RE: True Slavery, a delusional roleplay.

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RE: True Slavery, a delusional roleplay. - 10/1/2010 2:39:07 AM

allthatjaz

Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
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I feel like I am sat on middle ground here.
On the one hand, I completely accept that there are lifestyle slaves and that they are very happy being what they are. I also understand that Master/slave relationships can be extremely successful and that their Mastery or their slavery is very real to them. At the end of the day I suppose that's all that matters.

On the other hand I can't even start to comprehend what is going on in their lives or their heads that could put them in such a mindset but that's only because I have never had the tiniest bit of desire to be a slave or own one. For me personally, lifestyle slavery seems so far removed from reality and perhaps like the op, I am too much of a realist!

Even dominance and submission leaves an unrealistic taste in my mouth sometimes.
When I watch two friends of mine (a vanilla couple) in perfect harmony with her submission and his dominance, the thought occurs to me that these two people are the real thing. Two perfectly matched people living in what we consider a beautiful D/s relationship, without having to join this lifestyle or know anything about it, makes me somewhat envious.

The more I/We have embraced and enjoyed this lifestyle, the nearer we find ourselves heading towards vanilla land. The more we head towards vanilla land, the more real this feels. As a Master and slave that would be a far more difficult thing to do because, where as vanilla people would quietly accept an old fashioned relationship based on leadership qualities within a relationship, they would laugh at a Master/slave role.

Master/slave is a hidden world that is usually only shown within their own home and amongst like minded people. Its a more limiting lifestyle as far as I can see and a lifestyle that invites mockery from the general public.
But just because Master and slave feels unrealistic to me personally, it doesn't make it silly and doesn't make it wrong.

It takes two people to make a happy relationship and so long as they are both doing what they desire, then all is good.

< Message edited by allthatjaz -- 10/1/2010 2:41:16 AM >

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Post #: 161

RE: True Slavery, a delusional roleplay. - 10/1/2010 4:31:44 AM

lally2

Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bravado

While I don't deny the master/slave dynamic can be in many ways real and no doubt very fulfilling, those who insist that they are or their partner is a "true slave," it brings to question the meaning and intent of such a claim. I understand how important it may be to someone's identity, but the I am doubtful to its legitimacy and suspicious of their intent. Or rather, it is quite clear to me that they feel it's something to brag about.

In an awkward and amusing way, the phrase "true slave" seems like some kind of egotistic elitism among a group that you would expect to be more docile.

im pretty sure that most people cringe with the word 'true' - thats why they mess about with it and type 'twue' instead - im pretty sure most of the people here on CM feel similarly to the questionable egotism that the word 'true' implies.

but as a submissive with a tendancy toward enslavement i get mighty tired of people suggesting that by that very definition i consider myself in a higher bracket.

people respond to people in different ways and it is, i think, highly questionable for a person with no sympathy or comprehension of enslavement to question the motives and emotions of a submissive/slave type

you talk about Ms as if its some revolving door through which slave types come and go willy nilly - it is the lack of comprehension on the topic youve chosen that really shows up here.

as for it being a 'role play' - again a misconception that no one but those who live it and breathe it can fully appreciate.

the depth of enslavement that can occur very often does result in slave types staying in situations they probably shouldnt.

no one should be so arrogant as to parrallel themselves with the sex slave trade victims - there is no parrallel. consent is everything in this 'lifestyle' or it would not exist as it does. people would be finding themselves in court and facing long prison sentances and people like you would not have the outlet you have through submissive types like me and others to enjoy because we'd be hiding behind closed doors too scared to venture out. consent protects us and you and gives you freedoms just as much as it gives us.

in enslavement i can assure you that the depth and totallity of TPE is very real and very genuine.

if people want to call themselves true then thats up to them, if they think that separates them for the rest of the herd then thats theyre own absurdity and theyre welcome to themselves. but to say that to have a slave means working them until they drop dead from exhaustion and that anything else is role play and un-real is youre very own truism and youre welcome to that too.

here in the real world Ms and Ds is just another way of loving and expressing that love and is a million miles away from those wretched women snatched from their homes and families and sold for sex to the unwashed and hideous, who likely cant get a woman any other way.

in a way, you are suggesting that we should parrallel ourselves to those women or consider ourselves fake and by that you are suggesting that the Dominant men and women in this 'lifestyle' should have no morals also - to be an amoral asshat is the only 'true' expression of Dominance. is that what youre saying?

the two parts to each Ds and Ms relationship are driven by desire - but this is the real world of course, in youre world maybe things work differently.

