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RE: Draw Mohammed Day is near - 5/23/2010 4:18:07 PM

Elisabella

Posts: 3939
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

I feel sorry for you if you fail to see mocking someones religion as anything other than ignorance.

I've actually found that the more I know about a religion the easier it is to mock.

(in reply to Politesub53)

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Post #: 121

RE: Draw Mohammed Day is near - 5/23/2010 4:33:01 PM

SirPumpy

Posts: 219
Joined: 9/26/2007
From: Country Victoria, Orstraliya
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My invisible friend is better than YOUR invisible friend!

My invisible friend talks to me.

S/He tells me many things.

Kill the infidel unbeliever

Go door to door with my wife and small child to spread the word, usually at a socially unacceptable time of day.

Eat my flesh and drink my blood

Traumatise women and deny them their right to choose on the day they are most vulnerable creating mental anguish and trauma that will haunt them for their whole lives.

S/He also says I can do anything I like and with a simple act all will be forgiven

He says that I am special and one of the Chosen

He says go to war and slaughter, torture (and not in a nice way) the unbelievers in His name.

He offers me 72 Virgils if im a good boy (Git her dun)

He says that I will go to heaven by not smoking, drinking and being a good pious homophobic hypocrite and the rest of you ungodly mob will be stuck in purgatory.

He tells me to revere his Son, Heyzeus the magic carpenter who died for my sins.

Does any of this sound like the mutterings of someone who needs constant supervision in a locked ward?

Ah yup.

(in reply to seekingOwnertoo)

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Post #: 122

RE: Draw Mohammed Day is near - 5/23/2010 5:21:11 PM

Level

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Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

It almost makes me feel humble to see my thread bringing people together.

I should get extra virgins when I kick the bucket.

I just talked to Allah on facebook and he said you can have this one:

Call Allah back for me, and tell him I need one of the other gender.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to Elisabella)

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Post #: 123

RE: Draw Mohammed Day is near - 5/23/2010 5:43:46 PM

Elisabella

Posts: 3939
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Call Allah back for me, and tell him I need one of the other gender.

Unfortunately my Arabic is even worse than his English but I think he said that there's a queue, what with all the dead Muslims from Iraq and Afghanistan, but he'd be willing to bring a couple sluts up from hell to make the wait more pleasant.

At least I think he said sluts. It might have been goats...but I can't imagine what you'd do with a goat.

(in reply to Level)

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Post #: 124

RE: Draw Mohammed Day is near - 5/23/2010 7:22:24 PM

scrapdaddy

Posts: 32
Joined: 5/22/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: scrapdaddy

I refuse to see the drawings as ignorance because - now stay with me here - they aren't.

This isnt a fact though, it is like my own posts, an opinion. Yet somehow you saw that as apologistic.

I and others see these drawings as ignorance.

It is apologetic - it doesn't need to be factual. It shouldn't be a surprise that apologists have apologetic opinions.

However, it is a fact that the drawings are not example of nor born from ignorance. The content of these cartoons draws on a knowledge and understanding of the then current social context, the actions of extremists, the basics of the religion etc. I'm not sure how you're forming the opinion they are ignorant simply because you disagree with the motive or message.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
Many on these boards see all Muslims as terrorists, thats just racist bullshit.

I'm not 'many on these boards' , nor do I see "all Muslims as terrorists". Therefore this statement clearly doesn't apply to me.

Again, this is another example of repainting someone's statements as something they are categorically not. These pictures are not an attack on Islam, they are not a critique on the religion as a whole, or the majority of followers. They are valid, contemporary social commentary. Nor have any of my statements been addressed at the religion as a whole as has been repeatedly made clear.

In short, you appear to be coloring my statements (and Elisabella's) on the basis that someone, somewhere, said or is saying something discriminatory.

Oh, and 'Muslim' isn't a race - it's a religious affiliation. Even if I were anti-Muslim, which I am not, being so isn't racism anymore than being anti-Christian is. Just an FYI.

