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RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/20/2010 12:19:28 AM   
WyldHrt


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quote:

The writer seems to realize how awful it was: "I thought about people flaming me and how much I deserved it... I agree, I do deserve guilt. I totally agree."

If that had been posted here, it would have been seen as what it was. Self flagellation while seeking validation.
quote:

I read most of the replies, almost all chiding her...only saw three out of 95 replies that thought she did the right thing, (plus one who thought stopping for anyone on a country was a security risk)

How many of them cited the fact that there was a child involved? IIRC (it has been while), lots did.
quote:

and of course, it got lots of play at National Review Online and freerepublic, where it was given these keywords:  compassion; demgurl; du; haters; leftists; liberals; mentalillness; scumbags; skank
All of which proves Lady Angelica's point about lack of compassion.

As I said, I am not a political person and belong to no 'party'. I could care less if the thread was used by the other side. RML asked for an example, and I provided one. I could honestly care less how 'bad' she felt afterwards, because what she did was just shit. When you put a political party above compassion for a fellow human being who needs help, there is no excuse.




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RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/20/2010 12:25:11 AM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

I got shivers. Honestly.

Raw footage: Health care opponents and Parkinson's patient meet at rally. (Pardon the idiot advert first)
http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/multimedia/video/video.html?video=951077

Where is the compassion? Is this what fear and strife has turned a nation into?

In the woman's rights threads, we saw a few selfish individuals who said "not with my tax dollar".

"No more handouts. Go to Canada" Really. If not condoning the behaviour in that video makes me a socialist, then I'll wear the label with pride.

- LA


Hell, those guys did look like union members, Teamsters and the guy in the white shirt was probably their "B.A." business agent.
The Teamsters sure as HELL don't want this new healthcare bill, why would they, they have one of the *best* health plans in the country! You think they want to give that up? Would you? You think they want to be *taxed* on those benefits?
I don't know why Democrats say, "the Unions are with us on this!" That's pure B.S.!
The Unions will not be "getting" anything out of this!
Washington had better be careful, the Teamsters could bring this country to a screeching halt if they decided to "get sick for three or four days."
That said yes, that behavior was reprehensable! Whatever happened to having a peacefull demonstration and respecting differing opinions?
I think most people in the country realise that something needs to be done but most, I think 70%, are against "this" bill.

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RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/20/2010 12:39:28 AM   
WyldHrt


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quote:

I read most of the replies, almost all chiding her...only saw three out of 95 replies that thought she did the right thing, (plus one who thought stopping for anyone on a country was a security risk)

*sigh* You made me go and read it again... read quick, as this post may be deleted and get me a red ass from the mods. Note: the following are separate posts:
quote:

Next time, maybe pull over, offer help, and discuss frankly how wonderful it must feel that fellow Americans will pull over to help strangers, and how awful it is that the Bu$h (mis)Administration has left thousands to suffer and die in America. Keep talking loudly and hit as many points as you can. Either the Bu$hBot will learn something, or the Bu$hBot can tell you to leave and refuse your help. Either way, you win and have done the right thing.

quote:

LOL! Love it! Make her a captive audience for a Bush rant!

quote:

I wouldn't have stopped, either.

quote:

They're harsh people who careless about other people. Let them get some of what they love. What goes around comes around.

quote:

Tough call. Tell her to take the W sticker off and you'll gladly help

All of those were in the first 10 posts replying to the OP. I don't really feel the need to go on, but some of the later ones are just as nasty, and some even worse.


< Message edited by WyldHrt -- 3/20/2010 12:55:45 AM >

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RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/20/2010 12:54:05 AM   
mcbride


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Joined: 1/14/2005
Status: offline 		WyldHrt, I'm not defending the silly rhetoric. There were some who called it "understandable but wrong", but I only counted 3 of 95 who actually defended it as the right choice. Most acted like humans, thank God, and the rest can expect karma to bite them in the ass.

If your point is that it's inhumane to let partisan politics cause such awful behavior, we're agreed...and i think that's the point of the thread.

