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RE: Submission vs kinky vanilla sex - 3/15/2010 5:16:25 AM

CelticPrince

Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

I don't understand what you mean by half-way house here. I do think your friend needs to talk with her about what he needs, and what he would expect if she *did* give him control in those areas, instead of just assuming she will because she likes sucking cock. She might be very much willing to give him what he wants and needs, or they might find a compromise that works for her, but starting out with unspoken expectations doesn't serve anyone well.

Andalucite,

I believe that the point of a "half way house" suggests an arena that does not step into the path of D/s but does offer the expectation of non routine sex. He is not a friend, just a new Dom that has sought some input form aanother on a mentoring basis.

CP

(in reply to Andalusite)

Post #: 21

RE: Submission vs kinky vanilla sex - 3/15/2010 5:18:31 AM

CelticPrince

Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

I do hope the force will be with Dark Steven, but my Master's name is David..MasteroftheDark in NJ.

wisdom,

oops. my error; but the thought is still there.

CP

(in reply to wisdomtogive)

Post #: 22

RE: Submission vs kinky vanilla sex - 3/15/2010 5:24:45 AM

CelticPrince

Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:

It was in the context of sex that I discovered my need to submit, but I have since realized that I want to submit in ALL things.

takeme,

There is a foundation for most everything we do and it is great that you recognized your path. Thanks for your input and good to see you on the boards.

CP

(in reply to takemeforyourown)

Post #: 23

RE: Submission vs kinky vanilla sex - 3/15/2010 5:28:54 AM

CelticPrince

Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

It sounds like he wants her to be something she isn't. He made assumptions based on his own desires without talking to her. She has every right to want a power equal relationship with kinky sex. He has every right to want a power relationship. But by not discussing what they both wanted and determining if there was sufficient compatibility ahead of time, they got a relationship that makes neither of them happy.

Hopefully they will learn to communicate better in the future or they will repeat these mistakes.

Of course, she may be submissive but not feel that he is someone she can submit to. Perhaps she doesn't trust his decision making because he doesn't make good decisions. We don't have enough information to judge.

Des,

I believe you hit the nail on the head and addresses my biggest grip re the path of D/s; folks just do not let a relationship ripen before they move to a more serious state. Laughs, "insane" huh!

CP

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 24

RE: Submission vs kinky vanilla sex - 3/15/2010 5:37:04 AM

CelticPrince

Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Not that it matters, but I was on Collarme Message boards in mid-2004 a little over a year before Lucky Albatross and they were my call letters first. That said, I do hold her posts in high esteem and find only a compliment in being mixed up with her.

That said, I'm not sure I understand your question.

*slips the Lady some skin softener for those tender toes'

My comment was directed toward what I percieved to be not addressing the D/s element of the problem he faced.

CP

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

Post #: 25

RE: Submission vs kinky vanilla sex - 3/15/2010 5:44:55 AM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

Focus,

more male subs then fem subs??? really

good observation tho.

CP

Based partly on my observations at munches where usually 50% (and more) in attendance are male/subs and partly from reading Forum Boards where many a Domme gets exasperated at being pestered by assertive "do me" male/subs....

I would imagine a "do me" fem/sub would be quite a handful (and headful) for a new Dom, esp when his dick inevitably needs a spell.... lol

It's still about control, though; it's just that she's actually controlling him via his dick. If he wants to call himself a Dom, he should work on controlling his own appendage instead of the tail wagging him.

Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to CelticPrince)

Post #: 26

RE: Submission vs kinky vanilla sex - 3/15/2010 6:17:07 AM

allthatjaz

Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

She sounds like your common or garden variety "do me" submissive. Seems a little more common among male/subs but that's likely 'cause there's more of them.

If this "new Dominant" wants more than a bedroom submissive, he'll need to find someone who's focused on more than her own selfish desires.

Focus.

Why selfish desires? She is clearly sexually submissive but that doesn't make her selfish, that makes her sexually submissive!!
Not everyone wants to submit out of the bedroom. That has nothing to do with being a 'do me sub' but all to do with preference.

