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equals? - 4/23/2006 10:06:03 PM

murmur

Posts: 394
Joined: 9/26/2005
Status: offline

After talking with a fews doms here and there...i've been wondering....
I wish to have people's honest answers here...
I personnaly thinks that submissive and dominants should be equals, dont you think? or that, when one choose to become one *beneath* the other, it doesnt mean he becomes *really* beneath him, but only in this state because he chooses so. therefore, the equal thingy is still there.
But i've been talking and asking lots of questions...and a lots of doms would answer me to my question as if :
yeah, you and me are equals right now. but if you were on my collar or if you would be my sub, you would have to answer to my demands and therefore, be beneath me.

but but but...what does that mean?? i believe in the yin and yan thing in a D/s relationship, the *you complete me* thing...not the beneath me thing...or is there differences? is there exceptions?
is a slave *less* worthy then her master only because she surrenders her whole being to him?
personnally, i dont think so!
but, where is the lign here? is *there* a lign?
Does the terms submission means inferiority? or the opposite, as in, dominance = superiority? for a lot of doms, it does seems so....

What do you think?

Post #: 1

RE: equals? - 4/23/2006 10:20:03 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

the beneath me thing is a joke or the person saying it is a total newbee! Experienced people from my expereince know better and know it is a yin yang thing as you put it and do not have a need to pump their ego by trying to lower yours. the beneath me thing is not a healthy situation imo

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to murmur)

Post #: 2

RE: equals? - 4/23/2006 10:23:27 PM

Jasmyn

Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline

I see it as they see it.

_____________________________

quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.

Visit My Website

(in reply to murmur)

Post #: 3

RE: equals? - 4/23/2006 10:38:49 PM

Jasmyn

Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline

quote:

but but but...what does that mean?? i believe in the yin and yan thing in a D/s relationship, the *you complete me* thing...not the beneath me thing...or is there differences? is there exceptions?
is a slave *less* worthy then her master only because she surrenders her whole being to him?
personnally, i dont think so!
but, where is the lign here? is *there* a lign?
Does the terms submission means inferiority? or the opposite, as in, dominance = superiority? for a lot of doms, it does seems so....

Murmur 'you complete me' ... for me, he completes me because of his inferior status in our relationship. That is not the same thing as 'less worthy' as you are equating it too.

_____________________________

quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.

Visit My Website

(in reply to murmur)

Post #: 4

RE: equals? - 4/23/2006 10:49:55 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

I personnaly thinks that submissive and dominants should be equals, dont you think? or that, when one choose to become one *beneath* the other, it doesnt mean he becomes *really* beneath him, but only in this state because he chooses so. therefore, the equal thingy is still there.

I don't see how equality is possible in an M/s relationship. I can't even wrap my brain around the idea.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to murmur)

Post #: 5

RE: equals? - 4/23/2006 10:56:13 PM

NeedToUseYou

Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline

No, a slave isn't equal. The master gains greater control, but gains responsibility for that control. And like any control it comes with it's own stressors and obligations. So, the Master does lose something as well to the slave. The slave get freedom or reduced obligations in some regards, but more responsiblity in other regards. The Master gets freedom in some regards, but less freedom in other regards.

It's really a trading of unwanted obligations for a more desired set of responsibilities.

So, a slave is unequal to a Master in the sense of control,
but a Master has more obligations in that they are ultimately responsible for success and failure.

At least that's how I see it.

Hope that came out right, could be a can of worms, if it didn't

(in reply to murmur)

Post #: 6

RE: equals? - 4/23/2006 11:09:14 PM

MistWalker

Posts: 90
Joined: 4/20/2006
From: Memphis
Status: offline

eqiality.. nope, cant see that.. whil ei understand what your trying to say get across i think anyway.. a slave/sub is not equal in footing to there Dominiet partner.. it simply wouldnt work.. they may be times when one is given an equal footing to speek freely to place there thoughts on the table for a certian situation.. but beyond that, when one submits you let yourself be taken over in many aspects.. you are at the very least deffering to anoters will and wants in your life.doign that you can not be an equal. .. i dont know i cant get the actual thoughts i wanted across in words but the basic thought is in my mind.. equals no way... hell even when im allowed to top i am not Her equal, im in that position only because she allows it..

