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RE: Not allowed to be sick? - 6/12/2010 11:08:03 AM   
NuevaVida


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Rich...if people are abusing sickness....you don't fuck around with half-arsed statements guaranteed to piss off everyone....you just manage the bad apples out of the organisation.


Bingo!!

How's that wardrobe thing working out, btw? 

We're being so micromanaged right now, we all suspect that at our next staff meeting, we'll receive our rotating schedules of when to inhale and when to exhale.


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RE: Not allowed to be sick? - 6/13/2010 2:49:43 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

We're being so micromanaged right now, we all suspect that at our next staff meeting, we'll receive our rotating schedules of when to inhale and when to exhale.



I think it was you and I talking about the internet at work.

Gotta say there is nothing in the contract that states: "take half an hour messing around on the internet every day in order to increase your productivity". In my line of work - it is a given that an employee will be productive in return for the agreed incentives such as salary.

But I would say that unless the contract....or job description...or interview procedure states somewhere: "we will not empower you.....we expect you to conform to a series of top down procedures day in day out".....then I'd agree that it is implicit in the agreement that employees are to be given the space to perform in terms of efficiency and effectiveness...in line with the departments/organisation's objectives of course.....unless/until they break that trust.

I've been there a few year back with someone who came to our department with no finance experience whatsover. There was no option but close supervision and a lot of on the job training due to her lack of experience. It was energy sapping - training and checking etc - with all the usual deadlines to meet. I think anyone who's been in that position would be the over moon having an employee who'll just get on with the job and do it well with the minimum of management.

But then there's the control aspect. Some people just need to put their fingers in the pie.....doesn't matter whether the pie is already fine......and that's an absolute nightmare....and there's not a great deal you can do when you have a boss who can't see the woods for the trees....and just wants to be seen to be in control of everything. You can try to reason with them.....you can try to show them through experience that being overbearing doesn't work......but this assumes that the boss is reasonable and willing to listen....and control freaks are a tricky bunch when it comes to talking some sense into!

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RE: Not allowed to be sick? - 6/13/2010 10:41:30 AM   
NuevaVida


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

But then there's the control aspect. Some people just need to put their fingers in the pie.....doesn't matter whether the pie is already fine......and that's an absolute nightmare....and there's not a great deal you can do when you have a boss who can't see the woods for the trees....and just wants to be seen to be in control of everything. You can try to reason with them.....you can try to show them through experience that being overbearing doesn't work......but this assumes that the boss is reasonable and willing to listen....and control freaks are a tricky bunch when it comes to talking some sense into!


Hi NorthernGent,

Yes, it was you and I having that discussion about the internet.

We think a lot a like in this case.  I took this job as a position that would work independently with very little direction.  It was perfect for me - I could just sit in my little world and collaborate with my little group and we were all very happy and productive.

A new boss has come in, who is an extreme micro-manager, instructing us on what words to use, on how to phrase requests, on what font style to use.  It's no longer about correcting incorrect data, it's about minute details that don't matter in the big picture.  It's about meeting her preferences.  We're all just looking at each other like "What the hell" and trying to figure out how to get our jobs done and be happy, when the Tasmanian Devil is running around like Chicken Little on crack.  The environment is the polar opposite from what it was.  It's quite the adjustment.  Some of us (myself included) are looking for other positions in the organization.

She took a well oiled, functioning machine and clobbered it.  I'd say it's not working so well, lol.


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RE: Not allowed to be sick? - 6/13/2010 2:40:08 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

A new boss has come in, who is an extreme micro-manager, instructing us on what words to use, on how to phrase requests, on what font style to use.  It's no longer about correcting incorrect data, it's about minute details that don't matter in the big picture.  It's about meeting her preferences. 



Hi....

I can imagine the frustration. What do you do eh? Not only frustrating but insulting and although not familiar with the personalities involved........I'd guess your boss will be on the wrong end of a mutiny sooner of later.

Is there anyone who she seems to get on with......someone she may listen to and take some much needed advice on board? 

Edited to add: I'm assuming she's not too experienced in management otherwise she would have learned a few valuable lessons from adopting that management style....and we all make mistakes when going into management......perhaps a few constructive words in her ear could make a massive difference. 

