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RE: Is Love Inconvenient? - 2/4/2011 4:51:41 PM   
WinsomeDefiance


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

... Unfortunately, I doubt you will understand what I just said. ...


You doubt a woman can understand the concept of nesting? How very odd.

Do you intend to imply that those who follow your posts are too dense to connect your thought processes on their own? Either that, or you lack confidence in your own eloquence and ability to make the connections concisely and clearly. I doubt it is the latter, since you seem quite pleased with your own personal writing style.

(in reply to BenevolentM)
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RE: Is Love Inconvenient? - 2/4/2011 7:48:23 PM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance
quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

... Unfortunately, I doubt you will understand what I just said. ...


You doubt a woman can understand the concept of nesting? How very odd.

Do you intend to imply that those who follow your posts are too dense to connect your thought processes on their own? Either that, or you lack confidence in your own eloquence and ability to make the connections concisely and clearly. I doubt it is the latter, since you seem quite pleased with your own personal writing style.


Unfortunately, you've set yourself up for this one, "I didn't know women were that sensitive."

(in reply to WinsomeDefiance)
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RE: Is Love Inconvenient? - 2/4/2011 7:55:01 PM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM


Unfortunately, you've set yourself up for this one, "I didn't know women were that sensitive."


I should be offended by the inference I'm a sensitive woman? Or am I to be embarassed for you, by your lack of insight? Please do enlighten me.

(in reply to BenevolentM)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Is Love Inconvenient? - 2/4/2011 9:04:34 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		I'm having trouble working out what BenevolentM is carrying on about in relationship with the OP of "Is Love Inconvenient)? It does appear that for a number of folk, they equate the collar as representing more than ownership (depending if you are sub or slave). One of the problems for those dominants who are already married or in a significant relationship that so many sub/slaves appear to be searching for a BF or life partner. I prefer to see such things as being different to the search for a collared relationship dynamic which a Dominant who can meet the needs of the sub/slave BDSM wise. Similarly, there is also a difference between the sub/slave seeking a love based relationship compared to one which allows the service/domestic seeking lass or lad. I may love a slave girl in my collar, but that pales beside the love I have for my wife with whom I am in  love with. So I say that love is decidedly inconvenient, and when it interferes with a collar I than say: "Bahhh! Humbug!!!!!!"


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to WinsomeDefiance)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Is Love Inconvenient? - 2/4/2011 10:08:40 PM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline 		Putting these two posts side-by-side whose seems more intelligent? It seems to me that IronBear has more to say whereas WinsomeDefiance is sensitive and confused. Am I cruel to point this out or is she cruel? She isn't generous. IronBear though not generous is at least mostly neutral. I doubt either have feelings for me. WinsomeDefiance on the other hand seems to me to be more likely to hate me for just being me. Of course, what do I know? Is this a feminine thing or am I just being sexist? What does my truth meter tell me?

quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

I should be offended by the inference I'm a sensitive woman? Or am I to be embarassed for you, by your lack of insight? Please do enlighten me.


quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

I'm having trouble working out what BenevolentM is carrying on about in relationship with the OP of "Is Love Inconvenient)? It does appear that for a number of folk, they equate the collar as representing more than ownership (depending if you are sub or slave). One of the problems for those dominants who are already married or in a significant relationship that so many sub/slaves appear to be searching for a BF or life partner. I prefer to see such things as being different to the search for a collared relationship dynamic which a Dominant who can meet the needs of the sub/slave BDSM wise. Similarly, there is also a difference between the sub/slave seeking a love based relationship compared to one which allows the service/domestic seeking lass or lad. I may love a slave girl in my collar, but that pales beside the love I have for my wife with whom I am in  love with. So I say that love is decidedly inconvenient, and when it interferes with a collar I than say: "Bahhh! Humbug!!!!!!"


Want my opinion? A lot of women because they are women feel they have the right to lie. Us men have got to get some self-respect. This sort of behavior isn't healthy for them or us.

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Is Love Inconvenient? - 2/4/2011 10:27:38 PM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

Want my opinion? A lot of women because they are women feel they have the right to lie. Us men have got to get some self-respect. This sort of behavior isn't healthy for them or us.


