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RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/19/2010 8:41:11 PM   
mcbride


Posts: 333
Joined: 1/14/2005
Status: offline 		The protestor in the wheelchair is Robert A. Letcher, a former nuclear engineer with a doctorate from Cornell University, and is indeed a Parkinson's patient.   

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RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/19/2010 8:50:24 PM   
subfever


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Status: offline 		Using FR

I wonder what percentage of all those people on the street:

Know everything in that health bill.

Trust the politicians.

Trust the media.

Believe that the bill will actually serve the people more than it will serve the corporations.

Are merely believing what they want to believe.

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RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/19/2010 8:50:31 PM   
mcbride


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Hmm.  This is odd. I see a guy in a wheelchair at a rally, and Sanity sees "far left insanity ramping up because they can clearly see their power slipping away due to the laughable incompetence of their "leaders" in Washington."

Now, Sanity, in your video, are there apoplectic guys shouting in the face of the wheelchair-bound far lefty?

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RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/19/2010 8:53:21 PM   
Sanity


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If you can't be passionate when discussing issues that are dear to you then whats the point. Those people were excited about something but being excited is hardly a crime, no matter how much you will it to be so, and neither is it violence. They were getting a little carried away, sure. But people do that.


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

When I watched that video what I noted was a lack of violence


Verbal violence is violence. I realise this is a snippet but I'm not convinced it is an isolated case.

- LA


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RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/19/2010 8:54:33 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

Using FR

I wonder what percentage of all those people on the street:

Know everything in that health bill.

Trust the politicians.

Trust the media.

Believe that the bill will actually serve the people more than it will serve the corporations.

Are merely believing what they want to believe.


Well first of all, does anyone in the US trust politicians anymore? I think this is one of the core problems that is driving the fear that is manifesting itself in this video.

For the record, I never wanted to turn this into a left/right debate. It was more a comment on how the fear caused by all the instability is tearing what once was a beautiful nation apart.

- LA

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RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/19/2010 8:56:41 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


If you can't be passionate when discussing issues that are dear to you then whats the point. Those people were excited about something but being excited is hardly a crime, no matter how much you will it to be so, and neither is it violence. They were getting a little carried away, sure. But people do that.


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

When I watched that video what I noted was a lack of violence


Verbal violence is violence. I realise this is a snippet but I'm not convinced it is an isolated case.

- LA



Oh believe me, I am passionately debating this issue but my behaviour is not violent nor is it verbally violent. That was more than carried away. And if that is what is acceptable as carried away in the US today, then the problem is worse than I thought.

- LA

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RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/19/2010 8:59:59 PM   
Lockit


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Status: offline 		If you were to look at me, you would not know I was ill unless I was using a cane... about once a year or when shopping, a ridem cart because I am not using any pain medication and walking that far would put me down for weeks of torture. My son looks like a teen who might be slow or mentally deficient.

My son was an oil rigger. Had he gotten the medical help he needed, with insurance the hospital didn't know about, he would still be working. They neglected him. We couldn't sue the hospital for their part in his brain damage because of medical malpractice caps and no lawyer would take a case that serious and costly. No money in it. He gets disability. I have my own private income that doesn't come from the tax payers.

We went to a store and were waiting in a very long line. I was hurting badly. I left my son in line and went to get a ridem mobile because a man was leaving. A group of young adults came in and pushed my son away. He was afraid. He doesn't talk. I got back and would have let it slide until one man said he didn't say it was his place and he moved away. So he lost his place. I then got mad and didn't care how many of them there were and how bad they would kick my ass... no one was treating my son that way.

I said because of your attitude, you will not take our spot and that is that. The group started saying things to me and I just sat there and edged my way through as another woman stated clearly that they were in the wrong and insisted I go before her. These people were ready for a war when I rode up because that lady had told them my son was there first.

People do treat the disabled poorly quite often. What? Do they just want us to off ourselves? Or would they like the pleasure of being the one to do it? Don't think I haven't thought of it though. I mean... what can we do to help ourselves? It's like my brother told me, not knowing I had my own income. You are just a drain on society. You tell me... could you off me?


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RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/19/2010 9:03:14 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

Where is the compassion? Is this what fear and strife has turned a nation into?


