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Life in prison is far more inexpensive.

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ORIGINAL: barelynangel
My question however is this -- who are the peers of a 12 year old boy?

angel

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ORIGINAL: barelynangel

boijen, you speak of our justice system, you do realize that you ironically are thumbing your nose at the very essence of what our justice systems is founded upon while trying to use the same system to support how you are viewing this --- its called -- wait for it -- innocent until PROVEN guilty.

That system is not based on speculation and random information and bits and pieces thrown to the media to determine guilt but instead is dealt with teh concept of GUILT BEING PROVEN. Do you at all understand that concept.

So you really may want to understand the justice system you proclaim to shrug and say well i am just working within the confines of our justice system because in the end what you are doing is the exact opposite of what our system is based upon -- you are deeming him guilty without any proof, only abstract information of media coverage.

angel

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One, the kid had to take a junior hunter's safety course ever before he could get a hunting license at all.  Two, it means that he knew that guns kill.
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I had free access to guns at his age, roamed the hills and fields around my grandparent's home, killing various small game. My brother and cousins and I all well knew exactly what guns did. We just never decided to murder anyone. You;re exactly right.

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ORIGINAL: truckinslave

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Life in prison is far more inexpensive.

That could. obviously, and in my opinion should, change.

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Should only those who are over 65 sit on a jury if the defendant is a senior citizen? Should only female jurors be accepted if the defendant is female? What about people of color or other nationalities?

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China has one of the lowest rates of crime in the whole world and spends almost the least amount of money on their justice system. Something must be working over there.

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

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China has one of the lowest rates of crime in the whole world and spends almost the least amount of money on their justice system. Something must be working over there.

Yes. No human rights.

Comrade Jen, I'll stick with the Constitution, thanks.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I woke up to this story on the news... and didnt know which way to think. Guilty? possibly. The father maintains his son's innocence. However, they have the murder weapon, the son's rifle the father gave him as a present. The fiance is dead, along with the unborn baby, who was to be named after the father.

Its a chilling story, leaving just one question in mind. Is this child guilty of the crime of murder in the first degree at 12 years old? Pennsylvania believes so, according to the state law... and only the Judge can say differently and send it to juvenile court. He is facing either life in prison (the Supreme Court in 2005 made it unlawful to give children the death penalty) or juvenile detention until 21, with no criminal record.

I have mixed feelings on this. If he committed the crime, what do you think should happen to him?

The story is here

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ORIGINAL: BoiJen

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

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ORIGINAL: BoiJen

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I feel a little nauseated reading her....and I do not mean that in a metaphorical way, I mean I feel sick inside thinking that someone could advocate for the state murdering children because it costs money to incarcerate them.... just boggles

I feel the same way about adults who commit murder. Such violent crimes should not be rewarded with free food and shelter for the rest of one's own life.

We aren't talking about adults here, we are talking about a 12 year old. You claim to want to be a psychologist, tell me about the psychology of children at different ages... tell me about their ability to discern truth from lies, real verses imaged, action and consequences... etc.. since you are this psych person, tell me if you know the diff between a 12 year old brain and a 25 year old brain.... (not that the 12 year old in this case is actually even 12 mentally speaking, he could be younger developmentally for all we know)

Actually I do. Frontline highlighted the study that is often cited in brain development cases. The scientific problems, acknowledged by the study's originator exist in that the actual brain development was studied on cadavers who's medical history was unknown...only their age.


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/teenbrain/work/adolescent.html

I don't believe there is significant evidence to push off the responsibility of these kinds of actions solely on brain development. There's outside factors as well as inside ones. If this is a brain development issue, there's no guarantee that the boy's brain will develop ever to understand the big problem with his actions. If it's an environmental (parenting) issue, his formative years are coming to a close and it's gonna be a bitch to untrain him (and as stated earlier, it still leaves the time bomb in the boy's head waiting to be triggered). If it's a chemical issue, then it's incredibly likely he's shown signs of violent behavior that's not been uncovered yet...dead cats or birds, aggressive behavior toward other children....hell, it's already been put out there that he was aggressive toward the victim repeatedly.