I don't hate you. Not at all. Why would I? In fact, I understand it is easier for you to deflect, than to answer my questions, however - I would love for you to explain to me the correlation you made between my questions, and your statement that women feel they have the right to lie.

Feel free to quote yourself as much as you feel is necessary to make your point. Or, are you simply continuing on with your avoidance and deflection?


WinD

(in reply to BenevolentM)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Is Love Inconvenient? - 2/4/2011 10:56:18 PM   
Palliata


Posts: 371
Joined: 8/9/2010
Status: offline 		Undoubtedly it is inconvenient - it limits your options and there's no way around that. What you have to ask yourself is whether the upside i worth it. Most would say it is.

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RE: Is Love Inconvenient? - 2/5/2011 12:31:30 AM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance
quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

Want my opinion? A lot of women because they are women feel they have the right to lie. Us men have got to get some self-respect. This sort of behavior isn't healthy for them or us.


I don't hate you. Not at all. Why would I? In fact, I understand it is easier for you to deflect, than to answer my questions, however - I would love for you to explain to me the correlation you made between my questions, and your statement that women feel they have the right to lie.

Feel free to quote yourself as much as you feel is necessary to make your point. Or, are you simply continuing on with your avoidance and deflection?

WinD


What you are presenting are labels, keywords. Stuff that's good on a resume. It is helping you to avoid a cruel reality concerning the sort of person you are and the state of your soul, but do not feel that you are alone. Your kind are legion. Hence, you are not a diamond.

(in reply to WinsomeDefiance)
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RE: Is Love Inconvenient? - 2/5/2011 12:44:31 AM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

What you are presenting are labels, keywords. Stuff that's good on a resume. It is helping you to avoid a cruel reality concerning the sort of person you are and the state of your soul, but do not feel that you are alone. Your kind are legion. Hence, you are not a diamond.


Well ok then, guess you are sticking to the deflection and avoidance route.

Since this isn't getting us anywhere - I'll just wish you well and end any pretense at commuication.

Be Well
WinD

(in reply to BenevolentM)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Is Love Inconvenient? - 2/5/2011 1:07:19 AM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Palliata

Undoubtedly it is inconvenient - it limits your options and there's no way around that. What you have to ask yourself is whether the upside i worth it. Most would say it is.


Objectively, all I have is heart ache. So what good is love? What I have is a bit more subjective. Your emphasis is on the objective. Among other things, I have self-respect. I cannot see how anyone could respect themselves if they are unable to love. It was my passage into manhood. I am a man because I have loved.

(in reply to Palliata)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Is Love Inconvenient? - 2/5/2011 1:19:01 AM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

Well ok then, guess you are sticking to the deflection and avoidance route.

Since this isn't getting us anywhere - I'll just wish you well and end any pretense at commuication.

Be Well
WinD


Not at all. If your goal is communication, then message me privately. You came to me with a chip on your shoulder. Do not toy with me. Do you want all my words to be true or would you prefer them not to be?

(in reply to WinsomeDefiance)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Is Love Inconvenient? - 2/5/2011 12:27:50 PM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline 		I think someone should respond to what IronBear wrote.

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

I'm having trouble working out what BenevolentM is carrying on about in relationship with the OP of "Is Love Inconvenient)? It does appear that for a number of folk, they equate the collar as representing more than ownership (depending if you are sub or slave). One of the problems for those dominants who are already married or in a significant relationship that so many sub/slaves appear to be searching for a BF or life partner. I prefer to see such things as being different to the search for a collared relationship dynamic which a Dominant who can meet the needs of the sub/slave BDSM wise. Similarly, there is also a difference between the sub/slave seeking a love based relationship compared to one which allows the service/domestic seeking lass or lad. I may love a slave girl in my collar, but that pales beside the love I have for my wife with whom I am in  love with. So I say that love is decidedly inconvenient, and when it interferes with a collar I than say: "Bahhh! Humbug!!!!!!"


