InvisibleBlack
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quote:
ORIGINAL: subfever
Good grief... you want to know how to ensure that everyone on the planet can be provided with all they need, something that's never been achieved before, and I need to convince you to watch the video?
Sort of. I want you to prove to me that you're not a crackpot and that your system has some basis to it before I spent an hour and half watching a lecture. If you can't explain the basis of your "reosurce-based economic system" in a few paragraphs, I suspect it has no viability at all.
quote:
Sorry, I'm just not feeling that persuasive tonight. Suit yourself. I'm hitting the sack.
So it goes.
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ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Did you really expect to be confronted with a bumper sticker which would explane this rather sophisticated concept?
No. I expected a straightfoward explanation. I can explain the basics of capitalism or socialism in a few paragraphs. If this system is so byzantine and complex that it can only be understood at a basic level after an hour and a half explanation, it's either total BS or so complex as to be unworkable in the real world. I understood the basics of capitalism before I read Wealth of Nations. I understood the basics of Marxism before I read Das Kapital. I understood the basics of Nazism before I read Mein Kampf. Are you claiming it's really too much to ask that someone lay out the basics of their philosophy?
To me, saying "I can't be bothered, watch this movie instead" is a total cop out.
quote:
You remind me of a man who would like to learn to swim but refuses to go in the water.
How can you disagree with something you have not read or seen?
It depends on what you're proposing. If you tell me you want me to climb up on the roof and get in your anti-gravity saucer and go for a ride - I don't need to get into the saucer and have it fall off the roof to presume it won't work. Asking you exactly how your anti-gravity engine works before getting in isn't a big stretch.
Claiming that you've developed a system that is based on ensuring that all human wants and needs are met strikes me as being as based in reality as the anti-gravity saucer.
However, fortunately the Zeitgeist Movement has a website: http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?Itemid=50
Let's see what they have to say - brace yourself for the wall of text:
"The Zeitgeist Movement is the activist arm of The Venus Project , which constitutes the life long work of industrial designer and social engineer, Jacque Fresco."
""From Earth to Venus" will be a unique project which will allow for a virtual redesign of our planet. Imagine for a moment if we had the option of instantly implementing a global resource based economy without the establishment barriers... what if we could update our world technologically to present day knowledge- NOW. How would you do it? This presents a wonderful thought exercise and we hope 'engineers' and 'social planners' will participate in the exciting, theoretically idea. The Goal: Maximum Abundance through Sustainability; Peak efficiency. More on this soon"
"The Venus Project has a vision of what the future can be if we apply what we already know to achieve a sustainable world civilization. It calls for a scientific redesign of our culture..."
"Simply stated, a resource-based economy focuses on resources rather than money, and provides an equitable distribution thereof in a humane and efficient manner. It is a system in which goods and services are available without the use of money, credit, barter, debt, or servitude.
The first objective is to eliminate scarcity. A resource-based economy overcomes scarcity by using renewable sources of energy, plus computerized automated manufacturing and inventory. It would design safe energy-efficient cities with advanced transportation systems, and would provide universal health care and more relevant education.
The aim of this new social design is to encourage an incentive system based on human and environmental concerns, and to avoid the shallow and self-centered goals of individual wealth, property, and power. These new incentives would help people evolve self-fulfillment and creativity, both materially and spiritually."
"The Venus Project's aim is to surpass the need for the use of money. Police, prisons and the military would no longer be necessary when goods, services, healthcare, and education are available to all people. The Venus Project would replace politicians with a cybernated society in which all of the physical entities are managed and operated by computerized systems."
"We would surpass the need for human participation in the production of goods and services. There is no taxation or obligation of any kind. We advocate no government by human systems. They have always proved inadequate. Computerized systems and cybernetics would be applied to the social system and must comply with the carrying capacity of our global resources."