_____________________________

Alpha in my Mistress's house, bound to her by collar and wedding band.

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)

Post #: 7

RE: equals? - 4/23/2006 11:09:42 PM

Zensee

Posts: 1564
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline

Equal doesn't mean 'the same'. We are all people here. We have different roles is all. Even those who claim to be sub-human or to be supremecists are only that in their own opinions of themselves.

_____________________________

"Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water." (proverb)

(in reply to NeedToUseYou)

Post #: 8

RE: equals? - 4/23/2006 11:13:46 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

Master and I are not equal.

As a slave, my focus is my Master. I am about pleasing him. I am about serving him, and submitting to him in all things (sub = under, btw). My fulfillment comes from submitting to him. I need to submit to him. He fills that need. He provides a place for me to be who I must be.

In turn, he finds fulfillment and enjoyment with my submission. The more deeply I submit, the more power he feels. The more power he exercises, the more deeply I submit. I am his pleasure. He is my need. We are yin and yang, imbalanced if separated.

He inspires me to develop, grow and evolve. In turn, I inspire him to develop, grow and evolve.

A great definition for symbiosis that I saw is: "The ultimate living together of two dissimilar organisms in a mutually beneficial relationship." Is that not where we are...

And if that is the case, while we continue to say D/s and M/s is all about the Master or Dominant, it is ultimately about both, is it not?

This does not, however, make us equals. He leads and I follow. He commands, and I obey. He makes the rules, and I follow them. He is the authority, and I subjugate to him.

Silly cliche' - - It takes two to tango, but only one can lead.

submitOne entry found for submit.

Main Entry: sub·mit

Pronunciation: s&b-'mit
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): sub·mit·ted; sub·mit·ting
Etymology: Middle English submitten, from Latin submittere to lower, submit, from sub- + mittere to send
transitive senses
1 a : to yield to governance or authority SURRENDER b : to permit oneself to be subjected to something
2 : to defer to or consent to abide by the opinion or authority of another

(in reply to murmur)

Post #: 9

RE: equals? - 4/23/2006 11:15:17 PM

Clothespingirl

Posts: 82
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline

Hey there!

There's about a million different permutations of BDSM relationships. You need to just look for someone who wants the kind you want, and pass over the others. It might help if you put the kind of relationship you're looking for, in your profile.

And don't worry about folks saying that what you want "isn't real". It's your relationship, not theirs. You go after what you want and have fun, honey!

_____________________________

"Cheeky bitch"

(in reply to murmur)

Post #: 10

RE: equals? - 4/23/2006 11:19:13 PM

MasterRobsalayna

Posts: 212
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline

If this girl wanted to be equal or in an equal relationship, she would not be a slave. Period. Yes, the yin and yang thing is okay, yes, W/we complement each other very much, but He is in charge. As this girl just said to Him in an email, His word is law and His law is life. Makes sense to this girl anyway.

_____________________________

Master Rob's alayna
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The only thing in life that i regret is living too many days regretting too many things. Life is for the living and i choose to live!

(in reply to murmur)

Post #: 11

RE: equals? - 4/23/2006 11:31:32 PM

ServiceNTucson

Posts: 127
Joined: 4/3/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmyn

Murmur 'you complete me' ... for me, he completes me because of his inferior status in our relationship. That is not the same thing as 'less worthy' as you are equating it too.

Jasmyn, I coudn't have said it better and would have needed at least twice as many words to say it half as well.

_____________________________

Harry

"I find television very educating. Every time somebody turns on the set, I go into the other room and read a book."

