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RE: Aftercare - 7/2/2010 6:23:40 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline 		Yeah I commented on that as well. I do think it's totally biological, which is why I'm asking the medical types. I think we associate it with emotions because we are having emotions at the time. I really think questioning it is a bit hypersuspicious.

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Profile   Post #: 141
RE: Aftercare - 7/2/2010 6:25:14 PM   
WyldHrt


Posts: 6412
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline 		I'm not so sure on the whole neurogenic shock thing. It would be interesting to take a sub's blood pressure before hard play and after to see what the difference is. If it is significantly lower after play, then I would say that it is a form of shock.

As to sub drop, I believe you are correct that it is caused by the endorphin dump that intense play generates. The body releases endorphins at low levels all the time. These endorphins affect one both physically and mentally. IMO, 'sub drop' happens when the body attempts to release these 'maintenance doses' of endorphins and finds that the store is temporarily empty. Generating more endorphins takes time, leaving one feeling physically shitty, depressed, or both until a balance returns.

Edited to spell neurogenic correctly


< Message edited by WyldHrt -- 7/2/2010 6:29:12 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 142
RE: Aftercare - 7/2/2010 6:33:27 PM   
kallisto


Posts: 1185
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

The best aftercare is to let her suck your cock until she feels better.




That must be on page 1 one of the Dom handbook.

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Profile   Post #: 143
RE: Aftercare - 7/2/2010 6:36:51 PM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline 		I don't know any of the techincalities of it, but there have been times when I've had sub drop (feeling sad and depressed) after an intense beating, and other times when I've felt high from it for a couple of days. The only thing that I've noted, is that my emotional state about the relationship has been what made the difference for me. In one case it was a bad relationship and the "scening" left me feeling empty and blue. In another case when I felt like I was on cloud nine from the play, it was a case where I was happy about the relationship and the person I was with. I don't know if that makes a difference but for me, it seems to have played a part.


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Profile   Post #: 144
RE: Aftercare - 7/2/2010 6:39:31 PM   
kallisto


Posts: 1185
Status: offline 		marie, I agree. I think my emotional state and the relationship I'm in has played a big part for me, too. I know exactly what you're saying.


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Profile   Post #: 145
RE: Aftercare - 7/2/2010 6:47:18 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

I'm not so sure on the whole nerogenic shock thing. It would be interesting to take a sub's blood pressure before hard play and after to see what the difference is. If it is significantly lower after play, then I would say that it is a form of shock.

As to sub drop, I believe you are correct that it is caused by the endorphin dump that intense play generates. The body releases endorphins at low levels all the time. These endorphins affect one both physically and mentally. IMO, 'sub drop' happens when the body attempts to release these 'maintenance doses' of endorphins and finds that the store is temporarily empty. Generating more endorphins takes time, leaving one feeling physically shitty, depressed, or both until a balance returns.


Close, but not quite, according to My understanding.

Think of it more as a feed line.  Intense play is more like an IV that is wide open.  It's flooding the system.  When you turn it down, you've already put that stuff in there, but unless shut off completely, there's still a drip. 

At some point, there is a readjustment phase.  Even though a person is coming back to the normal state, it doesn't seem that way because they have already been over stimulated.

After over stimulus (play) the brain really is still manufacturing endorphins.  Probably at a slower rate, but producing just the same.  However, because the pleasure centers have been over stimulated, those receptors have gotten used to increased flow and normal rate isn't exactly normal anymore.  It feels deficient, even though it really isn't.

Let's try a better analogy.  Suppose for a week you go on vacation and your caloric intake goes up to 4,000 calories a day, up from 2,000 that is routine.  By the end of the week, your body becomes used to the increase. 

After the week is over, you go back to your normal diet.  This was what you were used to before, but you actually are hungry.  You are still eating your 2,000 calories and that is sufficient, but your body really wants more because that is what you were getting.

It's the same thing in the brain, even though we are talking about shorter time spans.  You are "feeding" your brain (endorphins) at a higher rate.  When you're back to normal, you're still hungry, even though you really are fed.


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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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Profile   Post #: 146
RE: Aftercare - 7/2/2010 6:48:01 PM   
laurell3


Posts: 6577
Joined: 5/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2

I don't know any of the techincalities of it, but there have been times when I've had sub drop (feeling sad and depressed) after an intense beating, and other times when I've felt high from it for a couple of days. The only thing that I've noted, is that my emotional state about the relationship has been what made the difference for me. In one case it was a bad relationship and the "scening" left me feeling empty and blue. In another case when I felt like I was on cloud nine from the play, it was a case where I was happy about the relationship and the person I was with. I don't know if that makes a difference but for me, it seems to have played a part.




