RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your submissive more dominant?

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RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your ... - 5/21/2010 3:57:33 PM

VaguelyCurious

Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

It is actually very confusing. Both things can exist in the same person at the same time. They can both have a fantasy of being taken advantage of and fetish for being called worthless etc on one side, and real self-esteem issues on the other side.
It is possible that the fantasy originated in their mind as a means of dealing with real underlying feelings of inadequacy, which of course doesn't have to be the case, but it is quite plausible.

...and yet none of this theorising is enough to justify the statement that low self esteem is 'quite often the case with submissives', which is what you actually said..

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(in reply to SocratesNot)

Post #: 41

RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your ... - 5/21/2010 4:00:58 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

Well, in my mind the one who has a dominant orientation actually likes to engage in D/s as a Dom(me)

Not so much "likes to" but "is fulfilled in a personal intimate relationship by having the responsibility of authority in day to day life"

quote:

the one who has a dominant peronality is assertive in real life and a natural leader, can easily influence other people without any kink or sex involved

One would hope so considering the great majority of dominant personalities are vanilla :)

quote:

and finally a top is someone who is in charge during a single scene, who actively does something like spanking, etc. Top can be dominant or even submissive if he/ she does it to please their masochistic Dom(me).

Yes here is the rub, as I thought.

A top can indeed be someone who simply directs a scene. But a top can also be someone who engages and enjoys playing regularly as the top.

A top can be a slave, a daddy, a switch, a masochist, a sadist, or even vanilla in their relationship dynamics. There is no exclusivity.

As well you throw in "masochistic" there and I'm not where you got that from. S&M is completely unrelated to Ds and personality. A master can own a slave who tops the master (in non masochistic play) or other people.

Hopefully this will clarify the possibilities in your head. Yes, a person can be helped to express the more assertive and confident aspects of their personality. This is irrelevant to their Ds orientation. Yes, many subs and slaves are excellent tops and have no issue service topping their dominant. This doesn't make them a switch.

< Message edited by LuckyAlbatross -- 5/21/2010 4:03:43 PM >

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to SocratesNot)

Post #: 42

RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your ... - 5/21/2010 4:01:00 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

I've seen some of you forum regulars write opus threads that are nothing but sheer pablum. Is it that freaking difficult to click the X and move to another thread?

Imus, you are often quite critical of the supposed forum regulars. You do realize that you are a forum regular yourself, don't you?

Truthfully, I'd much rather see thread after thread based on people's real lives and experiences, no matter how boring they might seem to some, rather than someone spouting off when they have no first hand knowledge. If there's going to be any educational purpose in this place, wouldn't you want to see that coming from people who share what they have to offer based on who they are and what they've done? I've got a lot more admiration for people who can do that, rather than what they've dreamed up in their own imagination.

Every now and again, this wonderful place draws folks who show up for a little while, create a number of attention whoring, grandiose threads that do exactly one thing. They provide an opportunity for amazing replies, like has been demonstrated here on this one, as well as others.

You know what I'd really like to see happen? One of these days, I'd like to see one of these flash in the pan types use this place as an actual springboard to making something related to this stuff as a leap into their real life. Then, once they have for themselves and another person some tangible resemblance of what might have brought them here in the first place, come back maybe in a year or so and read some of the tripe that they typed up when they first got here and realize why people responded to their threads the way they did.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to DomImus)

Post #: 43

RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your ... - 5/21/2010 4:06:48 PM

SocratesNot

Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline

quote:

...and yet none of this theorising is enough to justify the statement that low self esteem is 'quite often the case with submissives', which is what you actually said..

OK, maybe I am wrong. I don't really know. This is just the impression that I've got. Maybe low self esteem issues are not "quite often the case with submissives", but from all my experience I think that it is at least a bit more common situation among submissives than among non-submissives.

Also, I think there must be some internal cause of their submissiveness. Low self esteem seems like a very logical explanation.

Apart from that, I don't get it why are people so easily offended by some statements. Even if this is completely true that submissives often have the issues with self esteem, so what? I didn't say they are bad people because of this or anything offensive. I said this whole thing in context of practices that might help them be more assertive, and not make fun of them because of some possible issues with self esteem or anything similar.

(in reply to VaguelyCurious)

Post #: 44

RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your ... - 5/21/2010 4:10:40 PM

laurell3

Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
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what exactly is "all of your experience"?

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to SocratesNot)

Post #: 45

RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your ... - 5/21/2010 4:12:13 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

I think that it is at least a bit more common situation among submissives than among non-submissives.