In my experience and I do have some experience though perhaps not as nearly as much as some of you, a relationship involving more than one female can be challenging. What IronBear has to say strikes me as pragmatic. Why? Inevitably there will be real or perceived inequalities. One female will become jealous of another, for example. I can see how starting out the relationship with a profound inequality, then enforcing it keeps a lid on these sorts of problems. Everyone understands their role. It's like building a bridge I suppose where the engineers worked out in advance that if the bridge should fail, how it will fail is at least predictable; the wife stays, the collar goes.

I, on the other hand, will regard my females as equal. This places a greater demand on my females to be moral. As I see it IronBear's approach places fewer such demands, less weight on the weight bearing columns. With IronBear's approach if a collar has a problem with whatever, she can be shown the door because its all clear. With my approach no one is going to be shown the door unless it is out of necessity. IronBear can say whereas I cannot to a female, your objection is inconvenient, here is the door. It is simple and IronBear is powerful in much the same way that stone is hard, but I am water. In time even the mountains will yield to me. My females must strive for an ideal which means I'm a slave driver who is more than willing to make them completely miserable for the sake of achieving those ideals.

Weak females need not apply. On this point I suspect IronBear and I both agree. I base this conclusion on IronBear's name which suggests that he values American Indian culture and it is my understanding, though this is a generalization of course, that American Indians have an appreciation for strong females.

(in reply to IronBear)
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RE: Is Love Inconvenient? - 2/5/2011 1:07:25 PM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

You doubt a woman can understand the concept of nesting?


No, that was not on my mind. My understanding is deep. It is extremely unlikely that your understanding is deep. I did not wish to digress so I cut to the chase. You assume that all that I have on my mind is what women can or cannot grasp. I'll put it this way, I look forward to being pleasantly surprised. That said, it isn't on the forefront of my mind either. You are being much too suspicious.

In another thread "Value of Poetry" in All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Gorean Lifestyles located at http://www.collarchat.com/m_3552515/tm.htm this dreadful person went on about generosity. Generosity on your part is in order, but I'll have to explain something else before I can say what I want to say here. In that thread I wrote "Logic has bounds and meters." The people I am confronting have a shallow understanding of logic. They really haven't spent much time studying it. As I see it you are being shallow too, but in another way. Logic is not all powerful and not everything falls under the umbrella of logic. Most things in life don't. Some things do. This was my intended segue for the title of the thread "Value of Poetry". Poetry can take you to that place that logic cannot. I'll have to repost this there. After the discipline of logic comes the discipline of poetry. Call that a thesis.

By asking for generosity I'm not making an appeal to logic. I'm making an appeal to civility. You, as in the generic you, want civility, but I see no evidence that you are willing to give it. It is all about what I can do for you and not what you can do for me. I'm turning the tables, but in doing so I am encouraging you to return to your true self. The what men owe women, for example, is worn out. It does not encourage civility. It does, but in a manner that is hollow. It is Luciferian according to the less than complimentary connotation. What I'm saying is that at its foundation is a lie. I'm not interested in that paradigm. I don't want anything to do with it. I find it sickening. I don't want lies. I think it is fair to say that we both don't really want that.

Revision History

There was a problem with the BBCode that I needed to fix.

< Message edited by BenevolentM -- 2/5/2011 1:13:13 PM >

(in reply to WinsomeDefiance)
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RE: Is Love Inconvenient? - 2/6/2011 1:24:04 AM   
littlekitten1


Posts: 160
Status: offline 		*butts in*


For me, love is what drives me to submit to my guy =) It's just that simple. I mean, if it wasn't for the love, I'd probably still submit. But I wouldn't have that extra drive that makes me push myself. We're both a bit too emotionally addicted to each other x_x

(in reply to Prinsexx)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Is Love Inconvenient? - 2/6/2011 1:39:07 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Thank you BM. My name was given me by my Lakota Blood Brother's Father.My original Gorean mentors are indeed native American. My choice of women favours strong women who can act independently. Micro-management is not my forte`. As a matter of principle, I explain the relationships in my home at the first meeting and explain that anyone trying to surplant my wife who is the Mistress of Bruin Cottage, is shown the door with no ifs or buts. However any potential member of the home also understands it is a Poly home too, which is why all members of the house have a say regarding the introduction  of a new member (staff). Not rocket science and far simpler to manage/organize that a merc/body guard team comprising different nationalities, ethnic beliefs and religions as well as genders.