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Post #: 125

RE: Draw Mohammed Day is near - 5/23/2010 7:26:31 PM

scrapdaddy

Posts: 32
Joined: 5/22/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirPumpy

My invisible friend is better than YOUR invisible friend!

My invisible friend talks to me.

S/He tells me many things.

Kill the infidel unbeliever

Go door to door with my wife and small child to spread the word, usually at a socially unacceptable time of day.

Eat my flesh and drink my blood

Traumatise women and deny them their right to choose on the day they are most vulnerable creating mental anguish and trauma that will haunt them for their whole lives.

S/He also says I can do anything I like and with a simple act all will be forgiven

He says that I am special and one of the Chosen

He says go to war and slaughter, torture (and not in a nice way) the unbelievers in His name.

He offers me 72 Virgils if im a good boy (Git her dun)

He says that I will go to heaven by not smoking, drinking and being a good pious homophobic hypocrite and the rest of you ungodly mob will be stuck in purgatory.

He tells me to revere his Son, Heyzeus the magic carpenter who died for my sins.

Does any of this sound like the mutterings of someone who needs constant supervision in a locked ward?

Ah yup.

Careful, don't go drawing any pictures, it might be offensive.

(in reply to SirPumpy)

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Post #: 126

RE: Draw Mohammed Day is near - 5/23/2010 7:29:58 PM

scrapdaddy

Posts: 32
Joined: 5/22/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

They're not ignorant.

You might think they're rude, stupid, unnecessary, provocative, etc. but "ignorance" would imply that there's some factual information that the participants don't have.

I feel sorry for you if you fail to see mocking someones religion as anything other than ignorance.

Mate, I posted the definition of ignorance previously. I do not think that word means what you think it means.

For your benefit:

ig·no·rance [ig-ner-uhns] Show IPA
–noun
the state or fact of being ignorant; lack of knowledge, learning, information, etc.

Now, there are any number of other words you could use in association with the pictures. "Insightful", "Satirical", and "Critical" are three I would choose to start with.

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Post #: 127

RE: Draw Mohammed Day is near - 5/23/2010 7:41:17 PM

Elisabella

Posts: 3939
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Remember that old saying "You can cure ignorance but not stupidity" or something like that? I think a lot of people need to use that as a mnemonic because I'm really sick of people saying "That's ignorant" when they really mean they find it distasteful, stupid, rude, unproductive, whatever.

I mean really, it's like you want to call me stupid but don't have the nerve to do so.

I can't get too mad though, by using the word that way you display your ignorance of the meaning of the word ignorant, and my appreciation of absurdity outweighs any offense I'd take at being called stupid.

(in reply to scrapdaddy)

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Post #: 128

RE: Draw Mohammed Day is near - 5/23/2010 8:52:07 PM

Level

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Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Call Allah back for me, and tell him I need one of the other gender.

Unfortunately my Arabic is even worse than his English but I think he said that there's a queue, what with all the dead Muslims from Iraq and Afghanistan, but he'd be willing to bring a couple sluts up from hell to make the wait more pleasant.

At least I think he said sluts. It might have been goats...but I can't imagine what you'd do with a goat.

Holy TOS, Batman!

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to Elisabella)

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Post #: 129

RE: Draw Mohammed Day is near - 5/23/2010 8:53:10 PM

realcoolhand

Posts: 261
Joined: 3/22/2009
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Actually, ixna the "fair-enough"-a; just eat it.

(in reply to scrapdaddy)

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Post #: 130

RE: Draw Mohammed Day is near - 5/23/2010 10:50:05 PM

scrapdaddy

Posts: 32
Joined: 5/22/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: realcoolhand

Actually, ixna the "fair-enough"-a; just eat it.

Odd's fish m'lad, I'm yawning something chronic.