< Message edited by lally2 -- 10/1/2010 5:12:24 AM >

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to Bravado)

Post #: 162

RE: True Slavery, a delusional roleplay. - 10/1/2010 5:54:41 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2
im pretty sure that most people cringe with the word 'true' - thats why they mess about with it and type 'twue' instead - im pretty sure most of the people here on CM feel similarly to the questionable egotism that the word 'true' implies.

but as a submissive with a tendancy toward enslavement i get mighty tired of people suggesting that by that very definition i consider myself in a higher bracket.

you talk about Ms as if its some revolving door through which slave types come and go willy nilly - it is the lack of comprehension on the topic youve chosen that really shows up here.

as for it being a 'role play' - again a misconception that no one but those who live it and breathe it can fully appreciate.

in enslavement i can assure you that the depth and totallity of TPE is very real and very genuine.

This was a great post, lally. I trimmed only because I know the length here is going to be a bit much.

I think you are hitting the nail on the head with the above. In some instances, people are very hung up on the words "true" and "real". Oddly enough, not because they aren't correct in definition when they are used. Most often, it seems to come because the words have been used to attack the validity of another person's perception of experience. Somewhere along the line, the all too common "you're not a true slave" in too many condescending, manipulative, and hurtful ways to the point where people tend to see that as the automatic 'better than you' stance that you mention above. In almost a retaliation sense, folks started with the changing of the spelling (twue and weal) as something of a way to challenge the use of the words as almost a preemptive strike against the tired, old line that had been heard all too often.

Like other words that I could use for example, we've used it in such a way that we have an automatic negative context associated with it's use. The definition itself doesn't include that. It's only what we've created. I'm putting the definition from Webster's here to illustrate the point.

When I say "we" in the above, I'm not referring to a phenomenon that is universal in society, or even amongst those of us involved in BDSM. In My experience, this is solely attributed to the realm of the internet. The concept can cross over from one to the other, but the roots of it come from online. I never even heard the bastardization of the word "twue" until I found it here. I don't come across it in the BDSM community and if I do, it's based on a discussion that was had on the net. It's purpose only being a knee jerk reaction to what has been created.

Definition of TRUE

1a : steadfast, loyal b : honest, just c archaic : truthful

2a (1) : being in accordance with the actual state of affairs <true description> (2) : conformable to an essential reality

(3) : fully realized or fulfilled <dreams come true> b : ideal, essential c : being that which is the case rather than what is manifest or assumed <the true dimension of the problem> d : consistent <true to character>
3a : properly so called <true love> <the true faith> <the true stomach of ruminant mammals> b (1) : possessing the basic characters of and belonging to the same natural group as <a whale is a true but not a typical mammal> (2) : typical <the true cats>

4: legitimate, rightful <our true and lawful king>
5a : that is fitted or formed or that functions accurately b : conformable to a standard or pattern : accurate
6: determined with reference to the earth's axis rather than the magnetic poles <true north>
7: logically necessary
8: narrow, strict <in the truest sense>
9: corrected for error — true·ness noun

Looking at the definition itself, the word is absolutely appropriate within the M/s context. I don't think anyone on the thread is saying it's an equivilant to the example of Nigerian slaves sold used in the original. Yet, for many of us, it is accurate within a dynamic. There are a number of uses for the definition above that could very easily be interchanged with the word "true" and be a very good description to the way we have interpreted our experiences.

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(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 163

RE: True Slavery, a delusional roleplay. - 10/1/2010 9:04:44 AM

AlwaysLisa

Posts: 1088
Joined: 10/6/2006
From: Washington State
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Hey, I know that guy.