That is an incorrect thought.

quote:

Also, I think there must be some internal cause of their submissiveness. Low self esteem seems like a very logical explanation

And as long as you continue to go about with this idea, you'll be turning away every decent sub and attracting only the basket case drama llamas in constant need of rescuing.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to SocratesNot)

Post #: 46

RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your ... - 5/21/2010 4:12:37 PM

VaguelyCurious

Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

OK, maybe I am wrong. I don't really know. This is just the impression that I've got. Maybe low self esteem issues are not "quite often the case with submissives", but from all my experience I think that it is at least a bit more common situation among submissives than among non-submissives.

...all your experience? You said in the OP that you had no experience whatsoever.

quote:

Also, I think there must be some internal cause of their submissiveness. Low self esteem seems like a very logical explanation.

I think this is the 'no actual experience' thing again. Seriously, fella: real life D/s interactions aren't like that. I know people who feel at their strongest and most powerful when they are submitting. It's not 'I'm not good enough to make the decisions so I will leave them to someone else'-or at least it isn't that for everyone.

Christ, someone who's actually submissive help me out here?

quote:

Apart from that, I don't get it why are people so easily offended by some statements. Even if this is completely true that submissives often have the issues with self esteem, so what?

Who's offended? People get annoyed when you make random generalisations. People get irritated when you talk nonsense. But I haven't seen anyone who seems offended on this thread-we save that for when people call us fat...

Edited to remove a 'really'; I overuse the word, really I do :P

< Message edited by VaguelyCurious -- 5/21/2010 4:13:25 PM >

_____________________________

Sthetic on FetLife.

(in reply to SocratesNot)

Post #: 47

RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your ... - 5/21/2010 4:17:00 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

OP, you are entirely confused. He did spend some time shoring up my self esteem but he didn't make me more dominant. I am not dominant in my relationships with anyone. I look for a win/win always, not to impose my force of will on someone else. That doesn't make me submissive, dominant or switch. I'm submissive only to one, dominant to none. Even the dog, who prefers to be by my side accepts him as alpha and obeys him, not me.

And again, you need to be upfront with any prospective partner about you wanting them to top you, either under your direction or or their own. Because lots of us aren't at all interested in doing so. I can assure you that I would make the world's worst top, stopping every moment to see if they were all right and apologizing for hurting them. I am not sadistic and you need to be in order to be a good top for impact play.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

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Post #: 48

RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your ... - 5/21/2010 4:24:44 PM

SocratesNot

Posts: 812
Joined: 5/17/2010
Status: offline

quote:

I would make the world's worst top, stopping every moment to see if they were all right and apologizing for hurting them.

If you are aware that they are enjoying the impact play and that you are actually pleasing them by hitting them, why would you feel the need to apologize?

< Message edited by SocratesNot -- 5/21/2010 4:25:39 PM >

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 49

RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your ... - 5/21/2010 4:25:36 PM

lally2

Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot
.Also, I think there must be some internal cause of their submissiveness. Low self esteem seems like a very logical explanation.

.

another dangerous premis that you must erradicate as soon as possible or it will colour youre relationships from the get go.

submissives/slaves of the Ds and or Ms variety are of a personality type. thats it. to suggest that it is low self esteem that brings us to our knees is getting dangerously close to insulting.

by saying that you are actually minimising the entire energy of submission and Dominance.

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to SocratesNot)

Post #: 50

RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your ... - 5/21/2010 4:28:45 PM

VaguelyCurious

Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

by saying that you are actually minimising the entire energy of submission and Dominance.

That's a very classy and elegant way of putting it

_____________________________

Sthetic on FetLife.

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 51

RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your ... - 5/21/2010 4:34:15 PM

lally2

Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

OK, maybe I am wrong. I don't really know. This is just the impression that I've got. Maybe low self esteem issues are not "quite often the case with submissives", but from all my experience I think that it is at least a bit more common situation among submissives than among non-submissives.
...all your experience? You said in the OP that you had no experience whatsoever.

quote:

Also, I think there must be some internal cause of their submissiveness. Low self esteem seems like a very logical explanation.
I think this is the 'no actual experience' thing again. Seriously, fella: real life D/s interactions aren't like that. I know people who feel at their strongest and most powerful when they are submitting. It's not 'I'm not good enough to make the decisions so I will leave them to someone else'-or at least it isn't that for everyone.

Christ, someone who's actually submissive help me out here?

.

-

my internal cause is love for the dominant man (and the dominant women too actually) - i love them - to my core - all of them, even domiguy

- i love them because they understand people like me and im grateful that they are there as my opposite number so that i can be me, fully, freely and absolutely - they demand that i am me, they demand all that i can give and i can give all of me because they have the capacity to take it all and return it with care, understanding, fulfillment and pleasure. i love that i can bring them that pleasure, that my personality type compliments their personality type. in a Ds or Ms relationship i am me and at no other time and in no other relationship can i be what i am with them and to them.

it has nothing at all to do with low self esteem and everything to do with giving pleasure and fulfillment to another human being who understands what and who i am.

