What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense?

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense?

Page: [1] 2 3 4 5 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense? - 3/1/2011 2:38:49 PM

jlf1961

Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

quote:

The Second Amendment
As passed by the Congress:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

As ratified by the States:

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

If you notice, the 2nd Amendment does not specify what kind of arms one can or cannot own, therefore, you should have the legal right to own whatever type of firearm you want, up to and including automatic and burst fire weapons.

Under the law, anything that disqualifies you as a voter or juror prevents you from owning a gun.

Now, I have a hard time believing that career criminals have obtained guns from a licensed dealer or sporting goods store.

Now I am a democrat but I believe in the right to keep and use firearms. I enjoy hunting, and can frequently be found on a range.

Now, since there is no way under the constitution that the right to own guns is going to be removed, how about some sensible suggestions dealing with regulating or making it possible for law enforcement personnel to trace a weapon that may have been used in a crime.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

Post #: 1

RE: What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense? - 3/1/2011 2:47:12 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

I hold a FFDL.

Some young feller or woman comes in with a clean record, buys guns from me and then later resells them to criminals for beaucoup bucks. Called a straw buy.

First problem is the number of guns without a traceable history out there, second problem is you can never get one.

So, you own guns, tell me off the top of the head what the serial numbers are where you got them, when you sold any gun in your life and its serial number who you sold it to, where they live now. Lotta tricky shit out there. There was a time guns were not serial numbered even as late as I think 1968.

I could go on, the defense rests.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 2

RE: What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense? - 3/1/2011 3:01:14 PM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Now, I have a hard time believing that career criminals have obtained guns from a licensed dealer or sporting goods store.

frontline: hot guns: "How Criminals Get Guns" | PBS

In fact, there are a number of sources that allow guns to fall into the wrong hands, with gun thefts at the bottom of the list. Wachtel says one of the most common ways criminals get guns is through straw purchase sales. A straw purchase occurs when someone who may not legally acquire a firearm, or who wants to do so anonymously, has a companion buy it on their behalf. According to a 1994 ATF study on "Sources of Crime Guns in Southern California," many straw purchases are conducted in an openly "suggestive" manner where two people walk into a gun store, one selects a firearm, and then the other uses identification for the purchase and pays for the gun. Or, several underage people walk into a store and an adult with them makes the purchases. Both of these are illegal activities.

The next biggest source of illegal gun transactions where criminals get guns are sales made by legally licensed but corrupt at-home and commercial gun dealers. Several recent reports back up Wachtel's own studies about this, and make the case that illegal activity by those licensed to sell guns, known as Federal Firearms Licensees (FFLs), is a huge source of crime guns and greatly surpasses the sale of guns stolen from John Q. Citizen. Like bank robbers, who are interested in banks, gun traffickers are interested in FFLs because that's where the guns are. This is why FFLs are a large source of illegal guns for traffickers, who ultimately wind up selling the guns on the street.

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 3/1/2011 3:04:19 PM >

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 3

RE: What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense? - 3/1/2011 3:09:11 PM

Arpig

Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline

Myself I would favour banning all firearms

_____________________________

Big man! Pig Man!
Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

CM's #1 All-Time Also-Ran

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 4

RE: What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense? - 3/1/2011 3:10:16 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

You got me thinking…big problem there…lol

How about making the resale of weapons from individuals to individuals illegal.

Only allow weapons to be bought back and resold by licensed dealers.

Set heavy fines if your gun is used in a crime and was not reported stolen. If you have multiple guns stolen over a set time then you could be prohibited from purchasing weapons in the future or for a determined time period.

Just thinking

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 3/1/2011 3:12:34 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 5

RE: What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense? - 3/1/2011 3:14:03 PM

jlf1961

Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

I should have said that the career criminal is not the one doing the actual buying, unless it is from someone that just dont give a shit.

Of course, and I think it was the dumbest idea I have heard concerning guns, Rachel Maddow made a statement on Maher's show about having the bullets laser engraved with some sort of number, so the police could trace it back to point of sale.

It would make more sense to do a ballistics test on every weapon manufactured or imported into the states, with the serial number noted with the test data. That way, if a weapon is used in a crime, the weapon could be traced to whoever bought it.

If a person is not involved in criminal activity, it should be alright, and then let anyone buy whatever the fuck they want.

To prevent straw purchases, make it a criminal offense to NOT report a gun stolen. If you own a firearm, it is just common sense to know where that weapon is at any given time.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 6

RE: What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense? - 3/1/2011 3:14:11 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

This is alotta paperwork right now but not as regulated as in enforced as you guys might think.

Butch, biggest problem I see with that is it becomes a stockmarket flier.

I would gobble up every 357, 9mm, 40, 44, and 45 I could get my hands on.

Those dealer to dealer buys would be in the tens of thousands of dollars.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 7

RE: What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense? - 3/1/2011 3:16:08 PM

jlf1961

Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

You got me thinking…big problem there…lol

How about making the resale of weapons from individuals to individuals illegal.

Only allow weapons to be bought back and resold by licensed dealers.