< Message edited by allthatjaz -- 3/15/2010 6:26:03 AM >

_____________________________

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Fan of edgeplay.co.uk

(in reply to Focus50)

Post #: 27

RE: Submission vs kinky vanilla sex - 3/15/2010 7:22:47 AM

Smutmonger

Posts: 995
Joined: 2/17/2010
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The clash of expectations is pretty common with people who rush in with no boundaries.

_____________________________

I didn't get into an alternative lifestyle to explore new frontiers in conformity.

(in reply to allthatjaz)

Post #: 28

RE: Submission vs kinky vanilla sex - 3/15/2010 7:53:28 AM

MsHValentine

Posts: 80
Joined: 1/6/2010
Status: offline

I often wonder this too. I wonder if women identifying as 'submissive' are saying that they like to be done a certain way in the bedroom. Is this submission if you're getting your way in the bedroom? Does the submission stops there? For some I would say so, and others no. Are there as many women who want to actually do any sort of "serving"? Serve via their labor? I often wonder about the women in Daddy relationships, are they serving or are they just being taken care of by someone who makes better decisions for their lives? The same for the opposite sex. I'm happy this thread is here and I'm interested in learning.

(in reply to CelticPrince)

Post #: 29

RE: Submission vs kinky vanilla sex - 3/15/2010 9:00:56 AM

Nslavu

Posts: 342
Joined: 2/1/2010
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This may sound like it's coming from left field here; but in understanding what 'submissive' is and what it means, I think we get a better picture of where a sub/slave is in development or their preferred criteria for submission. This is just a theory of mine at this point.

I think we can generally agree that submission is love. There isn't anyone who feels love unless they have submitted to it. Love is always a state of giving, or accepting, never a state of taking or fighting back. Love is a state of surrender. Even a D submits to providing what is needed, submitting to taking over and managing any range of criteria. So even in control a D in that moment prior to control submits or realizes that he/she loves to D or be a Dominant, loves to be facilitator of that sub's depth of submission/love for what they are doing. I think submission is the physical, real world manifestation of love. So, when one submits to something he/she is generally saying they love it.

Taking this into account you can reasonably assume that someone who only submits in the bdrm, loves sex and or kink or is in love with it. Are they in love with their partner? When we extrapolate this theory, we find that someone who totally submits has one of two scenarios for being that way. (i) they are someone who is full of love for every aspect giving, even though they may have some boundaries regarding who they apply it to. (ii) they are someone who is full of love for their partner, even though they may have some boundaries in it's expression.

Taking it further. I think it is quite likely that someone can love their work, their family, etc and hence not surrender that part of their life to a partner because they have already surrendered or submitted to their work or that part of their lives. They love it! It's part of who they need/want to be. Weekenders love it on weekends... etc .

The other aspect is the one of boundaries. Fear, mistrust, pain, etc and in submission it is likely one's need to get past those boundaries and find love or surrender to trust, fearlessness, pain and what have you.

So, a bdrm only sub is bound (loves something else ) in some way once they leave the bedroom. Until they become aware of something else to submit to or some 'one' else they would or might love more, one pretty much has to accept/submit/love who and what that person is or move on. I don't understand the need for constantly frustrating one's self over "why won't they do this or that in this or that situation." Love them, accept them, or move on, because you obviously are not in a relationship where you can truly and fully express who and what you love/accept.

If communication doesn't alter the situation ( and communication about one's boundaries is an extremely important part of partnering I think) then you're kidding yourself that thing will just change on their own. I spend a lot of time reading profiles and asking questions, just because I would prefer someone, who before hand already has the tendency toward the submissions that suit my needs. There's less frustration that way.

Ya ...just a theory I have.

Anyway in the OP you said it clearly, "she worships cock" , which in my book doesn't equate to only your friend's cock.

(in reply to CelticPrince)

Post #: 30

RE: Submission vs kinky vanilla sex - 3/15/2010 10:25:17 AM

CelticPrince

Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Good to see you CP!