(In other words, you're fucking boring)

< Message edited by scrapdaddy -- 5/23/2010 11:25:14 PM >

(in reply to realcoolhand)

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Post #: 131

RE: Draw Mohammed Day is near - 5/24/2010 2:45:56 AM

Politesub53

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: scrapdaddy

Mate, I posted the definition of ignorance previously. I do not think that word means what you think it means.

For your benefit:

ig·no·rance [ig-ner-uhns] Show IPA
–noun
the state or fact of being ignorant; lack of knowledge, learning, information, etc.

Now, there are any number of other words you could use in association with the pictures. "Insightful", "Satirical", and "Critical" are three I would choose to start with.

Have you never heard of any other common uses of the word then ?
Discourteous seems to fit the bill, or do you just want to be an ass all day and play on semantics ?
ignorant

• adjective 1 lacking knowledge or awareness in general. 2 (often ignorant of) uninformed about or unaware of a specific subject or fact. 3 informal rude; discourteous.

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Post #: 132

RE: Draw Mohammed Day is near - 5/24/2010 2:50:30 AM

Politesub53

Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

Remember that old saying "You can cure ignorance but not stupidity" or something like that? I think a lot of people need to use that as a mnemonic because I'm really sick of people saying "That's ignorant" when they really mean they find it distasteful, stupid, rude, unproductive, whatever.

I mean really, it's like you want to call me stupid but don't have the nerve to do so.

I can't get too mad though, by using the word that way you display your ignorance of the meaning of the word ignorant, and my appreciation of absurdity outweighs any offense I'd take at being called stupid.

See my last post. Here in the UK ignorant/ignorance is commonly used as I have used it. If I wanted to call you stupid or even racist, I would have done so.

(in reply to Elisabella)

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Post #: 133

RE: Draw Mohammed Day is near - 5/24/2010 5:09:55 AM

Elisabella

Posts: 3939
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

See my last post. Here in the UK ignorant/ignorance is commonly used as I have used it. If I wanted to call you stupid or even racist, I would have done so.

Ah well if you were just calling me rude or discourteous I guess I can live with that. Laughing at religious extremists is sort of rude. But not as rude as threatening to kill people so I can't feel that bad over it.

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Post #: 134

RE: Draw Mohammed Day is near - 5/24/2010 7:47:54 AM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

Does any of this sound like the mutterings of someone who needs constant supervision in a locked ward?

Yes, it does. Thank god I don't attend a church that says that kind of bs. What church do you go to?

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert

This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

(in reply to SirPumpy)

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Post #: 135

RE: Draw Mohammed Day is near - 5/24/2010 3:31:11 PM

scrapdaddy

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Joined: 5/22/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Discourteous seems to fit the bill, or do you just want to be an ass all day and play on semantics ?
ignorant

• adjective 1 lacking knowledge or awareness in general. 2 (often ignorant of) uninformed about or unaware of a specific subject or fact. 3 informal rude; discourteous.

Using the most commonly understood and literal meaning of a word is hardly semantics, PS. Let me remind you of your own eloquent statement:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
My comments were posed on the words you both used. If you didnt mean what you said, then word it differenly. Its hardly rocket science is it.

Here in Australia, at least through my experience, 'ignorant' is hardly ever used to substitute for 'rude'. We have a plethora of more flavorful words for that purpose. So, "If you didn't mean what you said, then word it differently."

After all, it's hardly rocket science is it?

However, I don't really believe that's the way you intended to use it since:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella
You might think they're rude, stupid, unnecessary, provocative, etc. but "ignorance" would imply that there's some factual information that the participants don't have.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
I feel sorry for you if you fail to see mocking someones religion as anything other than ignorance.

Which would make that comment pretty damn retarded if that WAS what you intended. So I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and just assuming you're covering earlier incompetence.

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Post #: 136

RE: Draw Mohammed Day is near - 5/24/2010 4:12:35 PM

Politesub53

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Joined: 5/7/2007
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I neither need nor want your benefit of the doubt.