< Message edited by NorthernGent -- 6/13/2010 2:44:52 PM >

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RE: Not allowed to be sick? - 6/13/2010 10:45:32 PM   
NuevaVida


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Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline 		Hi again,

It all flows downhill.  The near hysteria that we're getting is flowing from the VP level; Our last boss was really good at filtering that from us.  This current one is not so good at it.  I'm actually friends with her boss, but he reports directly to the VP and right now, everyone thinks as long as they're getting results, then all is well.

As for what we do - we're in Healthcare Information Services.  Fascinating but very detail-oriented work.  I love the work.  I love my group of coworkers.   I'm not loving my boss so much, however!



< Message edited by NuevaVida -- 6/13/2010 10:46:53 PM >

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RE: Not allowed to be sick? - 6/14/2010 1:44:38 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

Hi again,

It all flows downhill.  The near hysteria that we're getting is flowing from the VP level; Our last boss was really good at filtering that from us.  This current one is not so good at it.  I'm actually friends with her boss, but he reports directly to the VP and right now, everyone thinks as long as they're getting results, then all is well.

As for what we do - we're in Healthcare Information Services.  Fascinating but very detail-oriented work.  I love the work.  I love my group of coworkers.   I'm not loving my boss so much, however!



You'd think strategic matters would take precedence over font size.....

Where I work our MD asks project staff to write reports for board (it's part of their jobs)....so they do.......problem being that the MD pretty much changes everything in the reports before they go to board......so the project staff just write anything down....usually taking the piss for good measure and nothing to do with what the MD asked from them......what's the point when it's only going to be changed wholesale!.....

Seems the only thing you can do is explain the effect the micro management is having on the team......not an easy thing to do without making her feel like she's an outsider and creating more problems....I dunno....you women tend to do diplomacy well so it could work.....



_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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RE: Not allowed to be sick? - 6/14/2010 4:58:09 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		"the agreed incentives such as salary."

I just had to drop in and express how enamoured I am at that statement. That really says it, and possibly more.

It does come back to the work ethic (I do intend to stay on topic believe it or not). If I were to work full time what I make is roughly equivalent to about $61,000US per year. I respect that. Other than usually two cigarette breaks in a day I do not stop. Even on a cig break I might take my laptop with me to study up on something. Other dead time include waiting for others to get done with something so they can help bring in my "next pig to poke" in a manner of speaking. I sold all my time since I walked in the door. The smoke breaks are a rebate, and the other dead time is not my fault, and in fact I try to time my breaks with other inevitable dead time(s) if and when they occur.

Sometimes I don't feel well, but I take the day off if I don't think I can function at or near 100%. It is also a balance between the company's needs and my own. Sometimes it is "Can you come in and just do this, then you can go home and sleep ?" At that point I will come and do what is necessary. Other times when things are slow, I still need to eat and they will find me something to do to make ends meet. That entails at times, cleaning some of those skeletons out of the closet.

That is why out of all the jobs for which I have ever applied I've only failed to get two, and can contact nearly all of my ex employers as I left on good terms. One thing about Termy, when he walks in the door you are making money. One phrase I have never spoken out loud, but runs through my head as I walk in the door is "Know my job and do it". That is one of the very few things I really have to sell. Actually the only thing any proletarian has to sell. It does us best not to poison our only product.

Maybe it's not even a true work ethic, but more a matter of logic. Maybe there is nothing to it in the way of anything noble or even commendable. Perhaps it can be reduced to the simplest Freudian terms. My id wants things, shelter, food, intoxicants and so forth. My ego is how I get it, researching and motivating myself to solve the problems presented. Then the superego is what prevents me from taking the easy way out, poisoning my product with prevarication or dishonesty, like pilferage. Perhaps there is nothing moral about it at all, just a means to an end.

But illness bring in another variable, dependant upon other variables of course. If I just didn't get enough sleep or have a cold or something the question is simply whether I can perfoim satisfactorily or not. When it comes to something contagious many other things come into play. Then if I stay away from work for that reason I should avoid public places, and all close contact with others, should I not ?

I really don't know about the specifics of that because it was never an issue. Up until a couple of years ago I had one of the strongest immune systems around. I think I could've drank Typhoid Mary's blood and just shoved dogshit into a bullet wound and be just fine. I am not joking, but of course things change.

It still boils down to if I can function. Sometimes I function well but things go wrong and a day is a total loss, it happens. I don't really feel right even taking the money for that day and have to kick myself remembering the other day when I pulled in thousands, and how it all comes out in the wash. It averages out and once added up, I still have a job.

I have been on both sides of the desk.