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to VaguelyCurious)

Post #: 52

RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your ... - 5/21/2010 4:34:41 PM

laurell3

Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline

Hey SN is it feeling to you like we are lacking in self-esteem, like we need assistance to make our points? Take a look around you. Your "logic" is absolutely again just you trying to expound on your personal feelings and make it "right" like it's some sort of science. You cannot read the input that people are giving you and see that it's CLEARLY not the case with the audience that makes up the very people you are talking about. What is up with that? You write intelligently but yet, you really make no attempt whatsoever to understand the information you are given.

Instead of assuming we're all flawed and submitting out of low self-esteem or because of some psychological dysfunction that you find "logical". Why don't you ask? Why do we do it? Or better yet, don't, and search for it, there's TONS of threads on it. I think you should by now after spending the entire day here be getting the picture that your absolutes are just absolute garbage.

As LP points out, the actual OP isn't always the one that sends you the thought that causes you to think about something you may grow from and ladies I'm impressed with your responses and it caused me a bit of personal reflection as well. Thank you.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to SocratesNot)

Post #: 53

RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your ... - 5/21/2010 4:37:49 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

submissives/slaves of the Ds and or Ms variety are of a personality type

I disagree with you. Personality is irrelevant to Ds orientation.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to laurell3)

Post #: 54

RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your ... - 5/21/2010 4:38:03 PM

lally2

Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

by saying that you are actually minimising the entire energy of submission and Dominance.

That's a very classy and elegant way of putting it

ty

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to VaguelyCurious)

Post #: 55

RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your ... - 5/21/2010 4:42:06 PM

laurell3

Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

submissives/slaves of the Ds and or Ms variety are of a personality type

I disagree with you. Personality is irrelevant to Ds orientation.

Agreed but I'm not sure she meant it in that exact context, more they are counterparts if I am reading it correctly.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 56

RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your ... - 5/21/2010 4:42:18 PM

porcelaine

Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline

SocratesNot,

quote:

but, as a Dom I would like to make my sub more dominant.

What is she a wallflower? Do you actually believe all submissives are subservient or meek and mild?

quote:

One of their tasks as my subs would also be to dominate me when I want it, which would allow them to experience being in charge, being in control (a certain ego boost), while at the same time satisfying my switchy desires.

I really can't fathom where you find these ideas. But I'll tell you this much, there are a lot of women that fall outside of the scope you've drawn. Identifying yourself as dominant doesn't suggest that you can dominate every woman you encounter either.

~porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to SocratesNot)

Post #: 57

RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your ... - 5/21/2010 4:45:41 PM

lally2

Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

submissives/slaves of the Ds and or Ms variety are of a personality type

I disagree with you. Personality is irrelevant to Ds orientation.

in my case it is relevant. i was writing from my perspective and should be more careful to avoid generalised sweeps.

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 58

RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your ... - 5/21/2010 4:46:57 PM

VaguelyCurious

Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

submissives/slaves of the Ds and or Ms variety are of a personality type

I disagree with you. Personality is irrelevant to Ds orientation.

Agreed but I'm not sure she meant it in that exact context, more they are counterparts if I am reading it correctly.

[sarcasm]

Lookit! You guys are even confident enough in yourselves to debate with each other!

The D-types who you've encountered in your lives must be so proud (given that it was obviously them forcing you guys to be dominant that gave you the self-esteem you have today...)

[/sarcasm]

ETA sarcasm markers

< Message edited by VaguelyCurious -- 5/21/2010 4:50:28 PM >

_____________________________

Sthetic on FetLife.

(in reply to laurell3)

Post #: 59

RE: Do any of you Dominants have a desire to make your ... - 5/21/2010 4:54:28 PM

lally2

Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

submissives/slaves of the Ds and or Ms variety are of a personality type

I disagree with you. Personality is irrelevant to Ds orientation.

Agreed but I'm not sure she meant it in that exact context, more they are counterparts if I am reading it correctly.

i guess that is what i meant, but also from my perspective - personally i am attracted to men who are of a naturally dominant disposition, their personality is all about the leadership of me and the relationship we have together. i for my part am of a submissive type, it isnt a hat i put on for play or the weekend. when i am in a Ds or Ms relationship my submissive personality is given the freedom to relax, unwind and relate - i am much more *me* fully when i am in submission.

the rest of the time, in ordinary life i tackle life pretty well, but my personality expresses itself more fully, roundly and completely when i am in submission.

so for me it is about personality type but i accept that it isnt the case for all Ds situations.

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to laurell3)

Post #: 60

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