is not safer because such power was demonstrated. Retribution had nothing to do with it. The Japanese were militarily defeated but their code of honor refused to allow them to accept the concept of surrender. It has been estimated that an invasion of Japan would have killed more than a million Allied soldiers. Even after the initial bomb was dropped in Hiroshima Japan refused terms of surrender. It was only after the Nagasaki bombing they capitulated.

charlestonscmilk -> RE: Liberals & Atheists Smarter? Intelligent Ppl Have Values Novel in Human Evol. History, Study Finds (2/25/2010 2:43:55 PM)
and then there is this... http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/02/stop_patting_yourselves_on_the.php by PZ Myers is a biologist and associate professor at the University of Minnesota, Morris. Good grief. This ridiculous study is making the rounds of the atheist community, with its claim that liberals and atheists are smarter than conservatives and religious people. Look at the numbers! Young adults who identify themselves as "not at all religious" have an average IQ of 103 during adolescence, while those who identify themselves as "very religious" have an average IQ of 97 during adolescence. Seriously? Show me the error bars on those measurements. Show me the reliability of IQ as a measure of actual, you know, intelligence. Show me that a 6 point IQ difference matters at all in your interactions with other people, even if it were real. And then to claim that these differences are not only heritable, but evolutionarily significant…jebus, people, you can just glance at it and see that it is complete crap. And then look at the source: Satoshi Kanazawa, the Fenimore Cooper of Sociobiology, the professional fantasist of Psychology Today. He's like the poster boy for the stupidity and groundlessnessof freakishly fact-free evolutionary psychology. Just ignore anything with Kanazawa's name on it.

AnimusRex -> RE: Liberals & Atheists Smarter? Intelligent Ppl Have Values Novel in Human Evol. History, Study Fin (2/25/2010 3:31:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig A really cool movie...its title is "Titus"...and its not Pee Wee, its Alan Cumming, who looks sort of like Pee Wee. Thanks for the correction- the movie drops a little on my cool-o-meter, since Paul Rubens would have been a perfect ironic choice. But still a fave.

kittinSol -> RE: Liberals & Atheists Smarter? Intelligent Ppl Have Values Novel in Human Evol. History, Study Fin (2/25/2010 3:50:00 PM)
You guys make me want to start the Shakespearian Hijack Action Group (the SHAG). Seriously [8D] . "Why then tonight, let us assail our plot."

AnimusRex -> RE: Liberals & Atheists Smarter? Intelligent Ppl Have Values Novel in Human Evol. History, Study Finds (2/25/2010 3:52:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub At the end of WWII, if the US had wished, we could have conquered the whole fucking planet...in your words...we did not do it. Once Russia got the bomb the opportunity passed. But the ring was there to grab. Now please tell me how any nation could have stopped us if we so choosed. Butch Well, ok. I love history, so lets play the "Alternative Timeline Game". At the end of WWII, the national debt was 120% of the GDP. about double of what it is today (when people are freaking out over it); All the major industries in America (steel, autos, rails, mining, aircraft) were controlled, directly or indriectly, byt the federal government; meaning they produced what the government wanted, how the government wanted and sold their goods to the government; no questions. We were the only nation with nuvlear weapons, and the biggest economy in the world. We had forces stationed all over the world, and only the USSR had a military to rival ours. So we could have threatened to nuke any country that opposed us. So far, so good. But on the other side, the American people were tired of war; we had just lost 500,000 men, equal to over a million lives today. Wartime shortages and rationing were unpopular, even if people accepted their need; The Federal government was spending wildly- the deficit was 30% of the GDP, versus Obama's "huge" deficit of 13% of the GDP; In other words, the government could not afford much more war spending. Grabbing the brass ring, and holding it are two different things. How wold we have conquered anything beyond what we already controlled? Stalin (more than America) had defeated the Nazi Army, and held unrivalled power stretching from Berlin to Japan. The threat of nukes would temproarily silence him, but how could we possibly have controlled even Eastern Europe? let alone, China, Asia, or anywhere else. Blowing stuff up is actually the easy part of war; holding onto the territory you grab is entirely different. Bottom line, America at the end of the war was triumphant, but exhausted, economically and militarily.

SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: Liberals & Atheists Smarter? Intelligent Ppl Have Values Novel in Human Evol. History, Study Finds (2/25/2010 3:58:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife Retribution had nothing to do with it. The Japanese were militarily defeated but their code of honor refused to allow them to accept the concept of surrender. It has been estimated that an invasion of Japan would have killed more than a million Allied soldiers. Even after the initial bomb was dropped in Hiroshima Japan refused terms of surrender. It was only after the Nagasaki bombing they capitulated. There were only three days between bombings and the Japanese only knew for sure what had occurred in the first after the announcement in the US sixteen hours later. Expecting immediate surrender is a bit unrealistic when you are trying to make sense of something of that magnitude perhaps? People talk numbers but numbers are all theory when they say things like, 'it was expected to'. Just look at your heath care debate or stimulus bill, they don't know the numbers they are estimating at best and guessing at worst.

GotSteel -> RE: Liberals & Atheists Smarter? Intelligent Ppl Have Values Novel in Human Evol. History, Study Finds (2/25/2010 3:59:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: KatyLied I think that embracing atheism is against the norm... That depends on where you are, it's quite normal around here. "It could be culture, cold weather or the educational level of its residents, but New Hampshire ranks at or near the bottom of the 50 states on questions of religious faith.....That 54 percent result tied New Hampshire with neighboring Vermont for dead last on the poll’s question of faith in a higher power." http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/news/500878-196/poll-ranks-nh-low-on-matters-of.html

GotSteel -> RE: Liberals & Atheists Smarter? Intelligent Ppl Have Values Novel in Human Evol. History, Study Finds (2/25/2010 4:01:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: StrangerThan Seems like a more subtle version of europeans are smarter and have bigger cities because it was cold where they lived rather than grass huts in sub-saharan environments. I'm not buying this, seems like there wasn't any racism in the study until you added it.

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