RE: Just as I Thought: Acorn Pimp Story=Hoax

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NeedToUseYou -> RE: Just as I Thought: Acorn Pimp Story=Hoax (3/7/2010 6:08:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou Anybody have a link to the unedited footage? Seems simple enough to set the record straight simply post the unedited video on youtube, it wouldn't even cost anything, until that happens, I still only have the portions released of the acorn employees giving advice for prostitution. If it is out there, please give the link I'd like to see it. In other words you are quite willing to rush to judgement and presume quilt based on the edited versions now available....portions released by parties with a demonstrable political bias?Does that about sum up your position?You are comfortable with this position? I got to tell you,for myself,if the shoe was on the other foot.....I would never admit to such a POV,on pain of death I would hold fast to the position that everyone gets a fair break....but you must be a better man than me....you are willing to admit and stand up and be counted......as a complete and utter idiot! Oh wow, well, you confirmed you're rude, and arrogant at the very least.... As far as answering your question, no thanks, I don't have conversations with people that call others idiots, over little things like this. What's the point. Yeah, this place has jumped the shark.

thompsonx -> RE: Just as I Thought: Acorn Pimp Story=Hoax (3/7/2010 6:45:12 AM)
quote: Assuming you think promoting the entitlement mentality is "doing good." Dick,why is it that people like you like to have your entitlements but don't want others to have them. Are you ready to eliminate the mortgage interest deduction? Are you ready to eliminate the deduction for children and other dependents? Are you willing to eliminate the five point gift to vets on their civil service exam?

thompsonx -> RE: Just as I Thought: Acorn Pimp Story=Hoax (3/7/2010 6:50:09 AM)
quote: I still only have the portions released of the acorn employees giving advice for prostitution. You are clearly against prostitution. You seem to believe that people should not be allowed to contract for goods and services. What the fuck are you doing on this website? We are a bunch of self confessed kinksters. What other forms of sexual expression are you and your kind interested in making illegal?

pahunkboy -> RE: Just as I Thought: Acorn Pimp Story=Hoax (3/7/2010 6:51:35 AM)
not to worry. k-street will figure it all out.

DarkSteven -> RE: Just as I Thought: Acorn Pimp Story=Hoax (3/7/2010 6:53:48 AM)
Screw whatever ACORN did in the past. That's not relevant. What IS relevant is that the guy videotaped ACORN workers without their consent and then changed the content of the tape. He then released it as though it had not been edited. There is no question that ACORN suffered as a result, both its image and its funding. ACORN needs to sue, fast and for heavy damages, and to demand apologies from all concerned. This could be fascinating legally, as I have never heard of another case where a doctored video presented as unedited, could be the basis for libel.

pahunkboy -> RE: Just as I Thought: Acorn Pimp Story=Hoax (3/7/2010 7:06:16 AM)
I was once on the acorn email list. But I have since canceled.

juliaoceania -> RE: Just as I Thought: Acorn Pimp Story=Hoax (3/7/2010 7:08:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven Screw whatever ACORN did in the past. That's not relevant. What IS relevant is that the guy videotaped ACORN workers without their consent and then changed the content of the tape. He then released it as though it had not been edited. There is no question that ACORN suffered as a result, both its image and its funding. ACORN needs to sue, fast and for heavy damages, and to demand apologies from all concerned. This could be fascinating legally, as I have never heard of another case where a doctored video presented as unedited, could be the basis for libel. I would especially think that the employees that lost their jobs should sue, and get the tapes submitted into court. You are exactly right. Imagine that someone comes into your work and splices together footage to make you look a fool and then publicly shames you...

DarkSteven -> RE: Just as I Thought: Acorn Pimp Story=Hoax (3/7/2010 7:16:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania Imagine that someone comes into your work and splices together footage to make you look a fool and then publicly shames you... Making me look like a fool wouldn't be hard and wouldn't be that actionable. Making me look like someone supporting illegal prostitution and sex with minors is a helluva lot more serious.

rulemylife -> RE: Just as I Thought: Acorn Pimp Story=Hoax (3/7/2010 7:30:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven ACORN needs to sue, fast and for heavy damages, and to demand apologies from all concerned. This could be fascinating legally, as I have never heard of another case where a doctored video presented as unedited, could be the basis for libel. They already are. There are suits pending against O'Keefe, Giles, and Breitbart. There has been talk of suing Fox News as well. Libel is not the issue though. The basis of the legal actions are laws in Maryland and Pennsylvania that prohibit the taping of private meetings unless all parties consent. Fox analyst: ACORN worker's lawsuit 'absolutely' has merit \| Raw Story This is the second lawsuit in which ACORN or its employees have alleged wrongdoing against O'Keefe and Giles. Last fall, ACORN filed a similar suit with a Maryland court over the filmmakers' recording of ACORN's Baltimore office. Maryland's laws on secret recording of conversations are similar to Pennsylvania's.