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RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/20/2010 1:09:15 AM   
WyldHrt


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quote:

If your point is that it's inhumane to let partisan politics cause such awful behavior, we're agreed...and i think that's the point of the thread.

That was and is my point. That said, please don't pad the statistics. Many of those posts didn't state one way or the other explicitly, just told 'lovely' stories or whatnot (I really liked the one who was in the midst of helping someone struggling with groceries until he spotted yet another republican bumper sticker) with no 'chiding' of her actions, and others were nutter right wingers trolling. Either way, that thread is a nice example of just how nasty the left can be when it comes to politics, just like the right.

See my previous post about extremes in either direction tending to be shit as human beings.




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Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/20/2010 1:19:19 AM   
mcbride


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Status: offline 		I won't pad the statistics if you won't pad the statistics. I don't have a horse in this race.

No one will shocked at the news that on line forums can bring out the worst in people. That said, the video posted by Lady Angelika showed what people are capable of in the real world.

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RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/20/2010 1:28:14 AM   
WyldHrt


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quote:

I won't pad the statistics if you won't pad the statistics. I don't have a horse in this race.

Nor do I, but I saw at least 16 posts by people indicating that they would do the same thing the OP did. For now, people can read the thread and decide for themselves.
quote:

No one will shocked at the news that on line forums can bring out the worst in people. That said, the video posted by Lady Angelika showed what people are capable of in the real world.

Quite true... but I'll bet someone else will come along with equally 'lovely' footage of those on the left. The point of the thread is that politics the way it stands is ripping the country apart. We have 2 sides, both more concerned about firing shitbombs at each other than acting like decent people working toward a common goal.

As I said about the forum OP, it disgusts me to see this.



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RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/20/2010 1:32:54 AM   
domroomiesneeded


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quote:

Where is the compassion?


Canada's govt run healthcare system shows compassion? WTH? Ten percent of the country forced - through taxation - to pay for a service they do not receive due to the greedy govt rationing services/equipment and the greedy union thugs striking at the drop of a dime is compassionate?

What about all the bankruptcies in Canada because of the lack of services in healthcare? The productivity lost because of people on year(s) long waiting lists? The people who suffer in excrutiating pain because of the gov rationing and long waiting lists? What about the people who die while on these waiting lists?

Canada's healthcare is many things, but compassionate is not one of them. You should know as that American actress died in Quebec while skiing because there was not one Medivac in the entire province. Even an American Obamunist couldn't believe that as he worked in that industry and said that the city of Cleveland had 3 Medivacs.

Do you think it is sheer coincidence that Canadians flock to the US for healthcare, while you never - or rarely - hear of Americans coming to Canada for healthcare?

quote:

If not condoning the behaviour in that video makes me a socialist, then I'll wear the label with pride.


I'm sure Tommy "sterilize them all" Douglas is proud to hear that.

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RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/20/2010 1:50:58 AM   
mcbride


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Status: offline 		Yes. People can read it and decide for themselves, and there will be lots of opinions.  There's plenty of rationalizing and  fence-sitting in there to be disgusted at, but lots of unambiguous criticism of what she did.

quote:

We have 2 sides, both more concerned about firing shitbombs at each other than acting like decent people working toward a common goal.


You have two sides, but a few are concerned with firing shitbombs at each other, and the others joined a team because they actually want to work toward a common goal. I have more respect for those folks, who roll up their sleeves and put up signs or act as poll captains to actually do something about what they believe is good for the country.

Some people are too principled to lower themselves into something as grubby as party politics and actually work for something, but gosh, they sound good talking about the issues, don't they?

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RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/20/2010 2:14:02 AM   
WyldHrt


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quote:

Some people are too principled to lower themselves into something as grubby as party politics and actually work for something, but gosh, they sound good talking about the issues, don't they?

If I didn't know better, I would think that was just a tad snarky. If it wasn't 2AM here, I might run with it.
That said, it is 2AM here, and I will catch the thread tomorrow.
ETA-
quote:

but a few are concerned with firing shitbombs at each other, and the others joined a team because they actually want to work toward a common goal.