To the OP.... 5 pages of the same old argument...sub vs slave and there can be no such thing because I say so.

Why? Did someone from this site pee in your cornflakes after telling you she was a pure, honest, dyed in the wool slave? It happens. I don't understand what you will gain from coming here to chastise everyone and enlighten them in the errors of their ways.

I think after 5 pages, it's gone beyond popcorn, I'm going for margarita's.

Lisa

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Post #: 164

RE: True Slavery, a delusional roleplay. - 10/1/2010 10:29:19 AM

LadyNTrainer

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Joined: 5/20/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bravado
CaringandReal, what do you feel about someone declaring themselves a slave or a "true slave" when they are single and searching for a partner? The latter certainly seems even more silly, wouldn't you agree?

I would suspect that they are either being silly, or doing their innocent best to differentiate themselves from the selfish, using, abusing, do-me fetishist bottoms who abound in the scene. I've run into both usages fairly frequently in our community, the latter actually more often than the former.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Bravado)

Post #: 165

RE: True Slavery, a delusional roleplay. - 10/1/2010 12:00:58 PM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
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I doubt that anyone here would question that there are true honest to God traditional slaves being shipped and sold in and from some third world countries. Again i would have to say that similar forms of slavery exist with the human traffickers and especially from the countries from the old Soviet block into other western countries including the UK. It is on record that some degrees of human slave traffic happens here from Asia. In these cases girls are placed in bondage working in either sweat shops or as prostitutes to pay off the huge snake-heads charge for transporting the illegal, immigrants into a new country.

In another vein, talk a walk through many of the poorer areas or red light districts and see how many girls are slaves to a strict master (pimp) and/or to an even stricter mistress -- the needle filled with heroin or a crack pipe. These are just as much slaves as are those in the more historical scene. People can be programmed and as any psychologist can attest, this is another was to enslave someone. look at the programming which was d0one my Jim Jones and some other cults.

As for slavery in a M/s relationship (with or without BDSM) being nothing but mere role-play, I have to say that most people and certainly in the western world. role-play regularly, for some it is a part of daily life and even necessary for business. So 3what is role play? Outside recreation and entertainment, the role-player is simply showing another aspect of their character which is hoped to be found most appealing. As far as the M/s lifestyle situations, the terms slave and master/Mistress are nothing but convenient labels which by common usage within this sub culture relate to specific roles different people have adopted and are mostly a genuine part of their natural character brought out by being in a dynamic with the right person.

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(in reply to LadyNTrainer)

Post #: 166

RE: True Slavery, a delusional roleplay. - 10/1/2010 2:20:44 PM

CaringandReal

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Joined: 2/15/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bravado

The first paragraph of your post is a wonderful explanation as to how it can be misused or misleading, which is part of the reason for this thread.

CaringandReal, what do you feel about someone declaring themselves a slave or a "true slave" when they are single and searching for a partner? The latter certainly seems even more silly, wouldn't you agree?

No, it isn't. It's a compassionate description of all-too-human individuals and why they do the things they do. Any word can be misued or misleading. The fact that you focus so intensely on just two words "true slave," suggests an obession, a fetish, or maybe an axe to grind.

I asked you a question first. Answering my question with a question suggests you are uncomfortable with what I asked and are trying to avoid answering it. That's quite Ok, people do that to me all the time. But don't blame me for my opinion of you for not answering directly.

