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RE: Capitalism Is Dying a Natural Death - 3/17/2010 4:08:04 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I think that subfever and Brain would both be happy in Cuba. There is no capitalisim there, the government makes all of the decisions for you and according to Michael Moore, they have better health care facilities than here in the states..I think you should move there.

There's a lot of people besides Michael "factchecker" Moore who say that, sadly. It's pretty well documented.
(Mind you, Mexico has a better healthcare system than the States as well, doesn't it?)


Uhhh, no, neither one does.

Sorry, more of the population of Cuba and Mexico can get medical care than they could in America. That makes both better systems. It isn't like you have to pay a hundred dollars for a box of blood glucose sensor test strips in either country, after all.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Capitalism Is Dying a Natural Death - 3/17/2010 4:09:32 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I think that subfever and Brain would both be happy in Cuba. There is no capitalisim there, the government makes all of the decisions for you and according to Michael Moore, they have better health care facilities than here in the states..I think you should move there.

There's a lot of people besides Michael "factchecker" Moore who say that, sadly. It's pretty well documented.
(Mind you, Mexico has a better healthcare system than the States as well, doesn't it?)


Uhhh, no, neither one does.

Sorry, more of the population of Cuba and Mexico can get medical care than they could in America. That makes both better systems. It isn't like you have to pay a hundred dollars for a box of blood glucose sensor test strips in either country, after all.


No, that isnt what makes a system better. Its both quality and availability.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Capitalism Is Dying a Natural Death - 3/17/2010 4:11:46 PM   
Moonhead


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Status: offline 		So healthcare in America is available to people who can't pay for it or have spent years ploughing money into insurance policies that are refusing to pay for it when they actually fall ill?
Is the weather nice on Bizarro world?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Capitalism Is Dying a Natural Death - 3/17/2010 4:14:11 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

So healthcare in America is available to people who can't pay for it or have spent years ploughing money into insurance policies that are refusing to pay for it when they actually fall ill?
Is the weather nice on Bizarro world?


If its covered under the contract then payment will be made. The weather is beautiful when the market is relatively free.

(in reply to Moonhead)
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RE: Capitalism Is Dying a Natural Death - 3/17/2010 4:15:11 PM   
servantforuse


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Status: offline 		You can't even drink the water in Mexico without getting sick. If you want to go there for surgery, go right ahead.

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Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Capitalism Is Dying a Natural Death - 3/17/2010 4:21:04 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

So healthcare in America is available to people who can't pay for it or have spent years ploughing money into insurance policies that are refusing to pay for it when they actually fall ill?
Is the weather nice on Bizarro world?


If its covered under the contract then payment will be made. The weather is beautiful when the market is relatively free.

And the amount of stuff that isn't covered under the contract only becomes apparent far too late. A spiffy system for the insurers, but one that's rather rough on an aging population.

As for Mexico, at least you can actually get surgery there if you need it. I wouldn't worry about the water either: they have these things called autoclaves?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Capitalism Is Dying a Natural Death - 3/17/2010 4:22:44 PM   
domiguy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

You can't even drink the water in Mexico without getting sick. If you want to go there for surgery, go right ahead.


Is this you being happy? Who hurt you?

I don't see the Mexicans getting sick from the water.

_____________________________



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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Capitalism Is Dying a Natural Death - 3/17/2010 4:28:59 PM   
subfever


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quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever
And leave all my loved ones behind? Nah... it's better to deprogram the years of indoctrination of the people right here, and start a grassroots effort towards a indoctrinated to catpitalism.  As the Beloved Leader guy in the video said, our current resource-based economy.


Having watched the 'orientation' from the other thread, I don't see that people are system places value based on scarcity.  But that is not indoctrination.  As anyone trying to lose weight knows, the body, our very DNA assumes starvation is around every corner.  The scarcity=value thing is part of our very core as animals.  So it might take getting the correctly genetically-engineered human to make it all work.  That would be the only way to really be sure people are properly deprogrammed.  Just my perspective.


I believe what the orientation says about scarcity, is that it's intentional, and part of the foundation of our economy. It also says that we have the technology today to eliminate scarcity altogether.

I didn't mean to suggest that our indoctrination has been directly or exclusively linked to scarcity. Yes, scarcity has always been in nature, and therefore programmed into all living things. But we now have the technology to move man past this... if we remove the profit/greed motive, and install a resource-based economy.

When 2% of the population own 50% of the wealth... we will certainly continue to have scarcity. When money is created as credit/debt, we will continue to have scarcity... people competing against each other to extract enough money out of the system to make ends meet.

We are increasingly polluting the planet. The waste man produces is almost beyond imaginable. Thousands of people starve to death every day. War is ever prevalent.

What about our children? What are we leaving for them and their children? Should we mortgage their future to sustain our rabid self-indulgence for another decade or two?

< Message edited by subfever -- 3/17/2010 4:29:46 PM >

(in reply to eyesopened)
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RE: Capitalism Is Dying a Natural Death - 3/17/2010 4:31:08 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

I seem to recall reading somewhere that there was a difference between private free enterprise and capitalism, but I cant be entirely sure if there is what it was. The trick was to allow the former but prevent the latter as the former was good for everyone whilst the latter tended to get out of hand and be bad for most and excellent for only a very few who would inevitably over time come to destroy both the former and itself because its sole purpose was to increase itself.

E

Free enterprise and capitalism are two different endeavors one requiring or 'riding' on the other. Free enterprise is the meeting of demand for good and services with labor. Hopefully that creates a profit. (value added).