Unless you mean the common goal of beating the crap out of the other side...

My apologies to LA for the direction this thread has taken. I only intended to post a requested example of 'unlovely' behaviour on the part of the left in the course of the discussion. Mea culpa.


< Message edited by WyldHrt -- 3/20/2010 2:20:57 AM >

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RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/20/2010 2:28:15 AM   
sirbates


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Status: offline 		Take a vote in any country that has government run healthcare. Ask the population if they would rather have their present healthcare system or what the US has now. Every single country will choose the government run system they have over the present US system.

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RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/20/2010 2:40:12 AM   
WyldHrt


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quote:

Take a vote in any country that has government run healthcare. Ask the population if they would rather have their present healthcare system or what the US has now. Every single country will choose the government run system they have over the present US system.

Post #68 doesn't seem to think so. Just sayin'.


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RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/20/2010 2:53:23 AM   
mcbride


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Holy cow, domroomiesneeded, it's a freaking tsunami of factual errors. It's hard to know where to start.

Can you cite any numbers at all on "all the bankruptcies in Canada because of the lack of services in healthcare?"   Tell me, is that more than in the US, where half of personal bankruptcies are due to unpaid, high medical bills? Is it close?

"Greedy union thugs striking at the drop of a dime"  in health care?  Who are they?

There are no waits for urgent or primary care in Canada: If you need immediate care, you get it. Period.  There are waits for most specialists’ care, and longer waits for elective surgery.  Is that a problem?  Sometimes, but Canada's health care outcomes remain better than the US, and Canadians get the care, without having to worry about money.

I know that Americans spend far more money, yet despite this have poorer health outcomes than Canadians. Canada also has a lower mortality rate. American infant mortality rates are 40 per cent higher

I know that Natasha Richardson refused an exam, and I know that in Montreal (where Richardson was taken), to quote Dr. Brett Taylor, a study found that "100 per cent of victims arrived by road ambulance; whereas in King County in Washington State, 15 per cent arrived by helicopter. But, Montreal's ambulance crews were on the scene sooner, spent less time there, and had shorter transport times. That's right, a U.S. system with dedicated air transport had transport times averaging 23 minutes, compared to Montreal which averaged 10."

I know that you're parroting Fox talking points when you claim that Canadians flock to the US for health care. It's an outright lie, actually. The last study of cross border patients, using US hospital records, found that " the hordes of people fleeing Canadian health care for treatment in the U.S. was actually an infinitesimal 0.046% over five years."

Where is the compassion? Not at your house, pal.

quote:

original: domroomiesneeded

Canada's govt run healthcare system shows compassion? WTH? Ten percent of the country forced - through taxation - to pay for a service they do not receive due to the greedy govt rationing services/equipment and the greedy union thugs striking at the drop of a dime is compassionate?

What about all the bankruptcies in Canada because of the lack of services in healthcare? The productivity lost because of people on year(s) long waiting lists? The people who suffer in excrutiating pain because of the gov rationing and long waiting lists? What about the people who die while on these waiting lists?

Canada's healthcare is many things, but compassionate is not one of them. You should know as that American actress died in Quebec while skiing because there was not one Medivac in the entire province. Even an American Obamunist couldn't believe that as he worked in that industry and said that the city of Cleveland had 3 Medivacs.

Do you think it is sheer coincidence that Canadians flock to the US for healthcare, while you never - or rarely - hear of Americans coming to Canada for healthcare?

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RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/20/2010 2:59:44 AM   
mcbride


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

quote:

ORIGINAL: mcbride
Some people are too principled to lower themselves into something as grubby as party politics and actually work for something, but gosh, they sound good talking about the issues, don't they?

If I didn't know better, I would think that was just a tad snarky.


Nah, not snark, but, admittedly, a pet peeve of mine. And not aimed at you because I have no idea how much political work you've done.  And thanks for posting that.

