RE: Draw Mohammed Day is near

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RE: Draw Mohammed Day is near - 5/25/2010 2:16:02 AM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: scrapdaddy

Yes, I am aware that some may view these cartoons as inciteful rather than insightful, but that is on their heads. That is on their ignorance (and yours) of the motivation behind these pictures, not the refusal of men (and women) like myself to bow to the threats of terrorists and extremists of any bent.

As I said before, if you're willing to surrender your right to speak your mind, to express your beliefs and principles, and to stand up for what you believe in - because you might upset someone - then you don't deserve that right in the first place. Quite simply, that is cowardice. Maybe you're used to wearing gags, but I'm not - and I refuse to do so.

There is something gravely wrong when threats of violence are all it takes to silence dissent, and where those who have been silenced believe that it a good thing or justified. Maybe you just cannot understand that.

If you think I am afraid to speak out against Islam, from your short time on the boards, then you have a screw lose. Not only have I spoken out against terrorism, I have been castigated for suggesting we should just shoot the bastards out of hand. You will not be able to find one post from me where I have excused terrorist violence, on this thread or any other.

There is no allegedly about English being my native tongue, if you feel it makes your argument stronger, then go for it. I have never been afraid to speak my mind on any subject, or to anyone, including you. To suggest I dont have a command of English, or that I lack the balls to speak out, seems a weak way of debating.

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RE: Draw Mohammed Day is near - 5/25/2010 2:40:14 AM

scrapdaddy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

To suggest I dont have a command of English, or that I lack the balls to speak out, seems a weak way of debating.

To the former, I completely agree and in the spirit of every school yard rumble allow me the humility of saying "You started it.".

To the latter, I also agree, but since you refuse to actually address the points raised and keep falling back to reiterating a variant "if you don't agree with me you are ignorant", I have little option and needs must stoop to your level.

Let us then, with due speed, return to the topic.

Did you know that the three most inflammatory pictures presented by those outraged imams and circulated to all circles beseeching sympathy and support were created and planted by those self-same imams and had nothing to do with the Danish cartoonists? Did you know that those three pictures are commonly held to have been the trigger for the violence and threats against the artists?

Are you surprised that radical muslims would try to (and succeed in) manufacturing sympathy through forgery and deception?

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RE: Draw Mohammed Day is near - 5/25/2010 3:08:15 AM

Politesub53

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Scrapdaddy, I dont see myself as having started anything but no matter.

Do you have a link to back up any claims about the Danish cartoons being circulated by the Imams themselves. I admit to not having heard of this. And no, propganda is used on all sides, so I wouldnt put this past them.

As for this thread alone, and the issue of the drawings. I did make my point very clearly a few pages ago. What I feel it does, is antogonise those that we are in dialogue with. The moderate Muslims who we can maybe deal with.

It is intersting that both the woman with the original idea, and the guy who set up the facebook page, both withdrew. Both felt the whole idea had turned into something offensive to Muslims in general. This is how I, and others that have posted here, see the issue.

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Post #: 143

RE: Draw Mohammed Day is near - 5/25/2010 3:15:56 AM

Elisabella

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quote:

Do you have a link to back up any claims about the Danish cartoons being circulated by the Imams themselves. I admit to not having heard of this.

It's in the link that the OP posted.

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Post #: 144

RE: Draw Mohammed Day is near - 5/25/2010 3:19:13 AM

LadyEllen

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Now, if it could just be arranged that the winning entry were announced as having been submitted by a Mr F Phelps.......

E

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Post #: 145

RE: Draw Mohammed Day is near - 5/25/2010 3:40:11 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

quote:

Do you have a link to back up any claims about the Danish cartoons being circulated by the Imams themselves. I admit to not having heard of this.

It's in the link that the OP posted.

What the OP posted is not an 'official' link. It's a blog rehash of a right wing sentance that has been used over and over and over and over and over...

I took a look into it. The whole sentance is plagerism from an article that as far as I can see, came from a right wing site back in 2005.

the.dark.

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Post #: 146

RE: Draw Mohammed Day is near - 5/25/2010 5:41:03 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Now, if it could just be arranged that the winning entry were announced as having been submitted by a Mr F Phelps.......

E

Well up until this post, I thought the whole draw Mohammed thing was pointless, but now.....maybe not so much.

