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RE: classroom discipline - 4/29/2010 9:00:45 PM

slvemike4u

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oooopps.

< Message edited by slvemike4u -- 4/29/2010 9:01:19 PM >

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RE: classroom discipline - 4/29/2010 9:07:23 PM

slvemike4u

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc

FR
I'm just confused how people on a forum that rave about consent think it's ok to abuse a child. Meh.
The moment you have to raise a hand, you have already lost the battle. All it matters is time.
But then, I don't have a punishment dynamic anyway. Master has authority. He doesn't have authority because he lashes out or gives me a 'clip round the ear' if I ever fell out of line. Authority doesn't have to exist with physical abuse, that's just fear, not authority.

the.dark.

I'm amazed at such a high percentage of fools could be produced by any arbitray collection of like number adults.
Imagine being silly enough to abdicate the parental right to choose how to discipline your offspring.To actualy advocate for the return of corporal punnishment in the school system!
Imagine that....

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Post #: 102

RE: classroom discipline - 4/30/2010 12:38:54 AM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc

As long as they don't employ people with mental illness and put them in the wrong positions, never.
Nottingham is a lovely place and Masters home town - I would hazzard it's not indictive of the school or the area, but the education authorities stupidity.

the.dark.

Are you saying the kids are totally innocent in this?

No, dark is saying the school placed the teacher in the wrong position. Whatever the kids may have done, the teacher is guilty of Grevious Bodily Harm ( GBH ) He should have been trained not to over react, especially to this degree. The fact he shouted "Die die die" indicates he had some sort of mental health problem.

Thank you politeone!

No boi, as Polite said, I don't say that they are blameless, but the education authority and the school itself should be held accountable.

You have a teacher who has been deemed to suffer from mental illness, who is described as being more passive and calm than he should be, being returned into a position of authority when he doesn't have any authority over his own life for one.

You then have a girl with learning and behaviour problems streamed into a class with no visable learning support.

And then you have the children who acted out. Children act out all the time - testing boundries and pushing. If a parent did what the teacher did to their own child, they would be condemned for child abuse, regardless of their mental state.

If the teacher had authority in the first place, that would not have happened, but he didn't because he wasn't in the mental state to issue it. The teachers, parents and pupil should be demanding why he was allowed into such a volitle area in his state in the first place.

the.dark.

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RE: classroom discipline - 4/30/2010 12:42:30 AM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
To actualy advocate for the return of corporal punnishment in the school system!
Imagine that....

Yes I have imagined it. And it isn't a nice dream.

the.dark.

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Post #: 104

RE: classroom discipline - 4/30/2010 2:35:04 AM

LadyEllen

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I wonder if there is any correlation between those who feel corporal punishment (or the threat thereof) to be effective and those who feel, in the adult world, that capital punishment (or the threat thereof) is effective?

I feel they are both are effective by way of threat - but only on those who were never likely to incur either anyway, whilst those who might incur either or both will be driven to do so, more often than not, because of their psychology and the particular societal forces that act on them.

That isnt to say they have no control over themselves or their lives, but rather that they have less control and fewer opportunities to effect positive choices - which brings us back to the whole education debate and the strong correlation between the status of one's parents and one's likely success first in education and later in life. Education is the one factor most likely to provide ability, to those who should otherwise have little, to exercise control and make effective, positive decisions to stay out of trouble and establish a better birth status to one's own offspring.

The question then is how to break that first barrier for kids from poorer backgrounds so that they value education and the improved life chances it can bring, so breaking indiscipline in schools and potential criminality there and later in life.

Parents who had equally poor starts in life and never broke that barrier, hence had poor educational outcomes and now a poor life are unlikely to be able to contribute a great deal to this aspirational endeavour, lacking the necessary positive experiences to inspire and lacking the social background to maintain over many years the necessary positive reinforcement.

E

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RE: classroom discipline - 4/30/2010 6:32:42 AM

RCdc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

I wonder if there is any correlation between those who feel corporal punishment (or the threat thereof) to be effective and those who feel, in the adult world, that capital punishment (or the threat thereof) is effective?

I feel the same way about (and lets put this in as a caveat seeing as where we are) non consensual corporal punishment (not to be confused with army repremands etc) and captial punishment. They are both incorrect and ineffective.

For capital punishment to work, there has to be the incentive to want to live. And people to who capital punishment exists for are less likely to care because they are working to an agenda. Rapists, persistant murder offenders, serial killers, crime bosses, religious fanatics, seekers of justice, suicide bombers and hijackers - these are the people on the dock for capital punishment. All of them have something to gain from executions - whether it's theirss or them inflicting the executions. You cannot reason with mental illness or religious fervour. You cannot argue with egos and you cannot satiate sexual hunger with reason.

People will willingly die for their God or Jealous or Power or the little voices in their heads. An eye for an eye isn't going to make that any less.

Besides if they worked, then wouldn't middle eastern countires be far safer? But I digress with my attempt at facisiousness.

the.dark.

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RE: classroom discipline - 4/30/2010 8:13:11 AM

Termyn8or

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FR

There is a close correlation between those who support capital and corporal punishment. Absolutley. I am one. Us nuts seem to believe that there are consequences for committing crimes. And for some unbeknownst reason, we believe that those consequences should fall on the perpetrator of those crimes.

Silly us.

T

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RE: classroom discipline - 4/30/2010 9:10:41 AM

LadyEllen

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I agree its personally satisfying T - but it doesnt do what it is said to do, that is the problem.

We've had countless debates about gaol (or jail if you prefer) - and all that really does is protect the public. It doesnt deter, it doesnt rehabilitate, it barely punishes - and that if the right person has been sentenced.

So what we have to look at in respect of classroom criminality is how to protect others by bringing about sanctions yes, but sanctions that do that whilst rehabilitating as best as we can - and for that latter we have to look at the origins and causes of criminal behaviour.

The latter may appear soft I agree, and certainly lacks that personal satisfaction angle, but the former can and should be as tough as it needs to be - I see no reason to allocate any sanction if that requirement is not met, which is why in respect of adult criminality I disagree with fixed term sentences - those who are a danger should be kept in custody until they no longer are by virtue of rehabilitation.

E

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RE: classroom discipline - 4/30/2010 11:52:34 AM

GoddessNatasha

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sorry...mistake

< Message edited by GoddessNatasha -- 4/30/2010 11:53:11 AM >

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Post #: 109