Groucho Marx

www.desertdominion.org

(in reply to Jasmyn)

Post #: 12

RE: equals? - 4/23/2006 11:34:29 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

I have read many posts that talk of M/s relationships instead of D/s relationships. These are not the same in the whole equality thing. I am anyone's equal in the fact I am a human being. I am also profoundly superior in some ways to others and profoundly inferior to others in some ways. I can't sing a note for example. No one is completely equal or unequal... We are all just different.

I do not know how I could submit to someone who felt I was inferior...I just couldnt do it

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to MasterRobsalayna)

Post #: 13

RE: equals? - 4/23/2006 11:38:56 PM

ServiceNTucson

Posts: 127
Joined: 4/3/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Clothespingirl

Hey there!

There's about a million different permutations of BDSM relationships. You need to just look for someone who wants the kind you want, and pass over the others. It might help if you put the kind of relationship you're looking for, in your profile.

And don't worry about folks saying that what you want "isn't real". It's your relationship, not theirs. You go after what you want and have fun, honey!

I have to wholeheartedly agree with this too. Equality in an Owner/slave relationship would not possibly work for me. This doesn't mean that it's impossible, just that it's impossible FOR ME.

I'd say there are a lot more than a million different permutations of BDSM relationships. I'd say there are as many as there are people IN BDSM relationships. My advice to the OP is find what works for you and to heck with what anybody else may say about it.

_____________________________

Harry

"I find television very educating. Every time somebody turns on the set, I go into the other room and read a book."

Groucho Marx

www.desertdominion.org

(in reply to Clothespingirl)

Post #: 14

RE: equals? - 4/23/2006 11:43:38 PM

MasterRobsalayna

Posts: 212
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I do not know how I could submit to someone who felt I was inferior...I just couldnt do it

This girl could not do that, either. Master Rob does not see His slave as inferior, if He did, she would not be His slave to begin with! In many ways, His slave is elevated in His eyes BECAUSE of her complete and total "submission" to Him. It takes a strong person to be able to give their all to another. This girl could not imagine a Dom/Master wanting one that is not strong, unless He/She is looking for an easy mark to use and abuse: a doormat. There are those that fulfill that need for each other but this girl and her Master are not of that ilk, and this girl seems to think that most of those on CM are sincere and are looking for true devotion and some, perhaps, even love. The doormats and users are out there, but this girl is glad she is not one of them. End of rant.

_____________________________

Master Rob's alayna
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The only thing in life that i regret is living too many days regretting too many things. Life is for the living and i choose to live!

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 15

RE: equals? - 4/23/2006 11:51:16 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I do not know how I could submit to someone who felt I was inferior...I just couldnt do it

If by inferior you mean its definition of lower degree or rank, then that is what I do, however if you mean its definition of little or less importance or value, I could not do that, either. In fact, I feel more valued and important now in my submission to him than I ever have in my life.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 16

RE: equals? - 4/23/2006 11:52:13 PM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterRobsalayna

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I do not know how I could submit to someone who felt I was inferior...I just couldnt do it

This girl could not do that, either. Master Rob does not see His slave as inferior, if He did, she would not be His slave to begin with! In many ways, His slave is elevated in His eyes BECAUSE of her complete and total "submission" to Him. It takes a strong person to be able to give their all to another. This girl could not imagine a Dom/Master wanting one that is not strong, unless He/She is looking for an easy mark to use and abuse: a doormat. There are those that fulfill that need for each other but this girl and her Master are not of that ilk, and this girl seems to think that most of those on CM are sincere and are looking for true devotion and some, perhaps, even love. The doormats and users are out there, but this girl is glad she is not one of them. End of rant.

I do not for one minute think that your Master does not value you highly.. I am sure he does. You do not have to convince me of this. I did not mean to suggest that M/s relationships are in some way abusive, or that slaves are unequal to their Masters or I mean inferior. I dont know to be honest with you.

In math when something is not equal it is "less than" "or more than".... it is unequal. If something is "less than" then it is inferior in my mind. It may not be inferior in your mind, or in someone else's mind, but in my mind it means "less than". I am not less than anyone. I am exchanging my power, not my humanity. You have to possess power to give it to someone else....