But this wicket can get so sticky...... If I don't want to play Typhoid Mary at work, I shouodn't go to a doctor either, there are people there who are already sick and don't need to also catch what I got. So where does that leave us ? Doctors used to put a "quarantine" sign on the front dorr of your house, which basically means think carefully before enering because you will be exposed to some nasty germs. But certain people will cross that threshold unimpeded, doctors, nurses, some others.

So what gives ? If infected with a contagious disease are we simply expected to die alone ? Not quite. The can of worms has exploded into the great gray area. What is right ? If I use public transportation to get to work, and my employer insists that I come in under these circumstances, he is exposing the public at large to a toxin. Does he have the right to do that ? Forget about the fact that he may be

Interruption, more later.

T

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RE: Not allowed to be sick? - 6/14/2010 9:18:45 PM   
NuevaVida


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Status: offline 		Well, in my case there are more agreed upon incentives than just salary, as I'm sure NG implied when he said "such as". 

In my case, I can work from home one day a week.  Up until the new boss came, I could take off to run errands or  have doctor appointments, if I so needed, and my hours were pretty flexible.  I also have a great benefits plan.  In return, I was expected to perform well and manage myself appropriately.  They got about 50+ hours a week out of me, give or take.

The new boss is  a clock watcher.  And, as mentioned before, a very controlling micro-manager.  Because of this, I am less inclined to put in the kind of hours I did before, because I'm less inclined to go out of my way for a bitch.  Take tonight, for example.  At around 8:00 I wanted to keep going (working from home) because I was enjoying what I was doing.  But out of principle (got grief for needing to leave at 3:00 a couple of Friday's ago), I shut my system down and called it a night.  If she wants to be anal retentive about the hours we put in, I will, too, yanno?  So in return for the great benefits I get, I will put in 100%, but only 40 hours a week (unless an issue really is urgent).

They have now effectively demotivated their staff.

And I've been on both sides of the desk, too.

There is a human factor that employers sometimes fail to see. In fact, from both sides of that desk, that's the part I find most fascinating, and that's the part I was able to really get involved in, when I worked for executive boards.  Fun stuff.


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RE: Not allowed to be sick? - 6/14/2010 11:13:43 PM   
lobodomslavery


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Joined: 1/17/2008
Status: offline 		i dont think that you should be exploited definitely not. But if your boss is going to pay You for the extra hours i dont see the problem. the bottom line is that You have a job. You should be grateful. Most would like to be in your position but arent. Most dont have a job
kevin

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RE: Not allowed to be sick? - 6/15/2010 1:39:58 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

In my case, I can work from home one day a week.  Up until the new boss came, I could take off to run errands or  have doctor appointments, if I so needed, and my hours were pretty flexible.  I also have a great benefits plan.  In return, I was expected to perform well and manage myself appropriately.  They got about 50+ hours a week out of me, give or take.



Ah yes....the full story.

Well.....Celeste...I've been there with a pack of women...and if one is getting something the rest want it.........and you can't have everyone clocking off willy nilly on the back of 'working 50 hours a week'.

Harmony among the group will always be more important than one person's version of what they think they deserve.

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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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RE: Not allowed to be sick? - 6/15/2010 8:26:40 PM   
NuevaVida


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

In my case, I can work from home one day a week.  Up until the new boss came, I could take off to run errands or  have doctor appointments, if I so needed, and my hours were pretty flexible.  I also have a great benefits plan.  In return, I was expected to perform well and manage myself appropriately.  They got about 50+ hours a week out of me, give or take.



Ah yes....the full story.

Well.....Celeste...I've been there with a pack of women...and if one is getting something the rest want it.........and you can't have everyone clocking off willy nilly on the back of 'working 50 hours a week'.

Harmony among the group will always be more important than one person's version of what they think they deserve.


Um, whose Celeste?

We all get a work from home day.  We have all had flex hours.  We could deal with that changing if it weren't coupled with the micromanagement of methodology of work.  Has nothing at all to do with deserving something, that's kind of silly.  Seems you don't have the "full story", but that's ok.

In any case, had a great meeting with the boss today.  I get a day off this week, and I'm taking a week off next month, and we had come candid and healthy conversations about the work environment.  Oh and three people called in sick this week.  I did not.