Yeah well I'm not saying I'm right at all..hell I have no idea what I'm talking about...I'm not a doctor, I don't play one on tv.

But if it was a physiological thing and you were struggling emotionally because you didn't have that happiness about the relationship, one may attribute it to the emotions, whereas when you're happy you get tired and drawn out and don't make the emotional inference and just take it in stride as not feeling so hot. Does that make sense?

Another thing about this whole thread that bothers me is this. The assumption that aftercare is necessary due to negative emotions is a bit off for me. It's an incredibly bonding positive experience for me, even when I am being pushed. I still need aftercare. Not because I feel like shit about myself, but because I am physically strung out and emotionally incredibly raw (for lack of a better term).

Maybe part of the subdrop is just not having that intense bonding and missing it? shrugs.

_____________________________

I cannot be defined by moments in my life, but must be considered for by the entirety of my existence.

When you fail to consider that I am the best judge for what is right for me, all of your opinions become suspect to me.

(in reply to marie2)
Profile   Post #: 147
RE: Aftercare - 7/2/2010 6:49:30 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kallisto

marie, I agree. I think my emotional state and the relationship I'm in has played a big part for me, too. I know exactly what you're saying.




I heard once that there are very few different physical reactions to stimuli, and we just interpret those states differently based on our relationship to them....

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Profile   Post #: 148
RE: Aftercare - 7/2/2010 6:58:29 PM   
WyldHrt


Posts: 6412
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

Close, but not quite, according to My understanding.

This isn't something I've studied, and I honestly don't know for sure. I based my post on what I have read about 'runners high' and endorphin crash afterward. Now y'all have got me curious.
Time to hit the books!


_____________________________

"MotherFUCKER!" is NOT a safeword!!"- Steel
"We've had complaints about 'orgy noises'. This is not the neighborhood for that kind of thing"- PVE Cop

Resident "Hypnotic Eyes", "Cleavage" and "Toy Whore"
Subby Mafia, VAA Posse & Team Troll!

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Profile   Post #: 149
RE: Aftercare - 7/2/2010 7:04:07 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		Or we could just go out and play.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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Profile   Post #: 150
RE: Aftercare - 7/2/2010 7:05:31 PM   
Valyraen


Posts: 746
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline 		*grumbles* ...and y'all would have to be all the way across the freakin' continent...

*curls up in his kitty-house and mutters darkly*

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Profile   Post #: 151
RE: Aftercare - 7/2/2010 7:05:34 PM   
WyldHrt


Posts: 6412
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline 		Tease! 

_____________________________

"MotherFUCKER!" is NOT a safeword!!"- Steel
"We've had complaints about 'orgy noises'. This is not the neighborhood for that kind of thing"- PVE Cop

Resident "Hypnotic Eyes", "Cleavage" and "Toy Whore"
Subby Mafia, VAA Posse & Team Troll!

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 152
RE: Aftercare - 7/2/2010 7:14:35 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		And your birthday is when?

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to WyldHrt)
Profile   Post #: 153
RE: Aftercare - 7/2/2010 7:19:11 PM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3


But if it was a physiological thing and you were struggling emotionally because you didn't have that happiness about the relationship, one may attribute it to the emotions, whereas when you're happy you get tired and drawn out and don't make the emotional inference and just take it in stride as not feeling so hot. Does that make sense?


Not sure if I'm understanding you correctly. But, I'm not really one to have a subdrop feeling when things in the relationship and my state of mind are good. I might feel tired and just want to relax afterwards, but I don't get any type of "not feeling so hot" feeling if my state of mind about the relationship is good. The worst thing I feel is tired and/or relaxed.

quote:

Another thing about this whole thread that bothers me is this. The assumption that aftercare is necessary due to negative emotions is a bit off for me. It's an incredibly bonding positive experience for me, even when I am being pushed. I still need aftercare. Not because I feel like shit about myself, but because I am physically strung out and emotionally incredibly raw (for lack of a better term).


I guess it's a different thing for everyone.
I don't get the feeling that everyone thinks aftercare is necessary to give the submissive security that she is cared for. I think if there is a lack of that, then something is wrong in the relationship to begin with. Which is what I think was the case for myself in a couple of relationships that I had in which I experienced a feeling of being blue and sad afterwards. But for me, even in the best case scenerio, I simply do not need or crave the physical affection afterwards, but I can certainly understand how some people find that to be a bonding process and something integral to the intimate aspects of their relationship.



