Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Where is the compassion?


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Where is the compassion? Page: <<   < prev  4 5 [6] 7 8   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/20/2010 9:35:32 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

Yeah, I hate it when the Government can't run an orginization.

You know, like the Army?

Jeff



Have you served, Jeff?  I ask because that's an awful example of gov't competence. 

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Jeffff)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/20/2010 9:38:03 AM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		What does any of that mean?

_____________________________

"If you don't live it, it won't come out your horn." Charlie Parker

(in reply to subrob1967)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/20/2010 9:39:25 AM   
hlen5


Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

Yeah, I hate it when the Government can't run an orginization.

You know, like the Army?

Jeff



Have you served, Jeff?  I ask because that's an awful example of gov't competence. 
I have served, and I do not agree that the military is an example of incompetence.  Have you served, Heretic?

_____________________________



My fave Thread: http://www.collarchat.com/m_2626198/mpage_1/tm.htm

One time "Phallus Expert Extraordinaire"

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/20/2010 9:42:37 AM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		Rich. are there any examples of government competence?

Private industry indeed makes money. But it also is largely responsible for the state of the economy today.

I don't know the answer, but I know it can't go on as it is. I also know shouting at people who disagree doesn't help. There is no victory through volume

_____________________________

"If you don't live it, it won't come out your horn." Charlie Parker

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/20/2010 9:47:08 AM   
hlen5


Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
Status: offline 		To respond to the topic of the thread...

I feel that people are so polarized in their position they can't even hear the other side. I think civil discourse is practically nonexistant. I have not read every page of the thread, {my apologies, LA :-)  }.

In my opinion crowding and yelling at someone in a wheelchair is not a great idea to get your point across. 

_____________________________



My fave Thread: http://www.collarchat.com/m_2626198/mpage_1/tm.htm

One time "Phallus Expert Extraordinaire"

(in reply to hlen5)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/20/2010 9:50:35 AM   
BoiJen


Posts: 2608
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Right.  Fraud, waste and abuse on a scale previously unimagined.  No competition to act as any sort of counterweight to it.  Said fraud then leads to onerous regulation, increasing costs and diminishing the efficiency and quality of care.

IF, and it is an enormous IF, we are going to turn healthcare into an entitlement, nationalization is the only sustainable way to do it.  I'm not convinced that the current symptoms are worse than such a cure.


Insurance companies are one of the very few "industries" that are exempt from the anit-trust laws of the U.S. They go pretty much unregulated by the government here while other producing companies suffer huge regulation of product standards within this country.

Do you think the problem faced by the majority of American's today from the health insurance companies would be there, if it weren't for these facts? Do you think that maybe these problems wouldn't be so bad if the insurance sector was forced to maintain a product standard and held to the same over all business standards that other businesses in the US were held to?


_____________________________


Clips of MsKitty doin' stuff to me. Support the fan club, buy a clip today.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/20/2010 10:10:36 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

The thing about the US is -- this too shall pass. The US has always been a country of volital emotions. And we do get past it and we do maintain a strong bond no matter what strife we encounter. Hell we have lived together for over 250 years, i think we are entitled to growing pains and disagreement and such with a major CHANGE in our country. The point is this is something utterly NEW to the US, and so yeah i would be disappointed if the extreme of emotions didn't come out of it. We are a passionate country.

I will be honest with you. I do hope it passes.

I'm not going to espouse fatalist viewpoints, but rather realistic ones. I think that one would be prudent to not be too nonchalant about your current situation. 250 years is not a very long time for a civilisation. Older civilisations have risen and fallen. The Obama administration is projecting that the deficit for the 2010 budget year will hit an all-time high of $1.56 trillion. That is trillion. Soon you'll be getting messages in your fortune cookies saying "time to pay up people!"