I love sex! I have even come damn close to worshiping a cock or two in my time... (so damn good!) but that had nothing to do with submitting or being submissive! I am dominant and I can love sex and a cock.

For someone to think that because someone loves sex and a cock, they are submissive, they are in error, not the wayward submissive who isn't a submissive most likely and thus their problems. He jumped to a conclusion, seemingly didn't communicate too well and showed proof of why communication is needed and jumping to conclusions is faulty.

I think this is a different subject on whether people come for the sex and are slipping in under a false flag. She wasn't saying she was submissive. She was saying I love cock and sex! lol

As for some who do slip in... flying a flag of submission or dominance for the sex... you betcha and I have proof in my email every single day! lol They think we are kinky, loose women ready to jump on any cock that presents itself. lol Hell, they even tell their friends about us and invite them in too!

Lockit,

Damn, I just could not have said it better than that. Now hoe do we go about controlling those false flag folks?

CP

(in reply to Lockit)

Post #: 31

RE: Submission vs kinky vanilla sex - 3/15/2010 10:43:40 AM

dreamerdreaming

Posts: 2839
Status: offline

Welcome back, homey!

This is why we have the acronym WIITWD. Because the acronym BDSM just does not encompass it all. If they only ever want kinky sex without the D/s, (ei. bedroom tops and bottoms, etc.) then that's fine. It is a part of WIITWD that is every bit as legitimate under our umbrella as 24/7 TPE, etc.

I couldn't tell you if there are more or less people coming in just from a desire to experiment with bedroom kink, as there were in the past, or if what you're noticing is because things are just more visible these days due to the internet.

ETA: What Lockit said. There are tons of guys coming in here that are really just vanilla and horny, who think they can get easy sex here. If thats what you're complaining about CP, I'm right there with you. I say we hunt them all down and brand them.
And yeah, there's nothing about sucking cock that is inherently submissive. If I want to suck my slaveboy's cock, he will submit to it, goddamn it! Resistance is futile.

< Message edited by dreamerdreaming -- 3/15/2010 10:53:18 AM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to CelticPrince)

Post #: 32

RE: Submission vs kinky vanilla sex - 3/15/2010 1:21:21 PM

lally2

Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline

im not sure i can separate submission from sex. i am as sexually driven as the next person and i happen to also be submissive. sex doesnt have to be kinky for me to be submissive.

i would imagine that for many people the two are inextricably linked to start with too, but it is far more highly charged. if their fantasies (and most fantasies are sexual) have been linked to submissive acts or Dominant acts then the realisation that they can fulfill those (sexual) fantasies of submission and Dominance are going to be of a peeked sexual orientation.

its not until youve been around the track a few times that you settle into what you are and realise that not everything to do with submission and Dominance is sexual, not all youre fantasies get you wet in reality, not all acts of submission or Dominance always result in sex.

i think its where the 'frenzy' thing comes into it a bit. highly sexually charged initial explorations driven by fantasy.

initially its hugely sexual and inextricably linked to their submissive or Dominant motivations. over time it remains inextricably linked because we are still sexual sentient beings and we are still submissive and Dominant.

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to dreamerdreaming)

Post #: 33

RE: Submission vs kinky vanilla sex - 3/15/2010 1:49:38 PM

Focus50

Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

Why selfish desires? She is clearly sexually submissive but that doesn't make her selfish, that makes her sexually submissive!!
Not everyone wants to submit out of the bedroom. That has nothing to do with being a 'do me sub' but all to do with preference.

My reading of the OP is that she's getting what she wants from the relationship and he's not. Combine that with him being an inexperienced Dom and that she (the submissive) is controlling the relationship through sex makes her both a "do me" submissive and selfish with it - IMO.

And the "preference" makes them incompatible because the new Dom clearly does want someone who's submissive outside the bedroom, too. I'd imagine there must be tension between them because of individual preference and as one who once had the exasperating experience of a "do me" submissive, I don't see an amicable compromise in their future....

