THe protestants and the catholics are still fighting over in NI(as in july 2010)

THe protestants and the catholics are still fighting over in NI(as in july 2010) (Full Version)

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thishereboi -> THe protestants and the catholics are still fighting over in NI(as in july 2010) (9/18/2010 5:18:10 AM)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jul/14/police-belfast-violence-ardoyne I have seen this link posted in a couple of threads and thought it deserved it's own space so it wouldn't be overlooked.

DarkSteven -> RE: THe protestants and the catholics are still fighting over in NI(as in july 2010) (9/18/2010 5:37:55 AM)
Just thought that I'd add that the press represents this as a religious thing between Catholics and Protestants but it's actually a cultural-economic split, and religion is only one aspect.

Aneirin -> RE: THe protestants and the catholics are still fighting over in NI(as in july 2010) (9/18/2010 5:57:19 AM)
Religion again, that old tired vehicle used to propel the difference in people. Perhaps for a world to evolve we really do need to ban religion, chuck out the ideas of an ancient past and deal with the present to ensure a better future. Or as a compromise, all that feel the draw to religion (organised and controlled belief), let them continue, but do so in private. That is no outward display of faith control as it has no place in a modern future.

Moonhead -> RE: THe protestants and the catholics are still fighting over in NI(as in july 2010) (9/18/2010 6:12:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven Just thought that I'd add that the press represents this as a religious thing between Catholics and Protestants but it's actually a cultural-economic split, and religion is only one aspect. Yep. Religion is the main excuse for that though, sadly. I am quite surprised how little a lot of the Americans on here seem to know about the troubles when it was people in their country who spent thirty odd years bankrolling the Republicans through NORAID...

Lucylastic -> RE: THe protestants and the catholics are still fighting over in NI(as in july 2010) (9/18/2010 6:21:41 AM)
The riot happened as a result of the orange parade, which is definitely based on religion. to say it is economic and political and not religious is honestly Steven naive...in that particular case Here is a list of terrorist activity from the IRA etc in the past three years http://www.joe.ie/news-politics/newsmakers/northern-ireland-ablaze-real-ira-attacks-mount-005364-1 My point in the original thread which boi found so dramatic she had to post it a third time, was that muslim terrorists are not the only ones OUT THERE the fact that it doesnt affect the US so doesnt matter, is blind and frankl pathetic its JUST the troubles..right? as long as it doesnt affect the US. the hilarity over the terrorsts in london being jehovahs witnesses was typical . Ignoring what other terror groups out there exist was my point

Aneirin -> RE: THe protestants and the catholics are still fighting over in NI(as in july 2010) (9/18/2010 6:59:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven Just thought that I'd add that the press represents this as a religious thing between Catholics and Protestants but it's actually a cultural-economic split, and religion is only one aspect. Yep. Religion is the main excuse for that though, sadly. I am quite surprised how little a lot of the Americans on here seem to know about the troubles when it was people in their country who spent thirty odd years bankrolling the Republicans through NORAID... I believe the US attitude to the Northern Ireland troubles was largely due to misplaced notions of ancestry, as if where their ancestors came from was the promised land that they themselves might like to migrate back to at some point, so they will fight as they believe their ancestors fought to free a land from the perceived tyranny of a foreign power by sending wealth generated in the new lands. I believe there is some similarity there with the American Jews and the troubles in and around Israel. So perhaps it has to be asked, what is America, a new land ,made up of those that turned their back on trouble to seek a better future, or is America in reality only a transitory country to be used for the short term until the ideals have been created in the country that is the choice for support. But whilst foreigners aid fighters in other countries, it is just a pity they did not see the actions of their adopted country, for imperialism is not a totally British thing.

DCWoody -> RE: THe protestants and the catholics are still fighting over in NI(as in july 2010) (9/18/2010 7:27:01 AM)
"I believe the US attitude to the Northern Ireland troubles was largely due to misplaced notions of ancestry, as if where their ancestors came from was the promised land that they themselves might like to migrate back to at some point, so they will fight as they believe their ancestors fought to free a land from the perceived tyranny of a foreign power by sending wealth generated in the new lands. I believe there is some similarity there with the American Jews and the troubles in and around Israel." This. And ya OP, it is worth noting that for us Brits terrorism is a mostly christian thing.....though no, I haven't noticed any jehovahs witness bombs.

Jeffff -> RE: THe protestants and the catholics are still fighting over in NI(as in july 2010) (9/18/2010 7:35:32 AM)
Americans often feel a silly pride over their heritage. Gullible Americans can be persuaded to believe anything. That's how NORAID got the money. Edited to add. In all fairness, there were/are Protestant terrorists too.

DCWoody -> RE: THe protestants and the catholics are still fighting over in NI(as in july 2010) (9/18/2010 7:45:33 AM)
Oh aye, one big shitstorm. Chuggers going round an old firm match in Scotland....raising fund for Catholic orphans of the troubles in Celtics area, Protestant orphans in the Rangers fans. Everyone knew there were no orphans...basic tribalism. For Great Britain though, it was catholic stuff that was the definite terrorism (bombing civlilians, rather than gun fights)...because Loyalists weren't (for obvious reasons) bombing the mainland.