(in reply to laurell3)
Profile   Post #: 154
RE: Aftercare - 7/2/2010 7:23:13 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		You know, I was thinking more about this topic and aftercare is also needed sometimes just to address some after play physical issues.

My last partner was not at all interested in aftercare because to him, whatever we did was fun and hot and he did not like to imagine that I was actually a REAL girl and not a blow up doll that would recover instantly from whatever happened during play.

One time, this attitude landed me in the hospital for 6 days; and although a very bad accident, I believe to this day that if I had been with someone else doing the same activity, and received some better aftercare (even though I aftercared for myself) I would not have had to experience the hospital.

So on one level, I know that I need some emotional balance afterwards, but more importantly, knowing that someone who was engaging in some serious type of edge play, cared enough to realize the after effects may be more than they imagined or bargained for. He was not that guy and to this day, whenever I bring it up when I speak to him, he says, Oh you know that was an accident.

He won't ever get it and that is fine; now I know only to engage with those who do.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 155
RE: Aftercare - 7/2/2010 8:57:23 PM   
Firebirdseeking


Posts: 477
Joined: 9/3/2006
Status: offline 		I'm sorry you had that experience, red. To me, that man was no dominant. He was and is clueless.

Also possibly an abuser.

(in reply to sexyred1)
Profile   Post #: 156
RE: Aftercare - 7/2/2010 9:01:46 PM   
WyldHrt


Posts: 6412
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

And your birthday is when?

Shortly after the bruises from last weekend finally fade


_____________________________

"MotherFUCKER!" is NOT a safeword!!"- Steel
"We've had complaints about 'orgy noises'. This is not the neighborhood for that kind of thing"- PVE Cop

Resident "Hypnotic Eyes", "Cleavage" and "Toy Whore"
Subby Mafia, VAA Posse & Team Troll!

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 157
RE: Aftercare - 7/2/2010 9:31:06 PM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline 		Am I the only one who absolutely loves the flirtaciosity between the lovely Wyld Woman and the Luscious Lady?

I mean... seriously.



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Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

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Profile   Post #: 158
RE: Aftercare - 7/3/2010 1:49:20 AM   
MistressRouge


Posts: 876
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Birmingham West Midlands UK
Status: offline 		It depends on the sub, and it depends on the scene/session prior.

As a sadist, it is quite theraputic for Me, to tend to the wounds of My inflictions, and it closes and winds down from the session.

I am always in contact with Mine, via email, telephone etc, so that is also the aftercare that I prefer contact.

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Profile   Post #: 159
RE: Aftercare - 7/3/2010 2:04:40 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AQuietSimpleMan


Perhaps I am. I do however point out the MAJOR difference between number of subspace need thread Vs. Domspace need Threads, mostly because most Dom's don't see it as something they need, I agree that I am slightly different in that respect.

If aftercare is the only issue that would be one thing but based on the OP's last Post it looks like Aftercare is only one of many things she is not getting, perhaps this is a thread to have people attempt to convince her to leave him I don't know I gave my opinion on Aftercare.

QSM


I understand your point to an extent....and I understand your 'get your head together' attitude....horses for courses or irresponsible? Depends upon the state of mind of the woman which you have at your disposal. It would be irresponsible to ignore someone who needs that support when you have helped to create the situation. I think you could argue that you care enough about her.......and prove it with your actions....in other aspects of your relationship that she knows she's cared for and wanted without having to go through bringing her back to 'mental well being'.

Using an example given on this thread.....treating a woman like a whore and going through the process of telling her she's not a whore....I have little patience for that because to me it's just normal for two people fucking to fuck like animals...I mean that's what we are.....so to then have to go through a drawn out reassurance process doesn't sit well with me......which is why I have relationships with women who see it like me. But having said that.....I really like to talk........and to me that is part of sex of any description...having a leisurely conversation afterwards sits well with me.....although I would infinitely rather it be a conversation about a book either one of us was reading than having to tell her she's not a whore.

And then you have other aspects such as knives coming into the equation. Now to me you're moving beyond fucking like animals.......particulary if you're cutting.....and into an arena that really does demand that you spend time making sure she's fine.....you have a woman on your hands who is in a frame of mind that is entirely different to when you've 'fucked like animals'.....so...as another poster argued it is entirely responsible to manage that state of mind....one which you have helped to create.....

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Profile   Post #: 160
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