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to MasterRobsalayna)

Post #: 17

RE: equals? - 4/23/2006 11:54:01 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

You are right, Julia. I did say M/s. That's the dynamic I'm in, but I should have said D/s. I guess it still doesn't make sense to me though. If it's D/s how is it equal? Someone said earlier that "equal doesn't mean the same" but that is actually exactly what it means. The same in quantity, quality, size, degree, level. Having the same rights or status. Being equal means being the same.

I agree with you, being human affords you equality as a human being, but we are not talking about your species here, we are speaking of the relationship a member of that species has to another member of that same species. Relationally speaking, equality doesn't seem to fit very well into the D/s picture. Where does the dominance begin in a relationship that is equal?

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 18

RE: equals? - 4/24/2006 12:00:17 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

You are right, Julia. I did say M/s. That's the dynamic I'm in, but I should have said D/s. I guess it still doesn't make sense to me though. If it's D/s how is it equal? Someone said earlier that "equal doesn't mean the same" but that is actually exactly what it means. The same in quantity, quality, size, degree, level. Having the same rights or status. Being equal means being the same.

I agree with you, being human affords you equality as a human being, but we are not talking about your species here, we are speaking of the relationship a member of that species has to another member of that same species. Relationally speaking, equality doesn't seem to fit very well into the D/s picture. Where does the dominance begin in a relationship that is equal?

Celeste

I am supposed to be in bed...LOLOLOL.. but I will bite...

You said yourself that it is "different", therefore how can you compare the two in that way? It is like asking which is greater, hot or cold, soft or gentle? I mean if someone told you they needed a hammer for a nail and a cloth to clean something which would be better for each job? I would not use a hammer to clean with or a cloth to hammer with... they do different things.

You choose to be a slave, no one is forcing this condition on you, you are equal under the law to leave your condition as is anyone else. You choose to live the way you live, it is a choice that you have the right to make... if you were not an equal you could not be in a TPE because you would have no power to exchange. I hope what I am saying makes sense...lol....

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 19

RE: equals? - 4/24/2006 12:08:06 AM

MasterRobsalayna

Posts: 212
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterRobsalayna

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I do not know how I could submit to someone who felt I was inferior...I just couldnt do it

This girl could not do that, either. Master Rob does not see His slave as inferior, if He did, she would not be His slave to begin with! In many ways, His slave is elevated in His eyes BECAUSE of her complete and total "submission" to Him. It takes a strong person to be able to give their all to another. This girl could not imagine a Dom/Master wanting one that is not strong, unless He/She is looking for an easy mark to use and abuse: a doormat. There are those that fulfill that need for each other but this girl and her Master are not of that ilk, and this girl seems to think that most of those on CM are sincere and are looking for true devotion and some, perhaps, even love. The doormats and users are out there, but this girl is glad she is not one of them. End of rant.

I do not for one minute think that your Master does not value you highly.. I am sure he does. You do not have to convince me of this. I did not mean to suggest that M/s relationships are in some way abusive, or that slaves are unequal to their Masters or I mean inferior. I dont know to be honest with you.

In math when something is not equal it is "less than" "or more than".... it is unequal. If something is "less than" then it is inferior in my mind. It may not be inferior in your mind, or in someone else's mind, but in my mind it means "less than". I am not less than anyone. I am exchanging my power, not my humanity. You have to possess power to give it to someone else....

alayna understand the less than = inferior line of thinking. alayna guesses it's just a change in mindset that julia is searching for. Absolutely one must possess power to give it to another. Power exchange is the crux of many D/s and M/s relationships. alayna is not inferior to anyone or anything, even more so now that she is owned. This is certainly an intersting topic and the different points of view and reasonings fascinates this girl. However, she is glad to know where she stands in the eyes of her Master and of herself.

_____________________________

Master Rob's alayna
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The only thing in life that i regret is living too many days regretting too many things. Life is for the living and i choose to live!

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 20

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