I think an answer of sorts may lie in Jesus' parable of the laborers in the vineyard:

Matthew 20:1-16 (King James Version)

1For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.

2And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard.

3And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,

4And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way.

5Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise.

6And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle?

7They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive.

8So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first.

9And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.

10But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.

11And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house,

12Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.

13But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny?

14Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.

15Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?

16So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

By paying the workers the same wage for different work, the vineyard owner strikes at things humans seem to need, deeply, to believe: that we deserve all that we have, that we've earned it. Few of us, I think, care to confront the extent to which we've benefited from accidents of birth, familial support, economic structures, and plain old luck.

Like the vineyard owner, a social welfare system can threaten those same beliefs. If we recognize that that some people may be have-nots due to circumstances, we're also saying that some of the haves may not be as worthy or self-made as they like to imagine. I think that's a bitter pill for many folks to swallow, and the bitterness comes out in confrontations like this one.



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it's never enough to keep up.

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RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/19/2010 9:04:15 PM   
subfever


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quote:

Well first of all, does anyone in the US trust politicians anymore?


I can't say for sure, but I suspect that those who are rallying for the bill believe the Dems, and those who rally against it believe the Repubs.

Those at the top have the little guys pitted against each other once again, and yet it's probable that most of those who are fighting don't even really know what's in that bill.

One thing we do know is that the ugliness of the IGMFY's has become more apparent lately.

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RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/19/2010 9:04:57 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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I wasn't referring to your poor dear tear-jerker of a helpless wheelchair bound leftist (was he deliberately egging them on for the sake of the camera I wonder?)

I was referring to Panda's post, quoted below, and all the Obama faithful who are freaking out as they watch helplessly while Pelosi's and Reid's and Obama's slow motion train wreck vaporizes all the precious power they worked so hard to gain for so many years... as they watch their dear leader morphing unmistakably into the very image of George W. Bush...


quote:

ORIGINAL: mcbride


Hmm.  This is odd. I see a guy in a wheelchair at a rally, and Sanity sees "far left insanity ramping up because they can clearly see their power slipping away due to the laughable incompetence of their "leaders" in Washington."

Now, Sanity, in your video, are there apoplectic guys shouting in the face of the wheelchair-bound far lefty?



quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

Well... in a word, yes. Fear and hatred. Hatred of anything different, and fear that someone somewhere who sees the world differently will want something of theirs. This is America today, and this video is a sickeningly succinct example of how the health care debate of this past year has so completely changed my view of America and Americans. It's like when you have a family member who's always been a little bit off and hard to get along with, and you never really cared all that much for him to begin with - and then one day at a family reunion  he gets blind drunk and you finally see him for the complete asshole he's really been all along.

On one level, you kind of knew it, because it was all there to see... but you didn't really see it all, because you just didn't want to see it all. But now you have no choice, because the drunken bastard is pawing your 12-year old sister right in front of your eyes. That's what you're seeing right now in America - the ugliest side of an already-ugly people, in their fullthroated, unashamed, xenophobic rage. And no matter how this turns out over the next 2 days, a lot of us will never be able to see the country the same way again. One way or another, people are finding out a lot about the country they're living in.







< Message edited by Sanity -- 3/19/2010 9:14:58 PM >

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RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/19/2010 9:06:43 PM   
LadyAngelika


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Status: offline 		Lockit. First off, that is a horrible story and I'm sorry you had to go through it.

The fact of the matter is that it is this living in fear that just push the everybody fending for themselves, not with my tax dollar and don't be stealing my resources mentality.

I definitely do not live in a perfect nation, nor does anyone. I have a feeling though, as Panda pointed out, that the current circumstances are bringing out the fear and the ugly in many.

- LA

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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/19/2010 9:11:05 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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I don't understand why you think this is only a US issue. People are the same all over the world, this is nothing new and I don't think the odds are that it will improve any as we go along. And yes, I got the distinct impression that you wanted to make this a Left / Right issue from the very beginning.

If I am wrong about that I apologize.


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RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/19/2010 9:14:10 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

By paying the workers the same wage for different work, the vineyard owner strikes at things humans seem to need, deeply, to believe: that we deserve all that we have, that we've earned it. Few of us, I think, care to confront the extent to which we've benefited from accidents of birth, familial support, economic structures, and plain old luck.

