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ORIGINAL: heartcream

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ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

 

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I cannot imagine a sadder world to live in where no matter how inventive, how innovative, how smart or how hard one worked, a person could have no more than anyone else. 

If in that world everyone had all that they wanted would that still sadden you?

Yup, because that could only be a world of mass hypnosis, and a person would be no better than a robot.

Wow where is this logic?

If each and every human could have their heart's desire and be abundant, safe and sound, free to come and go as they wish, do as thye wish this is mass hypnosis? OOOooookay. A robot? I get everything I want out of life and I am a robot?

Maybe you have bad intent and are basically greedy needing to have more than ant other as though that would mean something about you?

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

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If in that world everyone had all that they wanted would that still sadden you?

Yup, because that could only be a world of mass hypnosis, and a person would be no better than a robot.

So you are against everyone having all that they want are you against it for anyone?

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ORIGINAL: subfever

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ORIGINAL: heartcream

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ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

 

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I cannot imagine a sadder world to live in where no matter how inventive, how innovative, how smart or how hard one worked, a person could have no more than anyone else. 

If in that world everyone had all that they wanted would that still sadden you?

Yup, because that could only be a world of mass hypnosis, and a person would be no better than a robot.

Wow where is this logic?

If each and every human could have their heart's desire and be abundant, safe and sound, free to come and go as they wish, do as thye wish this is mass hypnosis? OOOooookay. A robot? I get everything I want out of life and I am a robot?

Maybe you have bad intent and are basically greedy needing to have more than ant other as though that would mean something about you?

I don't know about others but I see robots as the poor masses who go to work day in, day out, doing the same things over and over again... fight rush hour traffic both ways... come home tense and tired... all to extract enough money out the the system to make ends meet.

Those are freaking robots.

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Read the words. EVERYONE HAD ALL THEY WANTED. It cannot exist except in a Stepford world.

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

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Read the words. EVERYONE HAD ALL THEY WANTED. It cannot exist except in a Stepford world.

You know this because ???
Are you god?
You read it someplace?
Do you have the ability to speak "ex cathedra"?
No I think the concept just boggles your mind and rather than consider it you simply reject it out of hand.
I believe it was Dirty Harry who said "a man's got to know his limitations".  You are clearly on a first name bassis with yours!

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ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Unfortunately Willbeur is right. If everyone had the standard of living of the average westerner, we'd have enough resources to keep it up for a month at best.

E

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

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I cannot imagine a sadder world to live in where no matter how inventive, how innovative, how smart or how hard one worked, a person could have no more than anyone else. 

If in that world everyone had all that they wanted would that still sadden you?

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How exactly are you planning on ensuring that everyone can have all that they want? That's never been achieved by any society in history - what are you going to do differently to make this goal a reality?

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ORIGINAL: subfever
I don't know about others but I see robots as the poor masses who go to work day in, day out, doing the same things over and over again... fight rush hour traffic both ways... come home tense and tired... all to extract enough money out the the system to make ends meet.

Those are freaking robots.

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

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How exactly are you planning on ensuring that everyone can have all that they want? That's never been achieved by any society in history - what are you going to do differently to make this goal a reality?

The statement was a hypothetical...how you get there would be a rather interesting project, don't you think?
As for it never having happened in history I would have to differ with you on that point.
The society I am thinking of is rather small (about 40 to50 thousand total) and they live in a rather confined area about 30,000 sq mi.
What is interesting about them is that they are an essentially unchanged society for at least 6000 years.
They have no king,chief,headman,president,prime minister or what ever else you want to call "el jeffe"
Everyone has all that they want and they have life spans similar to advanced western cultures and their quality of life meets or exceeds ours on all meaningful measures.
No not one of them has a computer or a big screen TV or a car or a speed boat.  If possessions are the measure of ones happiness then that person is a relatively cheap date.
This society is the Mbuti whom we often call pygmies.  They are pre stone age in that they do not use even stone tools.  To top it off these little fuckers hunt elephants with nothing but a sharp stick.  Now that is bad ass.

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I am gonna call "bullshit" on this one.
I am not convinced that 3000 calories a day for everyone is not sustainable.
I am gonna need to see the math on this one.