These are my feelings based upon the research readily available on brain development.

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ORIGINAL: Brain

I say he is guilty and I have no sympathy whatsoever for the father. People that demand the right to have guns need to accept the consequences good or bad.  This is why it is bad policy giving people the right to have guns they don't need.  Some people learn the easy way and some people have to learn the hard way.

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ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I woke up to this story on the news... and didnt know which way to think. Guilty? possibly. The father maintains his son's innocence. However, they have the murder weapon, the son's rifle the father gave him as a present. The fiance is dead, along with the unborn baby, who was to be named after the father.

Its a chilling story, leaving just one question in mind. Is this child guilty of the crime of murder in the first degree at 12 years old? Pennsylvania believes so, according to the state law... and only the Judge can say differently and send it to juvenile court. He is facing either life in prison (the Supreme Court in 2005 made it unlawful to give children the death penalty) or juvenile detention until 21, with no criminal record.

I have mixed feelings on this. If he committed the crime, what do you think should happen to him?

The story is here

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ORIGINAL: BoiJen

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
Two points.

First, this comes down to whether you want to live in a country with a criminal justice system or one with summary execution without trial.

Second, you'll find the economic argument doesn't hold up. We could save a fortune by substituting life in prison for the death penalty. It's far, far more inexpensive. Check it out.

And yes, we should do that for any age.

What say we have the trial first.

If the boy is innocent, for his sake, I hope he's found that way and has all the mental health treatment for having been through this issue that he needs. If he's guilty and found as such, may he rot in hell.

In such a case though, I doubt he'll find a trial and jury of his peers.

I love this justice system because it is a justice system. And I am allowed to have my opinion of the case give the information readily available. There's a reason (beyond not being in the state) that I would not be selected for the jury and would immediately make where I stand known because of that. I would not be a good candidate for any murder or rape and mutilation trial because of my own feelings. I know this.

And thank God and this country's justice system for that. Just because I feel a certain way about this case doesn't mean that I don't think the kid should get a fair trial in court.

I think far too few people understand a situation when someone feels a certain way about the information given and the over all process of understanding and judging that situation. I feel a certain way about this case...I also think the justice system, while flawed, is the best chance of catching the criminal in this case.

No matter what, I still wouldn't want anyone in that family living near me.

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ORIGINAL: BoiJen

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I feel a little nauseated reading her....and I do not mean that in a metaphorical way, I mean I feel sick inside thinking that someone could advocate for the state murdering children because it costs money to incarcerate them.... just boggles

I feel the same way about adults who commit murder. Such violent crimes should not be rewarded with free food and shelter for the rest of one's own life.

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ORIGINAL: Level

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

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China has one of the lowest rates of crime in the whole world and spends almost the least amount of money on their justice system. Something must be working over there.

Yes. No human rights.

Comrade Jen, I'll stick with the Constitution, thanks.

Yeah, it doesn't cost much to kick some peasant's door down, drag their hapless ass to a shithole, and lock them up, feed them gruel, and basically shit upon the notion of a fair trial.

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ORIGINAL: barelynangel

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Should only those who are over 65 sit on a jury if the defendant is a senior citizen? Should only female jurors be accepted if the defendant is female? What about people of color or other nationalities?

LP, at least a person who is over 65 has a possibility that there will be senior citizens on the jury. This boy will not have any possibility that any of his peers will judge him.

LP, i am curious, so how would he NOT be prosecuted prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law if he was prosecuted as a juvenile within the concept of our laws. The fullest extent of the law for whom? An adult or a child?

angel

I have no sympathy for this boy if he is prosecuted he is prosecuted, my concern is based upon the gray areas wherein people want to assauge their guilt by making exceptions to the law to make it seem easier to prosecute him as an adult. I don't think they should. IF they choose to see this child as an adult to prosecute him, I fully believe if he is prosecuted as an adult, the death penalty should be weighed just as it would for an over 18 year old in the same situation. If under the law he is not found to be able to be tried as an adult or they are unable to put the death penalty on the table cause well he is just a kid, i believe he should be prosecuted as any juvenile offender is.