_____________________________

"A friend who bleeds is better" --placebo

"How seldom we recognize the sound when the bolt of our fate slides home." --thomas harris

(in reply to Bravado)

Post #: 167

RE: True Slavery, a delusional roleplay. - 10/1/2010 4:14:58 PM

Bravado

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allthatjaz, I would dare to say that it is in the nature of human beings to conform to social norms given no outstanding reason to stay loyal to obscurity. It could be that the novelty is wearing off, you that you get all that you want without need of BDSM, or both. Or it could be that there's a lot you both want to do together in life that just wouldn't make sense between a master and a slave. Who knows? Not me! Best of luck to you anyhow!

lally2, an issue you touched upon is how perhaps those that identify themselves as "true slaves" do so to distance themselves from those that claim to be slaves but possess fewer qualities that make it a meaningful or accurate description. It's interesting that by doing so, they bring themselves closer to a wealth of human history in which slavery was not something people chose because it feels good. In my opinion, "slave" fit well enough, in a BDSM context, and even though there were those who made the term meaningless, it had a meaning that could be understood. In an effort to create a distinction between those that held strong to principles they felt were essential to a more genuine slave, they began to use the word "true," but in doing so only made it the new cool thing for fetishists who are less serious about the lifestyle to adopt and apply. Thus we have a double-murder: First, the word "slave" was made less meaningful, and as a consequence, the word "true" became no more than a superficial accessory. In the year 2015 we'll have people identifying themselves as "genuine slaves" or "super legit slaves" and those too will eventually mean nothing.

To what end does it concern me? Well, I obviously enjoy the discussion. What's more is that I feel as though people do confuse themselves and each other with words in circumstances like this, and it's a worthy subject for discussion. As though multiple pages in a few days wasn't any example of that!

LadyNTrainer, perhaps you at least recognize how I feel about the issue. It's not upsetting so much as it is at least annoying and silly. If it wasn't for the fact that these people are telling you and me about how real they are, then I don't think I'd have any reason to complain. Then again, I love to complain, whether or not I have a reason.

CaringandReal, if you had asked me a question it was either uninteresting or assumed to be rhetorical. I focus on two words because, oddly enough, this thread is specifically dedicated to them, and therefore it would be strange for me to introduce a different topic entirely in the midst of all this discussion. I hope that makes sense to you. Really, I do.

(in reply to CaringandReal)

Post #: 168

RE: True Slavery, a delusional roleplay. - 10/2/2010 6:07:32 AM

CaringandReal

Posts: 1397
Joined: 2/15/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bravado

CaringandReal, if you had asked me a question it was either uninteresting or assumed to be rhetorical. I focus on two words because, oddly enough, this thread is specifically dedicated to them, and therefore it would be strange for me to introduce a different topic entirely in the midst of all this discussion. I hope that makes sense to you. Really, I do.

It does and it doesn't make sense to me. Your words don't make much sense as they are not responsive to what I said (they give a semblence of response, but I don't pay a lot of attention to semblences). The reasons I encounter such words, however, usually make perfect sense to me.

"Uninteresting" is something I usually find very interesting, at least in this context.

What sinks to the bottom in this exchange, for me, is that you seemed to avoid my questions earlier by mirroring them with two other questions. As I implied above, I see that as an attempt to steer a conversation into only those areas that one, for whatever reason, wants it steered into. When others do such things in this context (message board exploration of ideas), I start to wonder.

I'll try again. I don't like to give up on something worth exploring. These are non-rhetorical questions that I was curious to know your answers to:

Would it bother you if somebody called themselves a "good slave?" Or even a "most excellent slave?" And now, I'll add another. (consider it "interest," lol:) Why or why not? As I said before, I will be happy to answer your questions once you have answered mine--unless you meant yours rhetorical in the way you may have thought mine were? If so, let me know. I'm rather literal-minded and often do not see such distinctions clearly. If you just do not want to answer them, that is also fine, granted you don't mind my taking an interest in that fact. ;)

_____________________________

"A friend who bleeds is better" --placebo

"How seldom we recognize the sound when the bolt of our fate slides home." --thomas harris

(in reply to Bravado)

Post #: 169

RE: True Slavery, a delusional roleplay. - 10/2/2010 11:13:58 AM

GettinitRUFF

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Joined: 8/12/2010
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I didnt read all the posts. I thought it was a good question. Nothing wrong with someone asking a question they feel sincere about. And then all the following posts are talking shit to him, well I understood what Bravado's point is. And I dont agree with degrading him about asking- whether hes right or wrong. The point is what do YOU think. Not "Hey fuck you for asking"

(in reply to CaringandReal)

Post #: 170

RE: True Slavery, a delusional roleplay. - 10/2/2010 12:45:10 PM

Twoshoes

Posts: 1218
Joined: 7/27/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GettinitRUFF
And then all the following posts are talking shit to him, well I understood what Bravado's point is. And I dont agree with degrading him about asking- whether hes right or wrong.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bravado
Today is your lucky day! I won't even charge by the hour for all the semantic-swinging and hypothetical arguments that will ensue.