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Post #: 147

RE: Draw Mohammed Day is near - 5/25/2010 6:59:54 AM

scrapdaddy

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Joined: 5/22/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc

quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

quote:

Do you have a link to back up any claims about the Danish cartoons being circulated by the Imams themselves. I admit to not having heard of this.

It's in the link that the OP posted.

What the OP posted is not an 'official' link. It's a blog rehash of a right wing sentance that has been used over and over and over and over and over...

I took a look into it. The whole sentance is plagerism from an article that as far as I can see, came from a right wing site back in 2005.

the.dark.

Actually, no. It comes from known facts that those three pictures - the "paedofile", the "dog hump", and the "pig man" pictures were never created nor published by any newspaper or news organization in Denmark. They were added to the portfolio by Ahmed Akkari and company and their pedigree has never been established beyond a passing remark that at least the "pig man" image was received from a concerned Muslim in response to the Danish cartoons. These images were then shopped across the middle east and spurned a level of outrage that saw embassies attacked and flags burned in response, not to mention a murder, death threats, and attacks against the cartoonists.

The "pig man" image is actually a photograph of a man taking part in a pig squeal contest where he dressed for the part, and not a cartoon at all - it is however stolen from a news network. The "dog hump" is also not a cartoon but a "photo-shopped" imposition of a dog and a man kneeling in prayer. The "paedofile" image is crudely drawn and certainly not the work of any artist. To include these images in a dossier accusing the Danes of gross offenses against Islam and Muslims in general is not only dishonest but deliberately inflammatory.

Akkari would later go on to claim that it was not his intent to cause such a violent response, and that he and his group are not responsible for what happened, that he had acted because there was insufficient outrage at the cartoons printed. In the same interview he criticized Danish satirists for making jokes that others could not understand and to state that it was inappropriate for Danish satire to comment on Islam.

< Message edited by scrapdaddy -- 5/25/2010 7:00:39 AM >

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Post #: 148

RE: Draw Mohammed Day is near - 5/25/2010 1:46:02 PM

RCdc

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Er again no.
It's a copy from 2005. It's a plagerised quote. It's not often unless you look up poetry, lyrics or something similar can you find something that is not just almost word for word but actually word for word on other sites allegedly signed off by different people!

If you can post the original quote and post a viable link, then you are talking evidence. Otherwise the rest is just heresay written by you - who we have no concrete proof of who you are.

I am not suggesting that the claim you make isn't genuine, but it's certainly not the original. Until you can link to the original transcript, you aren't validating your claim.

the.dark.

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RE: Draw Mohammed Day is near - 5/25/2010 1:53:43 PM

mnottertail

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44Rwu5yPUrc

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RE: Draw Mohammed Day is near - 5/25/2010 3:14:29 PM

scrapdaddy

Posts: 32
Joined: 5/22/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RCdc

Er again no.
It's a copy from 2005. It's a plagerised quote. It's not often unless you look up poetry, lyrics or something similar can you find something that is not just almost word for word but actually word for word on other sites allegedly signed off by different people!

If you can post the original quote and post a viable link, then you are talking evidence. Otherwise the rest is just heresay written by you - who we have no concrete proof of who you are.

I am not suggesting that the claim you make isn't genuine, but it's certainly not the original. Until you can link to the original transcript, you aren't validating your claim.

the.dark.

This is the best I can do at this stage: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://web.archive.org/web/20060220185434/http://politik.tv2.dk/article.php/3617652.html

There is a lot of information that is no longer available online, and there is a lot that never made it online in any form. The riots and the burning of the embassy are fairly well known, there's not much need to substantiate that. I can add a little more detail regarding the "pig man" picture.

The picture itself belongs to Associated Press, and was taken at a "Pig Squealing" competition, and is of the winner (A father, whose son also competed). The kicker is that the competition occurred two months after the publishing of the cartoons in the Danish newspapers. Akkari stated that he received the image from a concerned Muslim but no evidence has ever been presented where it or the other two pictures included in the dossier came from.

The situation reached the point where delegations from Muslim representation organisations attempted to petition the EU to introduce laws that would make it illegal to criticize, mock, or otherwise disrespect religions.

< Message edited by scrapdaddy -- 5/25/2010 3:54:49 PM >

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