Passion and resilience will get you through a lot. But that is also a very American way of seeing the world. There are many passionate and resilient people around the world that were squashed. Not everything has a happy ending like in Hollywood.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/20/2010 10:16:10 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		To BoiJen, TheHeretic et al.:

While I see the merits in discussing the health bill that is currently under consideration in the US, can we please stick to the topic at hand which is the impact that the current division of political ideologies in the US is having on the level of compassion in individuals and perhaps discuss the merits (or lack their of) of the bill on one of the many threads that are running with this topic now please? It would be greatly appreciated.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to BoiJen)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/20/2010 10:17:59 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5
I have served, and I do not agree that the military is an example of incompetence.  Have you served, Heretic?



So you've served (and yes, I did), without being aware of the percentage of support personnel to combat troops?  Without seeing the levels of chickenshit and bureaucracy?  Completely unaware of the procurement process?  Never ran across rules set based on the politically correct theories of people with no conception of the facts on the ground?



_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to hlen5)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/20/2010 10:44:56 AM   
hlen5


Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5
I have served, and I do not agree that the military is an example of incompetence.  Have you served, Heretic?



So you've served (and yes, I did), without being aware of the percentage of support personnel to combat troops?  Without seeing the levels of chickenshit and bureaucracy?  Completely unaware of the procurement process?  Never ran across rules set based on the politically correct theories of people with no conception of the facts on the ground?




Let me amend - yes there is redundancy, bureaucracy and waste. Welcome to government. If the boots on the ground were listened to more often, the results would probably be quite different, I agree.

But the topic of this thread is the lack of compassion to see the other side of the debate whether it's in healthcare, politics or the video that was used to illustrate the topic. I agree with the OP that it's scary, if not alarming.

_____________________________



My fave Thread: http://www.collarchat.com/m_2626198/mpage_1/tm.htm

One time "Phallus Expert Extraordinaire"

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/20/2010 10:59:30 AM   
BoiJen


Posts: 2608
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

To BoiJen, TheHeretic et al.:

While I see the merits in discussing the health bill that is currently under consideration in the US, can we please stick to the topic at hand which is the impact that the current division of political ideologies in the US is having on the level of compassion in individuals and perhaps discuss the merits (or lack their of) of the bill on one of the many threads that are running with this topic now please? It would be greatly appreciated.

- LA


I think this comes down for me that passing a good health care reform bill is about compassion. It's compassion and understanding that every American deserves to be treated well and with respect in the care of their own health and especially in dealing with insurance companies, who seem to have no compassion at all when dealing with people's well-being.

That's how I see it.

Anyways, out for a while. Have a good weekend.

boi


_____________________________


Clips of MsKitty doin' stuff to me. Support the fan club, buy a clip today.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/20/2010 11:00:30 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
can we please stick to the topic at hand which is the impact that the current division of political ideologies in the US is having on the level of compassion in individuals


I thought I already answered you on that, LadyA.  When compassion becomes nothing but a club, when the victims of tragedy and circumstance become pawns and distractions to be manipulated before being cast aside, then it loses any power to persuade and inspires contempt for those who put their feelings above their intelligence.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/20/2010 11:18:07 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		I do appreciate you both clarifying your points BoiJen and TheHeretic. Thank you for relating your arguments back to the OP. It is appreciated. And it seems that you are both aiming for compassion and fairness, and I would hope that this is what your nation is all fighting for. Though it seems not everyone has the same definition of fair.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/20/2010 11:19:39 AM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5
I have served, and I do not agree that the military is an example of incompetence.  Have you served, Heretic?



So you've served (and yes, I did), without being aware of the percentage of support personnel to combat troops?  Without seeing the levels of chickenshit and bureaucracy?  Completely unaware of the procurement process?  Never ran across rules set based on the politically correct theories of people with no conception of the facts on the ground?