Like the vineyard owner, a social welfare system can threaten those same beliefs. If we recognize that that some people may be have-nots due to circumstances, we're also saying that some of the haves may not be as worthy or self-made as they like to imagine. I think that's a bitter pill for many folks to swallow, and the bitterness comes out in confrontations like this one.


What a socialist that Jesus was ;-)

You know, I have lived a very privileged life. I was born to stable parents who instilled me with the belief that I could be whatever I wanted to be. And I worked hard and so far, I've been very successful. That said, I realise just how absolutely fortunate I have been in my life and I know that I have had advantages others haven't. That is why I give back.

This is the first year since the age of 14 that I haven't done volunteer work (personal reasons but I'll get back to it). I make donations to causes I believe in. I don't complain about my tax money going to social programmes. I've actually given (not loaned, given) money to friends going through tough times. This is what living in a society is. I don't need Jesus telling me that. I'm an atheist. I just need to put myself in the shoes of the other and have empathy.

- LA

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RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/19/2010 9:14:12 PM   
mcbride


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Joined: 1/14/2005
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quote:

poor dear tear-jerker of a helpless wheelchair bound leftist
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

I wasn't referring to your poor dear tear-jerker of a helpless wheelchair bound leftist (was he deliberately egging them on for the sake of the camera I wonder?)



Ah. So, yes, you see a " poor dear tear-jerker of a helpless wheelchair bound leftist."

How do you know if he's helpless? And how do you know he's a leftist, hmm?

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RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/19/2010 9:16:34 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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I was being sarcastic, and you inferred that he was.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mcbride
Ah. So, yes, you see a " poor dear tear-jerker of a helpless wheelchair bound leftist."

How do you know if he's helpless? And how do you know he's a leftist, hmm?



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RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/19/2010 9:18:58 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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Joined: 1/26/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


I wasn't referring to your poor dear tear-jerker of a helpless wheelchair bound leftist (was he deliberately egging them on for the sake of the camera I wonder?)

I was referring to Panda's post, quoted below, and all the Obama faithful who are freaking out as they watch helplessly while Pelosi's and Reid's and Obama's slow motion train wreck vaporizes all the precious power they worked so hard to gain for so many years... as they watch their dear leader morphing unmistakably into the very image of George W. Bush...



What the fuck are you chattering about? Is there an English translation for this latest frothmouthed spew of babbling bullshit?

Or, failing that, a translation in any terrestrial language at all?


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In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


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RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/19/2010 9:22:17 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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You're always good for a laugh. I love you man, don't ever stop being you. You've got to promise me that!


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda
What the fuck are you chattering about? Is there an English translation for this latest frothmouthed spew of babbling bullshit?

Or, failing that, a translation in any terrestrial language at all?



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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/19/2010 9:22:18 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
I don't understand why you think this is only a US issue. People are the same all over the world, this is nothing new and I don't think the odds are that it will improve any as we go along.


It might be the media at play, I will consider this, but it does seem to be heightened lately. As subfever wrote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever
One thing we do know is that the ugliness of the IGMFY's has become more apparent lately.


And yes, I got the distinct impression that you wanted to make this a Left / Right issue from the very beginning.

If I am wrong about that I apologize.

I won't deny that I am a Liberal, which is much more to the left than your Democrats. I think what lead you to believe that I was making it a left/right issue is that the video shows the right being verbally violent to the left.

But the problem is larger than that. The division is really tearing your nation apart. You might not see it as you are in it, but from the outside, it is a scary thing to witness.

- LA

_____________________________

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RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/19/2010 9:23:27 PM   
mcbride


Posts: 333
Joined: 1/14/2005
Status: offline 		 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
I was being sarcastic, and you inferred that he was.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mcbride
Ah. So, yes, you see a " poor dear tear-jerker of a helpless wheelchair bound leftist."

How do you know if he's helpless? And how do you know he's a leftist, hmm?


Actually, no, I didn't. I only said I saw a guy in a wheelchair. So...you don't know if he's helpless, or you don't know he's a leftist?

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RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/19/2010 9:27:05 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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Read your own posts:

quote:

ORIGINAL: mcbride

...Now, Sanity, in your video, are there apoplectic guys shouting in the face of the wheelchair-bound far lefty?



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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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