Aneirin -> RE: THe protestants and the catholics are still fighting over in NI(as in july 2010) (9/18/2010 7:48:58 AM)
Feeling pride over heritage is a dangerous thing, for one, it separates the person from their immediate enviroment, as if their present location, their ancestors chose undoubtedly for their offspring's offspring etc is not good enough for they secretly yearn to go back. Ireland, the grass is always greener, it rains a lot there, quaint cottages, guinness, leprachauns and quaint coutryside, ceilidhs, ancient history, all the positives that attract the tourist, but what the tourist sees and understands is sometimes very different from the reality of life of those who live there. Human kind is a migratory species, we have all come from somewhere else, but is there any sense in picking a place we might have been at some point and idolising that place as better than where we are now. Or is it an identity thing I wonder.

Jeffff -> RE: THe protestants and the catholics are still fighting over in NI(as in july 2010) (9/18/2010 7:53:14 AM)
I wasn't even thinking of incidents in GB. It seems to me,as an outsider, a shitload of terrorism was perpetrated on Northern Irish soil. Which is kind of GB anyway....... or not.

DCWoody -> RE: THe protestants and the catholics are still fighting over in NI(as in july 2010) (9/18/2010 7:54:21 AM)
"but is there any sense in picking a place we might have been at some point and idolising that place as better than where we are now." I knew a guy who moved to Slough from Cambridge

Jeffff -> RE: THe protestants and the catholics are still fighting over in NI(as in july 2010) (9/18/2010 7:55:59 AM)
Thats' gotta be an inside geography joke. Cambridge always looks nice in pictures.

DCWoody -> RE: THe protestants and the catholics are still fighting over in NI(as in july 2010) (9/18/2010 7:59:53 AM)
The romans named the British Isles, after the various Brit tribes living there, as Greater Britain, and Lesser Britain (bigger and smaller). Great Britain stuck, because it sounds good...Lesser Britain doesn't sound so great, and Ireland was the best alternative they could come up with...

Aneirin -> RE: THe protestants and the catholics are still fighting over in NI(as in july 2010) (9/18/2010 8:00:46 AM)
Slough is a joke, or sluff as we used to call it, dismal place.

pahunkboy -> RE: THe protestants and the catholics are still fighting over in NI(as in july 2010) (9/18/2010 8:01:33 AM)
-- the story is lacking. The IRA is going to go after banksters in the UK. So the timing of this is odd. Ireland is expected to eat alot of the financial collapse loss. Isnt it convenient how divide and conquer works?

DCWoody -> RE: THe protestants and the catholics are still fighting over in NI(as in july 2010) (9/18/2010 8:07:08 AM)
Nope, we haven't hit one of the rare times you make sense. The timing of this is not odd, this stuff is still happening all the time, the IRA aren't going after 'banksters', Ireland was hit hard because they'd taken a fucktonne of loans to fuel their celtic tiger thing (which worked well for some years, even after these hard times they'll still be miles richer than last millenium), and I have no response to your cryptic last sentence.

NorthernGent -> RE: THe protestants and the catholics are still fighting over in NI(as in july 2010) (9/18/2010 8:28:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy -- the story is lacking. The IRA is going to go after banksters in the UK. So the timing of this is odd. Ireland is expected to eat alot of the financial collapse loss. Isnt it convenient how divide and conquer works? Very convenient as you say. Not only is Ireland expected to 'eat a lot of the financial collapse'.....the Queen has instigated a second potato famine through organising a blockade of Irish ports.....so without the potato....all that is left to eat is the financial collapse.

Sanity -> RE: THe protestants and the catholics are still fighting over in NI(as in july 2010) (9/18/2010 8:33:38 AM)
If were going to count one sect picking on another as "terrorism" then the Muslims are far worse terrorists than we had ever imagined, and Saddam Hussein was possibly the worst terrorist who ever lived. quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic The riot happened as a result of the orange parade, which is definitely based on religion. to say it is economic and political and not religious is honestly Steven naive...in that particular case Here is a list of terrorist activity from the IRA etc in the past three years http://www.joe.ie/news-politics/newsmakers/northern-ireland-ablaze-real-ira-attacks-mount-005364-1 My point in the original thread which boi found so dramatic she had to post it a third time, was that muslim terrorists are not the only ones OUT THERE the fact that it doesnt affect the US so doesnt matter, is blind and frankl pathetic its JUST the troubles..right? as long as it doesnt affect the US. the hilarity over the terrorsts in london being jehovahs witnesses was typical . Ignoring what other terror groups out there exist was my point

Aneirin -> RE: THe protestants and the catholics are still fighting over in NI(as in july 2010) (9/18/2010 8:38:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity If were going to count one sect picking on another as "terrorism" then the Muslims are far worse terrorists than we had ever imagined, and Saddam Hussein was possibly the worst terrorist who ever lived. quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic The riot happened as a result of the orange parade, which is definitely based on religion. to say it is economic and political and not religious is honestly Steven naive...in that particular case Here is a list of terrorist activity from the IRA etc in the past three years http://www.joe.ie/news-politics/newsmakers/northern-ireland-ablaze-real-ira-attacks-mount-005364-1 My point in the original thread which boi found so dramatic she had to post it a third time, was that muslim terrorists are not the only ones OUT THERE the fact that it doesnt affect the US so doesnt matter, is blind and frankl pathetic its JUST the troubles..right? as long as it doesnt affect the US. the hilarity over the terrorsts in london being jehovahs witnesses was typical . Ignoring what other terror groups out there exist was my point Who told you that ?

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