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ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

That is certainly attainable Thompson

The problem is what is my motivation as a farmer to produce more than I need? What is my motivation as a ship owner to move that food where its needed? What is my motivation as a crane driver or lorry driver to move that container to the RDC? and so on.

and that is just the tip of an iceberg in this. Unless people have to do what they do now to get what they need by providing more in their work than merely their own needs, the whole system should break down.

3000 calories a day sounds a bit too much by the way, according to UK government regulations anyway.

E

I haven't a clue as to how to motivate someone to do something that they do not want to do if they have everything that they want.
But if I am the person with the power then I can create scarcity in any comodity and by maintaining that scarcity I can force anyone to do what I want in return for that scarce comodity. Isn't that pretty much what we have now?
As for where you would find workers when everyone has all they need/want we turn to all of the assholes who constantly post on these boards that the only things worth having are the things that you earn by the sweat of their brow.  That labor is its own reward.  They will be easy to spot they are the ones with no calouses on their hands.
Three thousand calories a day includes my mdr of chocolate

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ORIGINAL: InvisibleBlack

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ORIGINAL: thompsonx

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How exactly are you planning on ensuring that everyone can have all that they want? That's never been achieved by any society in history - what are you going to do differently to make this goal a reality?

The statement was a hypothetical...how you get there would be a rather interesting project, don't you think?
As for it never having happened in history I would have to differ with you on that point.
The society I am thinking of is rather small (about 40 to50 thousand total) and they live in a rather confined area about 30,000 sq mi.
What is interesting about them is that they are an essentially unchanged society for at least 6000 years.
They have no king,chief,headman,president,prime minister or what ever else you want to call "el jeffe"
Everyone has all that they want and they have life spans similar to advanced western cultures and their quality of life meets or exceeds ours on all meaningful measures.
No not one of them has a computer or a big screen TV or a car or a speed boat.  If possessions are the measure of ones happiness then that person is a relatively cheap date.
This society is the Mbuti whom we often call pygmies.  They are pre stone age in that they do not use even stone tools.  To top it off these little fuckers hunt elephants with nothing but a sharp stick.  Now that is bad ass.

How do you know that everyone in that society had everything that they wanted?

This cultural anthropologist named Colon Trunbull spent several years studying these people and these were his observations.

And, if they did, how are you going to project something that worked for 50,000 people living in an isolated area to a planet of 8 billion (or whatever the population is at now)?


I did mention, I am sure, that this was an isolated instance.  It is the only one of its sort that I have ever read of.  As I mentioned it is remarkable for its 6000 year history.
Is it scalable?  With the "me first materialism that characterizes our society I should think it's possibility would be in the relm of not likely.


Personally, I'm not interested in living at a pre-Stone Age level and hunting elephants with a stick. I have no interest in a future for my progency that would revolve around that culture.

I do not believe that I offered you any encouragement in that area.


These "everyone can have everything they want" political systems seem to be just pointless fantasies to me. Any idiot, hell, even *I* could design a functional system better than anything we have now if I could guarantee everyone could have everything they wanted.


I am sure you could

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I am gonna call "bullshit" on this one.
I am not convinced that 3000 calories a day for everyone is not sustainable.
I am gonna need to see the math on this one.

What if I want more than 3000 calories a day?

It was an arbitrary number that approximates the amout of calories a moderately active person would expend in a day.

What if I don't measure my satisfaction in life by my caloric intake?
Well that was pretty much my point.  That one could measure ones satisfaction with life by the yardstick that best suits them.

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ORIGINAL: karina18

Funny thing, we haven't had a free market since 1929.  We are defined as a "mixed market".  Blame all you want on capitalism, just remember all levels of government consumes over 40% of GDP.  Perhaps some of the economic problems stem from bad government?

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ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Indeed Thompson - that is the inevitable outcome in the wide and unfair disparities I mentioned arising from the system that relies on their presence.

We could reset tomorrow; dole out everything equally to the several billion on the planet as of today. Disparities would begin to show within a month I venture, and by a year we'd once again have a wealth gap emerging between some and the majority.

E