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RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/14/2010 3:30:28 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Another blog demanding that atheists be nice to the religious. Been there done that and it got us precisely nowhere.



What's the objective then? Where exactly are you trying to get to?

Religion can be a positive construct for a lot of people - so I'm not sure why you would want law abiding people to relinquish something which helps them live their lives in a positive manner.

And religion is far from the only belief system that relies on the abstract - take a look at the principles of Liberalism and you will see ideals rooted in the abstract.

Personally I would take the Archbishop of Canterbury over Richard Dawkins any day. I've listened to both of them and although I'm a 'seeing is believing' type person I prefer the Archbishop's quiet approach when compared with Dawkins having slogans (propaganda) splashed all over buses.

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/14/2010 3:37:46 AM   
JonnieBoy


Posts: 1468
Joined: 4/22/2009
From: Cymru
Status: offline 		Awful ... and wholy unholy visual of NG "taking" the archbishop of canterbury ... leads me to the belief that all is not what it may seem to be ... depending on how one looks at these things.

Pirate

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/14/2010 3:56:40 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		The trouble I have with most atheists is their assumption that anyone who believes there exists a diety must believe in the diety they believe doesn't exist.  Meaning, they have defined that diety first and then say It doesn't exist.  Then they accuse all 'believers' in believing in their (the atheists) definition or concept of God. 

The other trouble I have is the assumption by most atheists that anyone who does recognize a Great Spirit of some sort is incapable of making decisions based on logic, of accepting scientific evidence, that only atheists do that and anyone else is delusional.

To say there cannot be a God because God wouldn't let Nazis kill millions of Jews is not, in my opinion, atheism.  Because by golly that is so convenient to call God an asshole.  There is no God!  WHO then allowed the Nazis to kill millions of Jews?  The answer is the same whether you are a believer or an atheist!  It's not an answer we like to see in the light.

I don't have a problem with atheism at all.  They do not compete with me, they do not effect my quality of life.  I DO have a problem with the political activism of the religious right.  Primarily because I don't see any evidence of religion, just a group of hate-mongers hiding behind the skirts of some Great Hater they call God.  Their hatred does effect the quality of my life.  But because I believe in a Spirit, does not make me the same as them!

I admit I am afraid of extremists of any sort.  Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao Zedong,  affirmed atheists were still evil men.  Evil exists with or without a diety.  If we would work together to counter evil instead of spending our time dividing, dividing, dividing until there is nothing left to stand for... maybe just maybe would could make a better world.

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RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/14/2010 4:24:59 AM   
JonnieBoy


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Joined: 4/22/2009
From: Cymru
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quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

To say there cannot be a God because God wouldn't let Nazis kill millions of Jews is not, in my opinion, atheism.


Good post, I picked the line above so as to agree with you on a definate. I've been "called" an "atheist" more times than I can count, yet I have a belief system. Belief is to the individual eye. Almost all organised religion is "modern" "faith" to me and I have nothing but respect for those that can endure the constraints which it appears to place upon their lives. That does not mean I'm a potential convert to anything, I understand a number of various "religions" in some depth and they pretty much all seem to have bloody good ideas on whats right or wrong.

My headache is when "religious" people can't understand their own faith systems and accept me for myself. I'm a good man who would probably put most of them to shame by my honesty and true intent, but nevertheless get insulted by terms like "Pagan" or "Atheist" (of which I'm neither).

I still think that a discussion on "Atheism" does most definately NOT belong under "religion" as a title.

Pirate

(in reply to eyesopened)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/14/2010 4:59:37 AM   
JonnieBoy


Posts: 1468
Joined: 4/22/2009
From: Cymru
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Apocalypso

Lack of solid confidence -- some atheists seem to lack confidence in their atheism, leading them to constantly seek validation for it, and to an exaggerated hostility towards religion as a whole and so on.



I respect your efforts and you've posted many, many wise words in the past on lots of different topics, but this quote does not belong in religion, one either IS or one is NOT an atheist. Hostility towards religion is nothing to do with being an atheist.

Pirate

(in reply to Apocalypso)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/14/2010 5:03:31 AM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline 		Hmm....this blogger couldn't possibly sound less like an atheist.

(in reply to Apocalypso)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/14/2010 5:04:53 AM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
American has nothing to do with white supremacy.

Seriously, it's about time you seek professional help.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/14/2010 5:04:55 AM   
JonnieBoy


Posts: 1468
Joined: 4/22/2009
From: Cymru
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

you still consider yourself American but you’re also Canadian.
 


You missed the "news" kiddo ... Canadians ARE also American

Pirate

(in reply to Brain)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/14/2010 5:06:36 AM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline 		That was a pretty big strawman.

(in reply to eyesopened)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/14/2010 5:46:23 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline
quote:

It's kind of like being an American who moved to Canada and you still consider yourself American but you’re also Canadian.