He got exactly what he was asking for.

I actually kinda like him cause he's funny. (Despite the fact that his ring finger is obviously longer than his index finger.)

(in reply to GettinitRUFF)

Post #: 171

RE: True Slavery, a delusional roleplay. - 10/2/2010 1:27:19 PM

tiemeupngag

Posts: 2
Joined: 10/2/2010
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lol ^^^ point taken

( this is gettinitruff)

< Message edited by tiemeupngag -- 10/2/2010 1:29:29 PM >

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Post #: 172

RE: True Slavery, a delusional roleplay. - 10/2/2010 3:11:13 PM

lally2

Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bravado
lally2, an issue you touched upon is how perhaps those that identify themselves as "true slaves" do so to distance themselves from those that claim to be slaves but possess fewer qualities that make it a meaningful or accurate description. It's interesting that by doing so, they bring themselves closer to a wealth of human history in which slavery was not something people chose because it feels good. In my opinion, "slave" fit well enough, in a BDSM context, and even though there were those who made the term meaningless, it had a meaning that could be understood. In an effort to create a distinction between those that held strong to principles they felt were essential to a more genuine slave, they began to use the word "true," but in doing so only made it the new cool thing for fetishists who are less serious about the lifestyle to adopt and apply. Thus we have a double-murder: First, the word "slave" was made less meaningful, and as a consequence, the word "true" became no more than a superficial accessory. In the year 2015 we'll have people identifying themselves as "genuine slaves" or "super legit slaves" and those too will eventually mean nothing.

To what end does it concern me? Well, I obviously enjoy the discussion. What's more is that I feel as though people do confuse themselves and each other with words in circumstances like this, and it's a worthy subject for discussion. As though multiple pages in a few days wasn't any example of that!

as Lady Pact said, such differentiation is only ( of questionable value to those that use it) on the net. i have never met a submissive or slave-type call themselves 'true' in real life. in real life the litmus test is real life and no amount of declarations on being true, super true or genuinely superb is going to cut them slack if they dont walk the walk. talking the talk on the net is all too easy, as many from both sides of the kneel will testify - far too many dominant types declaring their 'trueness' too by the way.

for myself ive slid away from internet dating for the simple reason that there is far too much self declaration based on very little actual fact - its possible that by 2015 the true BDSM, Ds and Ms folk will be using the net less and less as it becomes more and more bogged down by interneteese and people who talk the talk but dont walk the walk.

< Message edited by lally2 -- 10/2/2010 3:14:29 PM >

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to Bravado)

Post #: 173

RE: True Slavery, a delusional roleplay. - 10/2/2010 4:50:14 PM

lally2

Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2
for myself ive slid away from internet dating for the simple reason that there is far too much self declaration based on very little actual fact - its possible that by 2015 the true BDSM, Ds and Ms folk will be using the net less and less as it becomes more and more bogged down by interneteese and people who talk the talk but dont walk the walk.

Disclaimer: !! - ive just re-read that and it was not meant to imply in any way that i consider myself 'true' in any way at all, whatsoever!! -

edited to add smiley

< Message edited by lally2 -- 10/2/2010 4:51:57 PM >

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 174

RE: True Slavery, a delusional roleplay. - 10/3/2010 8:33:41 AM

txurinal

Posts: 209
Joined: 9/26/2009
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Slavery is illegal in this and most other countries. One human cannot legally own another. And one person cannot legally consent to becoming a slave as, once again, slavery is illegal.

Now i have been fortunate enough in my lifetime to actually live in a 24/7 MASTER/slave relationship. i consdered myself and conducted myself at all times as a slave.