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RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/20/2010 3:20:34 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


You really believe that all Leftist protesters are perfectly kind and moderate and loving and compassionate towards those with whom they disagree?  And all Conservatives are horrid brutes?

Thanks for the laugh. Thats funny. 


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Is that one of those stories you tell yourself so that you can sleep at night?

- LA



Yes, actually I think she does. Along with a few others on the boards. That attitude is one of the biggest problems the US faces right now, in my opinion. And the thing that really makes me laugh, is the 2 or 3 people on CM that really hate the right and speak out against anyone who might be conservative are actually from Canada. Now I can understand being interested in people in another country, but to actively hate 1/2 it's population because they are on the conservative side is just wrong.

I wonder how much sleep she loses over the really nasty things that some people on the left do?


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RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/20/2010 4:01:41 AM   
cadenas


Posts: 517
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Status: offline 		On the off chance that this isn't snark...

quote:

ORIGINAL: domroomiesneeded
Canada's govt run healthcare system shows compassion? WTH? Ten percent of the country forced - through taxation - to pay for a service they do not receive due to the greedy govt rationing services/equipment and the greedy union thugs striking at the drop of a dime is compassionate?


Rationing? As in HMOs denying cancer treatments until it is too late, just so they won't have to pay for follow-up care? Oh wait, HMOs are a US thing.

How is this story from somebody who lived both in Minnesota and in Montreal? In Minnesota, waiting three months for X-rays and blood work! As soon as he went to Montreal, he was seen and diagnosed with non-hodgins Lymphoma, received a bone marrow transplant and survived.

quote:

ORIGINAL: domroomiesneeded
What about all the bankruptcies in Canada because of the lack of services in healthcare? The productivity lost because of people on year(s) long waiting lists? The people who suffer in excrutiating pain because of the gov rationing and long waiting lists? What about the people who die while on these waiting lists?


Ummm... What about the US productivity lost because people are too sick to work well, and can't afford treatment? What about Americans suffering in excruciating pain because they can't afford the root canal?

Are there really any Canadians dying while waiting for a breast enlargement? Only optional surgeries have waiting lists. And organ transplants in the USA and in Canada equally for a lack of organs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: domroomiesneeded
Canada's healthcare is many things, but compassionate is not one of them. You should know as that American actress died in Quebec while skiing because there was not one Medivac in the entire province. Even an American Obamunist couldn't believe that as he worked in that industry and said that the city of Cleveland had 3 Medivacs.


Major correction of the facts: A medivac helicopter was 15 minutes away in Montreal, operated by the company "Air Medic". On the other hand, Colorado's Breckenridge,Keystone, Copper and Beaver Creek don't have medivac helicopters. Major cities - whether Montreal or Cleveland - do have helicopters. Rural areas in the USA, including many ski resorts, often don't have helicopters, and sometimes only volunteer EMTs rather than professional crews. Natasha Richardson died because she declined to be taken to a hospital, against the professional advice.

The story about the air ambulance apparently originated with CNN's Sanjay Gupta, who later said "The health care teams there are among the best in the world, notably MNI, the Montreal Neurological Institute. There is a controversy that has been going on for some time about Air ambulances, but as far as I can tell, this is a problem isolated to an area of Quebec." Not even the whole province of Quebec. An AREA of Quebec (hardly surprising that Quebec is twice the size of Texas) - and not the ski resort.

quote:

ORIGINAL: domroomiesneeded
Do you think it is sheer coincidence that Canadians flock to the US for healthcare, while you never - or rarely - hear of Americans coming to Canada for healthcare?


Americans go to Canada (and Mexico) all the time for health care. In fact, part of the health care reform will formally permit importing medications from Canada (currently that is considered illegal drug smuggling) exactly for that reason.


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RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/20/2010 5:11:56 AM   
sirbates


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

quote:

Take a vote in any country that has government run healthcare. Ask the population if they would rather have their present healthcare system or what the US has now. Every single country will choose the government run system they have over the present US system.