Bad example, Brain, I know that the term American has been claimed by those from the US, but since both countries are in North America we are all Americans.


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(in reply to Brain)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/14/2010 5:52:08 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


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From: The Great Frozen North
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy

Does a topic on "Atheism" actually belong under "religion"

Grinz

Pirate



GOD no!!!!!


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(in reply to JonnieBoy)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/14/2010 5:52:25 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Another blog demanding that atheists be nice to the religious. Been there done that and it got us precisely nowhere.



What's the objective then? Where exactly are you trying to get to?

Religion can be a positive construct for a lot of people - so I'm not sure why you would want law abiding people to relinquish something which helps them live their lives in a positive manner.

And religion is far from the only belief system that relies on the abstract - take a look at the principles of Liberalism and you will see ideals rooted in the abstract.

Personally I would take the Archbishop of Canterbury over Richard Dawkins any day. I've listened to both of them and although I'm a 'seeing is believing' type person I prefer the Archbishop's quiet approach when compared with Dawkins having slogans (propaganda) splashed all over buses.

For me the objective of the New Atheism is to no longer be treated like I don't exist or at best invalid due to my lack of belief. To never again hear the tired lie that 'there are no atheists in foxholes.' To not be the subject of casual and accepted bigotry that would never be tolerated against even the most fringe of religious beliefs.

For instance not too many years ago a major TV hostess said on air that "Under no circumstances would I ever vote for an atheist [for President] because they are terrible [and have] no moral code." and she never apologized and was not taken off the air over the incident. substitute christian, jew or even hindu for atheist in that quote and I guarantee you that the result would have been quite different.

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/14/2010 7:44:12 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy

Does a topic on "Atheism" actually belong under "religion"





Why not?  It's a faith-based system of belief.

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/14/2010 8:02:07 AM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

hen believers run up against the hard fact that no matter how comprehensive the religion and no matter how detailed it is, it simply does not and cannot have answers for all the problems that occur in anyone's life, and in the whole human condition.


Religion is no substitute for science and science is no substitute for religion.. as soon as both sides realize this then they can perhaps get along


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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/14/2010 8:15:40 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		Any organized religion will incorporate a belief in God with a set of rules on how to live life.  Atheism is nothing more than the rejection of belief in God and does not include any system of ethics or laws.

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/14/2010 8:26:26 AM   
rulemylife


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Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Any organized religion will incorporate a belief in God with a set of rules on how to live life.  Atheism is nothing more than the rejection of belief in God and does not include any system of ethics or laws.


So, am I misreading or are you saying that those who do not participate in organized religion have no moral code or ethics?

Is it only through religion we find how to live life?

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/14/2010 8:29:44 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Any organized religion will incorporate a belief in God with a set of rules on how to live life.  Atheism is nothing more than the rejection of belief in God and does not include any system of ethics or laws.


So, am I misreading or are you saying that those who do not participate in organized religion have no moral code or ethics?

Is it only through religion we find how to live life?



Wow...get defensive when you perceive an attack on your sacred cows!

That isn't what he said... He said simply Atheism ISN'T a set of moral rules or ethics.. he did not say individual atheists lack those things...


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/14/2010 8:30:47 AM   
Smutmonger


Posts: 995
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline 		I actually see a weaker moral compass with people who think they can "pray and be forgiven" than I do with non faith individuals.

We accept that there are consequences for poor behavior-and there is no higher power to pass the buck to.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Any organized religion will incorporate a belief in God with a set of rules on how to live life.  Atheism is nothing more than the rejection of belief in God and does not include any system of ethics or laws.


So, am I misreading or are you saying that those who do not participate in organized religion have no moral code or ethics?

Is it only through religion we find how to live life?



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(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/14/2010 8:41:58 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Any organized religion will incorporate a belief in God with a set of rules on how to live life.  Atheism is nothing more than the rejection of belief in God and does not include any system of ethics or laws.


So, am I misreading or are you saying that those who do not participate in organized religion have no moral code or ethics?

Is it only through religion we find how to live life?



Wow...get defensive when you perceive an attack on your sacred cows!

That isn't what he said... He said simply Atheism ISN'T a set of moral rules or ethics.. he did not say individual atheists lack those things...



It wasn't getting defensive, it was a question.

Look in the mirror about being defensive.

Just as you did on the other thread, any questioning of religious belief is greeted by you with hostility.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: The Problem With Atheists - 3/14/2010 8:51:18 AM   
belladevine


Posts: 437
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		Athesism is just one more group joining into a religious war. No one can prove that there is a God so a religious war is a lose lose situation.

I prefer to focus on things that can be managed for the good of all Americans. America will never be united if we are continually at war with each other.

Most religious people in America use the Holey Bible as their refrence guide to God.
The first God mentioned in Genesis was a self proclaimed HUMAN that lived in a city called UR.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Ziggurat_of_Ur

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 40
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