.......well, does that mean you favour privatisation of the US military? If you do, then i'd ask you to consider the potential effects on US foreign policy. If you don't, then all you're saying is that nothing is perfect, whether state or privately run, but that some things are best run by the state.
The latter point is the main point made by those of us who have lived or live under nationalised healthcare systems. It aint perfect, there is waste, but we willingly trade that against the problems faced by the current US system....those in need can be turned down for purely economic reasons. To some of us, this is a travesty.
Which brings us back to compassion. How many millions are not capable of accessing health care in the US under the current system? How many millions can not access simple drugs to alleviate their symptoms because of their economic circumstances, or because a privately run health system can't make a profit out of them? The OP points at individuals who are putting economics above compassion. Who see a man in need of health care and what's their first thought? Their wallets.
It is that attitude that is a symptom of a bigger problem in the US. Money is too important to some people. It over-rides their ability to see someone in need and want to help them. Suppose all working Americans were asked to pay $10 a year (two Mcdonalds happy meals) and, in return, no child would ever want for a medicine to treat a preventable disease. The problem is that. right now, a significent number of people would oppose it.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/20/2010 11:25:06 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

It is that attitude that is a symptom of a bigger problem in the US. Money is too important to some people. It over-rides their ability to see someone in need and want to help them. Suppose all working Americans were asked to pay $10 a year (two Mcdonalds happy meals) and, in return, no child would ever want for a medicine to treat a preventable disease. The problem is that. right now, a significent number of people would oppose it.


Not only would a significant number oppose it, but they would build up a conspiracy theory around it. This is what happens in a society so obviously barrelling down the track of fear.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/20/2010 11:46:28 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy
.......well, does that mean you favour privatisation of the US military?



Are you being deliberately ridiculous, Phil, or just trolling?  Of course not.  Gov't is the worst way to accomplish anything, but there are some things (such as national security) that only they can accomplish.  They are just wasteful and inefficient about it.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/20/2010 11:52:03 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

 Though it seems not everyone has the same definition of fair.




Very true, LadyA.  I'm not finding the video of the janitor mopping up around her while she screams and bleeds on an emergency room floor, but please tell where was the compassion for this woman in a government run hospital.



_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/20/2010 12:05:09 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

 Though it seems not everyone has the same definition of fair.




Very true, LadyA.  I'm not finding the video of the janitor mopping up around her while she screams and bleeds on an emergency room floor, but please tell where was the compassion for this woman in a government run hospital.



Many have horror stories, granted the one you pointed out was pretty extreme. I've found myself in a few emergency situations where I was the only one helping out individuals in very apparent need of help while others gawked around. I've been the one trying to turn an epileptic on their side and dial 911 because I asked 3 times and everyone was frozen. I retold in another thread how I was attacked on a busy intersection once and people walked circles around a man throwing me to the ground and grabbing my purse away from me.

I can also fill this thread up with examples of amazing compassion I have witnessed and experienced.

Incidents that involve lack of compassion will happen and hopefully they will be isolated and the exception and not the norm. When they start happening more and more, that is when there is cause for alarm.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/20/2010 12:51:56 PM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


Are you being deliberately ridiculous, Phil, or just trolling?  Of course not.  Gov't is the worst way to accomplish anything, but there are some things (such as national security) that only they can accomplish.  They are just wasteful and inefficient about it.


...well, that's my point really. The division on this issue is whether or not health care should be delivered to all ineffciently, or just to some efficiently. The former position posits compassion over cash, the latter cash over compassion.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Where is the compassion? - 3/20/2010 12:58:58 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Gov't is the worst way to accomplish anything, but there are some things (such as national security) that only they can accomplish.  They are just wasteful and inefficient about it.


The idea is to make stuff that's gonna be destroyed potentially. It's inherently wasteful.

The real problem is the national security argument---my district needs this, because it's essential for national security. People buy that argument, which is why goods from pens to peanuts are protected (literally).

To run such an enterprise as an efficient business, though, would indeed raise a number of national security issues. For starters, a competitive business would rely more heavily on international trade over domestic production.

A business would also cut unproductive endeavors.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 3/20/2010 1:00:44 PM >

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 120
Page:   <<   < prev  4 5 [6] 7 8   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> RE: Where is the compassion? Page: <<   < prev  4 5 [6] 7 8   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094