Some of the rules i followed were being a full time housekeeper. Sleeping on the floor and never allowed on furniture. Having to ask permission to leave the house (except for going to work). Having to ask permission to use the bathroom. Eating meals from a bowl on the floor. Not allowed to touch genitals except for bathing and no masturbation or orgasm without explicit permission. Offering 50% of my paycheck to my MASTERS.

These were just a part of what i "consented" to and there was absolutely no legal way for me to agree to this or no legal way for me to be forced to do these things. But this time was one of the most content i ever expereinced in my life. i was grateful to have every decision no matter how small made for me.

"Slavery" is different from submission and i am sure many slaves are only that while role playing in a fantasy situation. Being a 24/7 slave meant i was always role playing and the session never ended. And it was role playing

There are some MASTERS/MISTRESSES who have drawn up slavery contracts and there are those who have signed them. These are not worth the paper they are printed on as they are in no way legally binding. There are legal ways one could control a slave's finances but that would involve powers of attorney or other methods. 50% of my paycheck went to my MASTERS yet there was no legal reason or compulsion for me to offer what i considered tribute except that i wanted to do it. i suppose we could have come up with a document asking for a certain dollar amount as rent since i lived in THEIR home and perhaps that would be a legally enforcable arrangement.

Obviously had slavery been legal, i would not be writing this now as a former and now unowned slave. Slavery is role play and some of us are suited to playing that role consistently and without interruption

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 175

RE: True Slavery, a delusional roleplay. - 10/3/2010 2:24:10 PM

lally2

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Joined: 4/16/2009
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txurinal - i respect youre feelings on how slavery affects you or has affected you but to say that because it is youre experience it is therefore everyones experience is wrong.

i do not do role play on any level my head just wont allow it and my submission would not function.

everyone is different.

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to txurinal)

Post #: 176

RE: True Slavery, a delusional roleplay. - 10/3/2010 3:00:52 PM

txurinal

Posts: 209
Joined: 9/26/2009
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lally2, apologize if i was not clear. my post was only meant to reflect how it.affected me and was not meant to place others in the same category. my posts are strictly based only on my own experiences as i cannot speak for or imagine any others situation

most humbly

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 177

RE: True Slavery, a delusional roleplay. - 10/3/2010 3:04:42 PM

txurinal

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Joined: 9/26/2009
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lally2, i apologze if i in anyway implied that my experience was anything but unique to myself. It was not my intention to generalize as i can only speak for myself and in no way was trying to say my experiences were any shared by others. i can only speak for myself and when i post, it is purely from my own rather limited standpoint.

most humbly

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 178

RE: True Slavery, a delusional roleplay. - 10/3/2010 3:05:01 PM

lally2

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Joined: 4/16/2009
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not a problemo

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to txurinal)

Post #: 179

RE: True Slavery, a delusional roleplay. - 10/3/2010 3:26:10 PM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
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~fast reply~

So after 9 pages, I find myself still wondering whether I'm delusional or not.

OK, more seriously, I don't actually know of any REAL LIFE couple in a REAL relationship (I'm going to define "real" as "the kind of relationship where you can smell your partner") who spends much time worrying about whether they are a "true" slave.. or any other kind of label for that matter. I know that there are parallels between my relationship and various segments in historical slavery. I know that I very much view Carol as if I'd bought her off the block and then fell in love with her (or vice versa). I know that I could go into long discussions on what the word "slave" means, exactly and what the word "ownership" means. But honestly, none of that is terribly interesting because my actual reality lives in my actual living room. We are what we are.

I could press a compelling argument that Carol is my slave in the historical sense (if you add love into that mix -- which HAD to happen at least now and again). But such arguments are of the "angels on pinheads" variety. I have pressed them in the past here on the internet. I cannot imagine myself seriously entertaining such a discussion in a real life venue. I've NEVER heard any such discussion at a MAST meeting.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to lally2)

Post #: 180

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All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: True Slavery, a delusional roleplay.

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