DomImus -> RE: Just as I Thought: Acorn Pimp Story=Hoax (3/7/2010 7:53:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Please present one substantiated case. While I am quite certain no information that I will provide will ever meet your threshold of substantiated.... One Two Three Four Your ability to look past all of ACORN's publicly funded unethical behavior is truly a magnanimous gesture on your part. Pity you were not available for the Watergate special prosecutor slot. Nixon's second term might have changed his legacy dramatically.

DomImus -> RE: Just as I Thought: Acorn Pimp Story=Hoax (3/7/2010 8:06:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven Screw whatever ACORN did in the past. That's not relevant. What IS relevant is that the guy videotaped ACORN workers without their consent and then changed the content of the tape. He then released it as though it had not been edited. There is no question that ACORN suffered as a result, both its image and its funding. ACORN needs to sue, fast and for heavy damages, and to demand apologies from all concerned. This could be fascinating legally, as I have never heard of another case where a doctored video presented as unedited, could be the basis for libel. It's hard to imagine how anything that was left out of the ACORN tape could have altered the context of that which was left in. Unless maybe it was the excerpts where he paid them to say that stuff. Based on past behavior I wouldn't put it past them to accept. I'm not defending O'Keefe or his methods or motivations. That seems to be the gist of this thread. Make O'Keefe the villian and that exonerates ACORN.

LadyEllen -> RE: Just as I Thought: Acorn Pimp Story=Hoax (3/7/2010 8:10:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen an organization that did a lot of good very quietly for many years. Assuming you think promoting the entitlement mentality is "doing good." If there are things to which people are entitled, but they have not taken up those entitlements because they lack the knowledge of them or the know how to apply for them, then in providing information about the entitlements and assistance in applying for them an organisation is surely doing good in that the entitlements are the deliverable product of constitutionally or democratically determined policy aims. As such, the fact that such organisations are needed indicates a government failure to sufficiently advertise, inform about or deliver those policy aims. Which must surely indicate that the right wing view of government being inefficient is vindicated by the existence and activities of these organisations, and that therefore the right wing view ought to be to support these organisations and their work as evidence of their anti-government position. Further, that the right wing ought to be looking towards such groups as repacements for failing government agencies, thereby reducing the size of government. And one might ask, where does the money go to from all the unclaimed entitlements? A certain sum shall have been allocated in the budget to provide the entitlements to all who might claim them - evidently not all those who might claim them do claim them and therefore there will be a surplus on that aspect of the budget at year end, representing not only a failure to deliver by government but also a tidy sum which might go towards funding other programmes such as (for instance) tax cuts for the highest earners, thereby skewing the overall economic picture and promoting the wealth gap which the entitlements were meant to close. And perhaps this is the reason why such organisations get such a bad press in some quarters and attempts are made to sideline them. Well, that and the voting tendencies of those who tend to need them most often. E

DomKen -> RE: Just as I Thought: Acorn Pimp Story=Hoax (3/7/2010 8:40:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomImus quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Please present one substantiated case. While I am quite certain no information that I will provide will ever meet your threshold of substantiated.... One Two Three Four Your ability to look past all of ACORN's publicly funded unethical behavior is truly a magnanimous gesture on your part. Pity you were not available for the Watergate special prosecutor slot. Nixon's second term might have changed his legacy dramatically. Let's see what you have, a site full of claims with no way to verify. 2 news stories, neither of which claimed any fraudulent votes were cast, and an opinion column from a Murdoch organ. So were these supposed to substantiate your claim that ACORN had engaged in massive vote fraud?

TheHeretic -> RE: Just as I Thought: Acorn Pimp Story=Hoax (3/7/2010 9:59:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Let's see what you have, a site full of claims with no way to verify. 2 news stories, neither of which claimed any fraudulent votes were cast, and an opinion column from a Murdoch organ. So were these supposed to substantiate your claim that ACORN had engaged in massive vote fraud? Given your own history of posting links that say nothing like what you claim they say, Ken, I'm rather surprised you would choose to take this route of argument.

Musicmystery -> RE: Just as I Thought: Acorn Pimp Story=Hoax (3/7/2010 10:01:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven Screw whatever ACORN did in the past. That's not relevant. What IS relevant is that the guy videotaped ACORN workers without their consent and then changed the content of the tape. He then released it as though it had not been edited. There is no question that ACORN suffered as a result, both its image and its funding. ACORN needs to sue, fast and for heavy damages, and to demand apologies from all concerned. This could be fascinating legally, as I have never heard of another case where a doctored video presented as unedited, could be the basis for libel. Several groups, including in NY, because of all this legal distraction and undeserved poor publicity, have reorganized under different names. Same people, same work, but without the ACORN anchor. I agree with what you said, but I think the groups are interested in practical solutions related to their mission more.