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RE: Not allowed to be sick? - 6/15/2010 9:53:52 PM   
WyldHrt


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quote:

But then there's the control aspect. Some people just need to put their fingers in the pie.....doesn't matter whether the pie is already fine......and that's an absolute nightmare....and there's not a great deal you can do when you have a boss who can't see the woods for the trees....and just wants to be seen to be in control of everything. You can try to reason with them.....you can try to show them through experience that being overbearing doesn't work......but this assumes that the boss is reasonable and willing to listen....and control freaks are a tricky bunch when it comes to talking some sense into!

This. All of it.
I have worked at my current job for 3 years. My boss (a grade A control freak) is currently in Louisiana at our second facility and has been there for several months. In his absence, I have had to take over many aspects of running the business, along with the responsibilities I already had. Okie dokie, thanks for the extra work and no raise, dude. So not only do I now have my original job and a big chunk of his job to do, I also have to put up with his incessant calls and emails. Being a control freak, he just can't help himself. He calls in the middle of 'crunch time' (our shipping rush) to talk about crap that can wait, he complains if we read an email from him and don't have time to reply right away, and he is going slowly insane over the fact that he can't view the spy cams he has all over the property from LA (anyone here see the movie 'Sliver'? Yeah, like that). He has pretty much destroyed the morale of our small staff with his ever increasing need to control everything and his constant complaints.

So today, I get an email from him stating that I must check the phone messages within 1/2hr of clocking in (this is the one thing that was given to someone else to handle when I took over all the other stuff), and that I must check the emails once an hour even in the middle of shipping. To cap it, he says that he will be calling and emailing randomly to make sure I'm doing exactly what he wants. Well, his brilliant plan has worked! I will do as instructed, even if the orders do not go out on time and the customers get pissed off and leave us. What I will no longer do is come in on weekends to see that things are getting done, work off the clock because money is tight and things still need to get done, or answer emails from home in the evenings because I couldn't get to them during working hours.

Good job, Boss!
[/whiiiiine] Anyone got some cheese to go with this?



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RE: Not allowed to be sick? - 6/17/2010 12:23:56 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

Um, whose Celeste?



My brain hasn't developed as it should have done which means I'm bordering on below average and struggling to store more than 3 names.....and I know you're not a Claire...nor an Anne...so Celeste it had to be. On the plus side.....at least I've eliminated a possibility.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

We all get a work from home day.  We have all had flex hours.  We could deal with that changing if it weren't coupled with the micromanagement of methodology of work.  Has nothing at all to do with deserving something, that's kind of silly.  Seems you don't have the "full story", but that's ok.



Seems you're right and I don't have the 'full story'

I have seen on many occasions however people getting uptight about thinking they're not getting a fair crack of the whip because someone has something they don't. I don't know the personalities involved.....and it seems everyone is on a level playing field.....so I'll agree with you and say that there's no problem with home working providing it's not causing in-fighting in the team and providing you can deliver the service expected...which won't be easy in the event you have external customers to satisfy and you've all decamped to a place of your choice!


quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

In any case, had a great meeting with the boss today.  I get a day off this week, and I'm taking a week off next month, and we had come candid and healthy conversations about the work environment.  Oh and three people called in sick this week.  I did not.



Things are looking up then.....next you'll be going in to solve problems and coming out with a car :-)



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I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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RE: Not allowed to be sick? - 6/18/2010 12:24:40 PM   
NuevaVida


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

My brain hasn't developed as it should have done which means I'm bordering on below average and struggling to store more than 3 names.....and I know you're not a Claire...nor an Anne...so Celeste it had to be. On the plus side.....at least I've eliminated a possibility.


hahaha, OK then...George


quote:



Seems you're right and I don't have the 'full story'

I have seen on many occasions however people getting uptight about thinking they're not getting a fair crack of the whip because someone has something they don't. I don't know the personalities involved.....and it seems everyone is on a level playing field.....so I'll agree with you and say that there's no problem with home working providing it's not causing in-fighting in the team and providing you can deliver the service expected...which won't be easy in the event you have external customers to satisfy and you've all decamped to a place of your choice!


All we do is for external customers but 90% of it is online, the rest by phone.  So it the at home rotation works out just fine.  Trust me, having been on both sides of the manager's desk, I rarely ever complain unless I truly believe there is fair cause.  And even in this case, I was mostly just poking fun at a ridiculous comment, as it was my way of diffusing some stress I was feeling at the time.

Anyway, I saw you had posted again so I wanted to acknowledge it.  Thanks for the conversation!!

Oh and WyldHrt, you deserve all the cheese to your heart's content!!



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