Mocking someones religion is ignorant, as in rude. It is also ignorant as it shows little knowledge of how this would be perceived in countries we are trying to build bridges with. Just as the burning of US and UK flags are peceived over here.

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Post #: 137

RE: Draw Mohammed Day is near - 5/24/2010 4:33:33 PM

Elisabella

Posts: 3939
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Mocking someones religion is ignorant, as in rude.

When we were playing semantics I suggested 'rude' twice as an alternative for 'ignorant' and both times you said no, you really meant ignorant, not rude. The fact that you characterized rude as something "other than ignorance" also makes me wonder why you didn't just say "oh yes, rude is a good synonym" instead.

quote:

It is also ignorant as it shows little knowledge of how this would be perceived in countries we are trying to build bridges with. Just as the burning of US and UK flags are peceived over here.

That bolded bit would be a valid point if it applied...I can't speak for anyone else but I'm definitely not ignorant of the way it's perceived, and I don't think that flag burners in the Middle East are ignorant of the way their actions are perceived.

People often mischaracterize our actions as a "war against Islam" but in my eyes it's a war against fundamentalist Islam, and fundamentalist Islam is at war with us too. It's a war I hope we win. I have no problem with Muslims, as a whole, with people who worship Allah and pray in a mosque, etc. I have no problem with women who voluntarily cover their hair or even face, because it's how they feel fulfilled serving their God.

What I do have a problem with are people who feel the need to kill over this shit. Like I said before, this isn't a random "let's all make fun of Islam" thing, this is a direct response to a specific situation where two cartoonists and the network who aired their show were threatened with violence for including Islam on the long, long, LONG list of things they irreverently mocked.

Like I said before, it's provocative, and it's not nice. We agree on that, we just seem to disagree over whether we should play nice in response to death threats.

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Post #: 138

RE: Draw Mohammed Day is near - 5/24/2010 5:22:11 PM

scrapdaddy

Posts: 32
Joined: 5/22/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

I neither need nor want your benefit of the doubt.

Mocking someones religion is ignorant, as in rude. It is also ignorant as it shows little knowledge of how this would be perceived in countries we are trying to build bridges with. Just as the burning of US and UK flags are peceived over here.

Buddy, you need all the help you can get on this issue right now. You've proven yourself either ignorant - in the literal sense - or incompetent in the use of English (allegedly your native language) - which is a massive faux pas considering you explicitly insulted my command of the same. How many more feet can you fit in your mouth?

Yes, I am aware that some may view these cartoons as inciteful rather than insightful, but that is on their heads. That is on their ignorance (and yours) of the motivation behind these pictures, not the refusal of men (and women) like myself to bow to the threats of terrorists and extremists of any bent.

As I said before, if you're willing to surrender your right to speak your mind, to express your beliefs and principles, and to stand up for what you believe in - because you might upset someone - then you don't deserve that right in the first place. Quite simply, that is cowardice. Maybe you're used to wearing gags, but I'm not - and I refuse to do so.

There is something gravely wrong when threats of violence are all it takes to silence dissent, and where those who have been silenced believe that it a good thing or justified. Maybe you just cannot understand that.

< Message edited by scrapdaddy -- 5/24/2010 5:26:20 PM >

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Post #: 139

RE: Draw Mohammed Day is near - 5/24/2010 7:03:23 PM

DCWoody

Posts: 1401
Joined: 10/27/2006
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I have two choices of picture to attach to this reply to a thread that's too long for me to bother to read, both will get my point across roughly...my point being essentially 'fuck you'....directed at anyone who things I shouldn't (be allowed to) post them...which is concise at least.

Either a pic I found many years ago of a mockup lego (made in denmark) mohammed, complete with all wives including 9 year old aisha....or, a MSpaint which I haven't yet, but may be about to, drawn....drawn? Created.

Collarchat needs to support .png already.