Musicmystery -> RE: Just as I Thought: Acorn Pimp Story=Hoax (3/7/2010 10:04:44 AM)
quote: I would especially think that the employees that lost their jobs should sue, and get the tapes submitted into court. I do agree here, though wonder if it would lead to any satisfactory outcome, especially as ACORN groups reform outside of ACORN.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Just as I Thought: Acorn Pimp Story=Hoax (3/7/2010 10:21:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomImus quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven Screw whatever ACORN did in the past. That's not relevant. What IS relevant is that the guy videotaped ACORN workers without their consent and then changed the content of the tape. He then released it as though it had not been edited. There is no question that ACORN suffered as a result, both its image and its funding. ACORN needs to sue, fast and for heavy damages, and to demand apologies from all concerned. This could be fascinating legally, as I have never heard of another case where a doctored video presented as unedited, could be the basis for libel. It's hard to imagine how anything that was left out of the ACORN tape could have altered the context of that which was left in. Unless maybe it was the excerpts where he paid them to say that stuff. Based on past behavior I wouldn't put it past them to accept. I'm not defending O'Keefe or his methods or motivations. That seems to be the gist of this thread. Make O'Keefe the villian and that exonerates ACORN. How about if I edit your post a little bit... quote: Anything that was left out of the ACORN tape could have altered the context of that which was left in. quote: I'm defending O'Keefe. I'm defending his methods. I'm defending his motivations. See the possibilities? I'd like to see the complete, unedited tapes. For every one of those incriminating statements by ACORN workers, I'd like to see the exact question or remark by O'Keefe that prompted that response. Then I'll draw my own conclusions.

slvemike4u -> RE: Just as I Thought: Acorn Pimp Story=Hoax (3/7/2010 10:52:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou Anybody have a link to the unedited footage? Seems simple enough to set the record straight simply post the unedited video on youtube, it wouldn't even cost anything, until that happens, I still only have the portions released of the acorn employees giving advice for prostitution. If it is out there, please give the link I'd like to see it. In other words you are quite willing to rush to judgement and presume quilt based on the edited versions now available....portions released by parties with a demonstrable political bias?Does that about sum up your position?You are comfortable with this position? I got to tell you,for myself,if the shoe was on the other foot.....I would never admit to such a POV,on pain of death I would hold fast to the position that everyone gets a fair break....but you must be a better man than me....you are willing to admit and stand up and be counted......as a complete and utter idiot! Oh wow, well, you confirmed you're rude, and arrogant at the very least.... As far as answering your question, no thanks, I don't have conversations with people that call others idiots, over little things like this. What's the point. Yeah, this place has jumped the shark. Yeah ,your right it was a rude and arrogant post,made after a long night out and foolishly posted.....my apologies!

TheHeretic -> RE: Just as I Thought: Acorn Pimp Story=Hoax (3/7/2010 10:55:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda Maybe if you'd explain why you have that view of them, we could agree or disagree. I don't have to go over this again, do I Panda? My opinion, as stated God knows how many times, is that it is right and proper for a nation such as ours to have a safety net, but that it should not be allowed to become a comfy hammock. It is perspective. People on the thread speak of ACORN taking on "slumlords," and expect their phrasing to set the definition. Dragging out the eviction of a tenant who has trashed the property and fails to pay the rent on time gets described a bit differently by me. Free education sounds so wonderful, who could be opposed? How about the student who is going to complete a degree program with $200,000 in debt, and finish with the same degree as someone who sits next to them and got a ride on the taxpayer back? Have you ever actually been poor, Panda? Busted your ass, working overtime every day because you don't eat without getting 10 hours of crap-and-a-half onto the paycheck? Gone looking for a roof with the means you have, and discovered that welfare programs pay more to house the unemployable than you can afford? Do you understand how the system actually discourages youth from breaking the cycle? Ever worked your way up into living in a decent little neighborhood, only to see it become a ghetto because of an influx of subsidized housing? Or are those things blocked by the blinders of liberal guilt? Your mileage probably varies considerably. California has something like 10-11% percent of the US population, but damn near a third of the welfare caseload. It looks different from where I sit.

juliaoceania -> RE: Just as I Thought: Acorn Pimp Story=Hoax (3/7/2010 11:52:52 AM)
quote: Have you ever actually been poor, Panda? Busted your ass, working overtime every day because you don't eat without getting 10 hours of crap-and-a-half onto the paycheck? Gone looking for a roof with the means you have, and discovered that welfare programs pay more to house the unemployable than you can afford? Do you understand how the system actually discourages youth from breaking the cycle? Ever worked your way up into living in a decent little neighborhood, only to see it become a ghetto because of an influx of subsidized housing? Or are those things blocked by the blinders of lib You will have credibility when you rail against the rich getting tax subsidies... The rich take far more from you than the poor ever will. They take it in the form of tax breaks you don't get. They take it in the form of actual government grants for their "businesses", they take it in corporate welfare.They hire lobbyists to make sure they get their pound of flesh... but if the poor have even one advocate you are going to rail on them? That is utter crap, it is called class warfare, the working poor against the unworking poor.... When the working poor turn against those who do not work for whatever reason (health, mental disability, inability to find a job in a bad economy), I always think that they are dupes... they have been duped by the "pull yerself up by yer bootstraps" ideology that the rich use to manipulate them

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