Their relatioship is largely defined by her needs. That's selfish and ultimately terminal - again, IMO.

Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to allthatjaz)

Post #: 34

RE: Submission vs kinky vanilla sex - 3/15/2010 2:48:41 PM

CelticPrince

Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

Welcome back to posting, Sir. I was wondering what had become of you.

Hey pepper,

nice to hear from you..........still rollin rollin with Gary Sir?

CP

(in reply to peppermint)

Post #: 35

RE: Submission vs kinky vanilla sex - 3/15/2010 5:30:03 PM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

quote:

Not that it matters, but I was on Collarme Message boards in mid-2004 a little over a year before Lucky Albatross and they were my call letters first. That said, I do hold her posts in high esteem and find only a compliment in being mixed up with her.

That said, I'm not sure I understand your question.

*slips the Lady some skin softener for those tender toes'

My comment was directed toward what I percieved to be not addressing the D/s element of the problem he faced.

CP

Alright... I must be having a total blonde moment as I have absolutely no idea what I'm not addressing.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to CelticPrince)

Post #: 36

RE: Submission vs kinky vanilla sex - 3/15/2010 5:34:56 PM

LunarBull

Posts: 3
Joined: 3/6/2010
Status: offline

I can only respond based on my experience. I came in and out of the rain for the kinky sex and ended up staying for the lifestyle. The lifestyle has given me a way to express what I once could not put into words. Be good to yourself this week.

(in reply to peppermint)

Post #: 37

RE: Submission vs kinky vanilla sex - 3/15/2010 6:38:34 PM

beej

Posts: 145
Joined: 1/24/2010
Status: offline

i agree with these two:

quote:

ORIGINAL: LunarBull

I can only respond based on my experience. I came in and out of the rain for the kinky sex and ended up staying for the lifestyle. The lifestyle has given me a way to express what I once could not put into words.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

its not until youve been around the track a few times that you settle into what you are and realise that not everything to do with submission and Dominance is sexual, not all youre fantasies get you wet in reality, not all acts of submission or Dominance always result in sex. i think its where the 'frenzy' thing comes into it a bit. highly sexually charged initial explorations driven by fantasy. initially its hugely sexual and inextricably linked to their submissive or Dominant motivations.

when i first came here, a friend referred me to the site to talk about polyamory just for curiosity's sake. as someone said earlier about kink being the new black in pop media, i thought i was cool for sticking a toe in the water. then i met a guy from the lifestyle, and honestly, i hung around because the sex that he proposed sounded interesting and i'm highly sexual. that's not his fault. sex was the minor part of all that he talked to me about, but it was what i latched on to. mine was not an elevated or pristine motivation, but he didn't settle for me pigeon-holing him or the lifestyle, and i've expanded my understanding very rapidly since then. but since i probably wouldn't have hung around without his carrot dangling in front of me, i feel like the heavily sexual initial appeal is not something to worry about. we pick up people in Starbucks for the same reason really, because their asses look good in jeans or whatever. but i have not seen one purely sexual motivation on the comm that has lasted above more than a handful of impatient exchanges. so i think, the sex only people weed themselves out from sheer impatience. perhaps one does have to deal with the inconvenience of getting dumb emails, but that's no worse than getting lame pick-up lines while you wait for your caramel macchiato, imo. :)

(in reply to LunarBull)

Post #: 38

RE: Submission vs kinky vanilla sex - 3/16/2010 3:01:55 AM

CelticPrince

Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

It's still about control, though; it's just that she's actually controlling him via his dick. If he wants to call himself a Dom, he should work on controlling his own appendage instead of the tail wagging him.

Focus,
200 % agreement there; however I think what your seeing at munches are simply horndogs looking for someplace to put it.

CP

(in reply to Focus50)

Post #: 39

RE: Submission vs kinky vanilla sex - 3/16/2010 3:04:41 AM

CelticPrince

Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline

quote:

The clash of expectations is pretty common with people who rush in with no boundaries.

monger,

or experience I might add.

CP

(in reply to Smutmonger)

Post #: 40

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