Capitalism is the creation of paper, that the capitalist trys to sell, essentially based on your labor. That doesn't create a profit but a commission based on a percentage of the return for the buyer who the relies upon your labor and the profits you create or from your salary making payments to make their paper good.

Labor IS capital. Without labor...you have no capital. All the 'capitalist' has is the paper he wants to turn into...your money.

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Capitalism Is Dying a Natural Death - 3/17/2010 4:39:13 PM   
subfever


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

I'm pretty sure there's a line something like that in The Hand That Feeds off the NIN album before last. I'm probably misremembering, though.
(edit: Bugger, beaten to the draw again...)




Hmm... I don't think I picked it up off a lyric, but I could be wrong.

Possible you picked it up quoted elsewhere though.  Reznor and NIN tend to be pretty quotable.
Theres some Romanian proverb about kissing the hand that you cannot bite?

Geeze my edits suck tonight.


Well, until something better comes along... we'll just say that I coined the quote Kiss the hand that enslaves you. ... lol

(in reply to RCdc)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Capitalism Is Dying a Natural Death - 3/17/2010 4:41:55 PM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever


quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever


quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

I'm pretty sure there's a line something like that in The Hand That Feeds off the NIN album before last. I'm probably misremembering, though.
(edit: Bugger, beaten to the draw again...)




Hmm... I don't think I picked it up off a lyric, but I could be wrong.

Possible you picked it up quoted elsewhere though.  Reznor and NIN tend to be pretty quotable.
Theres some Romanian proverb about kissing the hand that you cannot bite?

Geeze my edits suck tonight.


Well, until something better comes along... we'll just say that I coined the quote Kiss the hand that enslaves you. ... lol

Get your arse over to wiki and set up a page crediting you with the line, I say. You'll be kicking yourself if somebody else beats you to it...

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to subfever)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Capitalism Is Dying a Natural Death - 3/17/2010 4:50:25 PM   
subfever


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quote:

Get your arse over to wiki and set up a page crediting you with the line, I say. You'll be kicking yourself if somebody else beats you to it...


LOL ... do you think they'd mind if I inserted a link to the orientation for a resource-based economy? ...

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Capitalism Is Dying a Natural Death - 3/17/2010 4:52:52 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

I cannot imagine a sadder world to live in where no matter how inventive, how innovative, how smart or how hard one worked, a person could have no more than anyone else. 


If in that world everyone had all that they wanted would that still sadden you?

(in reply to eyesopened)
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RE: Capitalism Is Dying a Natural Death - 3/17/2010 4:54:20 PM   
thompsonx


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

If you think it is better in other countries, why don't you just move there ? Cuba might suit you just fine.


What is it about Cuba that you find offensive?

(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Capitalism Is Dying a Natural Death - 3/17/2010 4:55:51 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		The fact that the lefties kicked the mob out and took over running the country themselves, I suspect.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Capitalism Is Dying a Natural Death - 3/17/2010 5:03:38 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

If you think it is better in other countries, why don't you just move there ? Cuba might suit you just fine.


What is it about Cuba that you find offensive?


You mean other than the poverty, corruption and human rights violations?

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Capitalism Is Dying a Natural Death - 3/17/2010 5:04:55 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

 
quote:

I cannot imagine a sadder world to live in where no matter how inventive, how innovative, how smart or how hard one worked, a person could have no more than anyone else. 


If in that world everyone had all that they wanted would that still sadden you?


Yup, because that could only be a world of mass hypnosis, and a person would be no better than a robot.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Capitalism Is Dying a Natural Death - 3/17/2010 5:08:32 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

If you think it is better in other countries, why don't you just move there ? Cuba might suit you just fine.


What is it about Cuba that you find offensive?


You mean other than the poverty, corruption and human rights violations?

So why do you have a problem with those in Cuba but not (say) Iraq or Afghanistan?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Capitalism Is Dying a Natural Death - 3/17/2010 5:10:08 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

If you think it is better in other countries, why don't you just move there ? Cuba might suit you just fine.


What is it about Cuba that you find offensive?


You mean other than the poverty, corruption and human rights violations?

Oh goody are you going to tell us about your last visit to Cuba?
How many times have you been?
Where did you stay?
Did you have any trouble getting a Visa?
Oh waite you have never been to Cuba and your only knowledge of Cuba is from people who hate the current government of Cuba.  You have a really sound bassis to make a decission.
Dang how do you do it?
Are you channeling Elian Gonzalez?

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Capitalism Is Dying a Natural Death - 3/17/2010 5:13:03 PM   
heartcream


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From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

 
quote:

I cannot imagine a sadder world to live in where no matter how inventive, how innovative, how smart or how hard one worked, a person could have no more than anyone else. 


If in that world everyone had all that they wanted would that still sadden you?


Yup, because that could only be a world of mass hypnosis, and a person would be no better than a robot.


Wow where is this logic?

If each and every human could have their heart's desire and be abundant, safe and sound, free to come and go as they wish, do as thye wish this is mass hypnosis? OOOooookay. A robot? I get everything I want out of life and I am a robot?

Maybe you have bad intent and are basically greedy needing to have more than ant other as though that would mean something about you?

_____________________________

"Exaggerate the essential, leave the obvious vague." Vincent Van Gogh

I'd Rather Be With You

Every single line means something.
Jean-Michel Basquiat



(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 60
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