Post #68 doesn't seem to think so. Just sayin'.



He did not say he would change to the present US healthcare system. Perhaps he could post how many times he or members of his family went to the US for medical treatment instead of getting it in Canada. Or if he is considering using the US based hospitals and medical care providers as for all healthcare needs for him and his family. I do not really want to start a war but a lot of information in his post was inaccurate. Very few Canadians seek healthcare in the US but to say they flock there is exaggeration. Only the very wealthy would even consider such a move. US hospitals accept Canadians with open arms as long as they have proof they can pay for it just as any other business would. The Canadian Healthcare system is not a business and so there are not lots of motivation for attracting patients from other countries since the system here is designed to function for the people of Canada and functions at or near capacity. . As for the actress she was British and unless he is the almighty he cannot say weather she would have survived had she been on a medivac helicopter or not. I

I am not saying there are no problems with the Canadian or any other government healthcare system. However most of the rest of the industrialized nations have adopted such a system and none, to my knowledge have gone back to a system that is like the present US model.

I have had experience in both the Canadian and US healthcare systems. About 10 years ago, my father had a severe stroke while in Florida. Like many he spent the winter months in the sunshine state where he had a second home.He was hospitalized initially for 3 weeks convalessed with 24/7 nursing care at home and was hospitalized 3 other times due to relapses and related problems each time lasted about a week. in 4 months we paid around $250,000 for his medical care . The hospital bills were at least 120 pages long and very detailed (every q-tip or tissue was noted) and there were many errors that we found (mostly duplications which added up to 4 or $5,000 which were corrected when it was shown to the hospital. When we were able to bring my father back the provincial healthcare system reimbursed about 2/3 of the $250,000 and covered all his medical care for the next 10 years including 3 week long hospital stays, his wheelchairs, most of his meds and several thousand dollars to convert a van to allow it to have wheelchair access. I will admit that the hospitals in the US were much newer and decorated attractively and the nurses and doctors had nicer uniforms and seemed much more cheerful than their counterparts here. There was no overcrowding and rooms were bigger. However as far as I am concerned the quality of care my father received as well as the attention he got from the medical professionals was as good in Canada (if not a bit better but that may just be perception). Of course the example is subjective except for the costs. We were able to afford the bills but how many people can afford $ 250, 000 and probably double it would have cost for the next 10 years?

I hate paying taxes as much as anyone and I pay more than most. There are a lot of things about the Canadian healthcare system that are a not perfect and it has its frustrations. Would I change to the US system? Absolutely not and neithert would anyone else who has government run healthcare.

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RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/20/2010 7:17:35 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

If it wasn't for the sign he was holding, I wouldn't haven't been able to tell who was supposed to be the guy with Parkinson's disease.

Parkinson's is a degenerative condition of the central nervous system. It's called a "movement disorder" because its most immediately noticable symptom is tremors. Parkinson's patients often have an unsteady gait, difficulty swallowing, and stiff and aching muscles. That guy in the video is holding his sign perfectly steady. His head is stable. His posture is stable. His balance is stable. I would never have recognized him as a Parkinson's patient.

But that said, even if he was a shill there remains the fact that the attitude of the people paying attention to him is nothing to be praised.

K.


Hi Master Kirata,

While it's true that the man does not show signs of having Parkinson's, there are medications which help control the tremors. I suspect that he was chosen as their target because he was an easy mark. I doubt they would have had the guts to confront someone who was standing, indeed it appears they didn't.

zeph


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RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/20/2010 7:21:04 AM   
Sanity


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When the time has arrived for me to argue on the behalf of your partisan views I will hold a press conference to announce it so that there will be no doubts, thornhappy. There will be banners and balloons, and cake.


quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

I was wondering if you asked these types of questions when you saw the "Acorn pimp" video?


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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/20/2010 7:37:04 AM   
Jeffff


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


That guy's lucky he wasn't a Conservative, and those weren't enraged leftists, especially union thugs - or he might not have lived.




That's just a dick thing to say

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