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to BenevolentM)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Is Love Inconvenient? - 2/6/2011 2:51:35 AM   
TotalDiscipline


Posts: 225
Joined: 5/5/2010
Status: offline 		Addition to what I previously typed in this thread.

Yesterday I visited my best friend and slave girl.
Love makes me see the human..not just the slave. Meaning....for me in person..I am better in making judgements because.
( little hard to express in english..what I mean..but I hope..it comes accross)

(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Is Love Inconvenient? - 2/6/2011 6:10:20 AM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

I'm having trouble working out what BenevolentM is carrying on about in relationship with the OP of "Is Love Inconvenient)? It does appear that for a number of folk, they equate the collar as representing more than ownership (depending if you are sub or slave). One of the problems for those dominants who are already married or in a significant relationship that so many sub/slaves appear to be searching for a BF or life partner. I prefer to see such things as being different to the search for a collared relationship dynamic which a Dominant who can meet the needs of the sub/slave BDSM wise. Similarly, there is also a difference between the sub/slave seeking a love based relationship compared to one which allows the service/domestic seeking lass or lad. I may love a slave girl in my collar, but that pales beside the love I have for my wife with whom I am in  love with. So I say that love is decidedly inconvenient, and when it interferes with a collar I than say: "Bahhh! Humbug!!!!!!"


I tend to agree only because I can see it from your point of view (and everyone is entitled to that). But I cannot imagine being in love with a husband and having a sub or slave who is collared to me outside of that primary relationship.
I guess I am saying I want it ALL rolled into one person because I have tried (goodness knows how I have tried) to do it other ways and it has never worked.
I guess the easiest question to ask should be at the geginning of a relationship of any sort and that is: what do you want. And I think that is important as a dominant woman to ask BEFORE there is any transferance of sovereignty.
My understanding of this has come from being in the submissive position myself. And perhaps also my experience of my own wishes to be loved as well as the play and sensations I was consenting to.
Unless I now own someone who wants it all and can himself understand, within himself, the balance between being loved and being an object of ownership, then I'm afraid I am not interested.
And yes that's inconvenient but as a matriarch it was my experience that love and authority as a mother was a balancing act I pulled off as near as perfectly every day that the little ones grew.
I think the key is that the love is unconditional and then of course it sits very conveniently with what ever other forms are inherent within the relationship.


_____________________________

Owner of asterion

Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
Free woman
Resident thread finisher
To my stalker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

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Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Is Love Inconvenient? - 2/6/2011 8:31:01 AM   
osf


Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
Status: offline 		we need to help mr b get in touch with his feminine side

_____________________________

all around nice guy and creative misogynist

i'm not very skilled so i just hit harder

i want a woman to make into the woman she never wanted to become

(in reply to Prinsexx)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Is Love Inconvenient? - 2/6/2011 2:00:32 PM   
BenevolentM


Posts: 3394
Joined: 11/15/2006
Status: offline 		My thread that I spoke of earlier "Value of Poetry" was moved to All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Polls and Other Random Stupidity.

(in reply to osf)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Is Love Inconvenient? - 2/8/2011 11:00:53 PM   
Zevar


Posts: 801
Status: offline 		FR:

Expressing love when everything within is protesting for selfishness is when love appears to be likened to being inconvenient, as in causing or involving difficulties, unwanted extra effort, work, or trouble due to choosing to love rather than not.

Love demands much from whomever claims to be willing to express love in the face of the issues that common daily life presents when relating with others. Nonetheless, inconvenient or not choosing love is the higher road and one I tend to choose to tread more often than not, regardless of the demands.

Personal experience has proven the other side of inconvenient brings rewards unspeakable, saturated with noteworthy goodness that I have come to genuinely value. Hard work produces great rewards.

Take Care!

(in reply to BenevolentM)
Profile   Post #: 120
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