"As to the need for government, only during the transition from a monetary based society to a cybernated high-technological resource based economy of common heritage would it be necessary to utilize the services of systems analysts, engineers, computer programmers, etc. They will not dictate the policies or have any more advantage than other people. Their job will be to carry out the restoration of the environment to near natural conditions as possible on land and in the sea. They will also economically layout the most efficient way to manage transportation, agriculture, city planning, and production. This too is always in the process of modification and updating to fit the needs of an ever-changing civilization. There are no final frontiers."
"It is not human nature but rather human behavior that we have to be concerned with, and that can easily be changed by an appropriate and relevant education and environment, which coincides with the carrying capacity of the earth."
"I am not advocating that these older institutions be overthrown: it is just that they are becoming unworkable. Unfortunately, it will most likely take a social and economic breakdown to bring about the demise of the old system and its institutions. At this point the only significant social change will probably occur when a sufficient amount of people, through economic failure, lose confidence in their elected officials. The public will then demand other alternatives. While we would like to think that this could usher in a bright new chapter in the human drama, it is far more likely that the most probable course will be a form of dictatorship, perhaps even an American brand of fascism, ostensibly presented to the people as a way of protecting them from the products of their own inadequate culture.
However, it is not enough to point out the limiting factors that may threaten the survivability of all nations. The challenge all cultures now face in this technological age, some more than others is to provide a smooth transition towards the introduction of a new way of thinking about ourselves, the environment and the management of human affairs.
It is now mandatory that all nations engage in a joint venture, planning on a global scale for new alternatives with a relevant orientation toward social arrangements. This is the only option if we are to avoid the unavoidable decline of the civilized world. If humankind is to come together toward a mutual prosperity, universal access to resources is essential."
"It is not enough to advocate the cooperation of all nations. We need a global society based upon a practical blueprint acceptable to all of the world's people. We also need an international planning council capable of translating the blueprint and the advantages that would be gained by world unification."
"A high standard of living would mean that all members of society would have access to all of the necessities to sustain life - medical care, education, food, clothing, housing, entertainment, leisure time and more. Man-hours could be reduced considerably until completely eliminated. By eliminating planned obsolescence and the replication of the same products by many different manufactures and by surpassing the need for advertising, sales, lawyers, business personnel, bankers and all of the other non-productive profession we could easily provide many more goods and services to all people. Today's middle class lives better than all of the kings of the past. In a resource- based economy, when the main thrust and total aim of science and innovative technology are directed towards a higher standard of living for all, our life style could far surpass anything imagined today."
"When computers eventually have sensors extended into all areas of the physical and social complex, we will be able to achieve centralization of decision-making. In a global resource-based economy, decisions would not be based on local politics but on a holistic problem solving approach.
This centralized system could be connected to research labs and universities, with all data monitored and updated constantly. Most of the technology needed for such infrastructure management is currently available. The major difference between today's computer technology and the system we recommend is that our system extends its autonomic nervous system (environmental sensors) into all areas relevant to the social complex. It coordinates a balance between production and distribution, and operates to maintain a balanced-load economy. This technology of industrial electronic feedback can be applied to the entire global economy."
So, by my read, the idea is to unite all nations in a world government which will then re-educate everyone on the planet to agree with their vision of what our culture should be. This re-educated population will then develop the technology to produce everything that is ever needed by anyone and computer systems sophisticated enough to run the entire world without human intervention. They will then plant sensors everywhere possible and hook them into this centralized computer system so it knows how everything in the world is running. The government will then disband and the system designers will go off to do research and everything will just hum along is an automated happy Utopia.
See, that didn't take an hour and a half and I already know that it won't work, that I regard it as a great evil, and that I, for one, would do everything I could to stop it from ever happening - which pretty much means it could never happen because rebels like me would never fit in.
[Edited. Typos. You know how it goes.]
< Message edited by InvisibleBlack -- 3/18/2010 7:23:11 PM >
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Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that, I'll be over here, looking through your stuff.
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