Set heavy fines if your gun is used in a crime and was not reported stolen. If you have multiple guns stolen over a set time then you could be prohibited from purchasing weapons in the future or for a determined time period.

Just thinking

Butch

Or make it so any weapon to be sold by an individual has to be done through a dealer and on a consignment basis.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 8

RE: What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense? - 3/1/2011 3:19:39 PM

kdsub

Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline

Sounds reasonable to me...it would be more paper work and not infallible but it would make it harder for guns to get in the wrong hands. I don't mind jumping through hoops for the right and privilege of owning a guns for sport and entertainment.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 9

RE: What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense? - 3/1/2011 3:23:29 PM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

consignment is a pain in the fuckin ass, first problem, your rusty never taken care of broken stock front sight missing shit is worth $20 bucks, you scream, well I paid a $1000 for it (I mutter under my breath, so you got fucked) and say how much should I sell it for, minus my 20% (let's say) and you say wont take a penny less than $750. Some guy runs in a month later and offers me $50. I call you. $749. Guy counters $65....and is going to be pissed at me the both of you.

It aint like selling real estate where I can fuck around weeks for $3K.....

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 10

RE: What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense? - 3/1/2011 3:51:35 PM

jlf1961

Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

I worked in a gunshop in the eighties, and we did consignment, BUT we refused a lot of weapons that were in bad shape simply because we knew we couldn't sell the damn things.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to mnottertail)

Post #: 11

RE: What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense? - 3/1/2011 5:13:38 PM

KenDckey

Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline

With transfer of weapons, when we require a dealer to resell a weapon for you, then you can not pass down heirlooms. Like the cap and ball 58 cal enfield that I got when my father died.

I still have no problem with registration tho.

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 12

RE: What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense? - 3/1/2011 5:27:48 PM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

If you notice, the 2nd Amendment does not specify what kind of arms one can or cannot own, therefore, you should have the legal right to own whatever type of firearm you want, up to and including automatic and burst fire weapons.

I'm not following. In my interpretation, all firearms that existed at the time of the Second Amendment are clearly included. But those developed after, including automatics, are iffy because it could be argued that they weren't intended to be covered.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

To prevent straw purchases, make it a criminal offense to NOT report a gun stolen. If you own a firearm, it is just common sense to know where that weapon is at any given time.

I don;t follow. What's to stop me from selling a gun and then reporting it stolen? How would the requirement to report gun resales impeded those who will circumvent the law, simply by lying?

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 13

RE: What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense? - 3/1/2011 5:40:20 PM

jack8007

Posts: 392
Joined: 8/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

regulating or making it possible for law enforcement personnel to trace a weapon that may have been used in a crime.

Nothing's going to be perfect.   But my idea is that the way to regulate is to give the dealers and distributors incentive to think about how they do business.

My suggestion is establish an insurance pool like workers' comp.   If a person is shot unlawfully, their costs are paid out of the insurance pool.   The funds come from taxing firearms transfers at variable rates - the dealers and makes that the actuaries say are most likely to be used in an illegal shooting pay the most.

Just like employers look at the way they organize their shop, a mfgr or dealer is faced with paying the costs - instead of dumping them on the nearest ER - and they have a serious incentive to ask themselves if they trust their customer.   And taxpayers don't pay for those patients.

There are some good points made by gun-runners.   But the people they choose to speak for them are too obtuse & stupid to see that that keeping guns out of morons' hands will prevent murders and assassinations, and that makes them look like the same sort of morons who shouldn't be trusted with a slingshot, let alone an AK.   They're too stupid to see that no AK is going to keep the sheriff from evicting you when Chase bank forecloses on your ass. Then you can hang out in the park and shoot rabbits for dinner.

Yeah, we should definitely fixate on 18th century firearms as a major cultural issue.

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 14

RE: What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense? - 3/1/2011 5:50:22 PM

jack8007

Posts: 392
Joined: 8/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

In my interpretation

OK, you win. I can't tell if you're serious. You really want to consider if a weapon was known in 1791?

I suppose we could talk about whether rights to free speech included use of phones computers, or print technology unknown in 1791.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 15

RE: What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense? - 3/1/2011 6:02:43 PM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jack8007

My suggestion is establish an insurance pool like workers' comp. If a person is shot unlawfully, their costs are paid out of the insurance pool. The funds come from taxing firearms transfers at variable rates - the dealers and makes that the actuaries say are most likely to be used in an illegal shooting pay the most.

Just like employers look at the way they organize their shop, a mfgr or dealer is faced with paying the costs - instead of dumping them on the nearest ER - and they have a serious incentive to ask themselves if they trust their customer. And taxpayers don't pay for those patients.

Interesting idea.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jack8007

OK, you win. I can't tell if you're serious. You really want to consider if a weapon was known in 1791?

I suppose we could talk about whether rights to free speech included use of phones computers, or print technology unknown in 1791.

I am saying very simply that the Second Amendment clearly covered all guns known at that time. Therefore, any challenge to the Amendment will be stronger if it concerns a gun which was developed subsequent to that.

I'd just like to mention that laws DO have to be revisited to allow for technology at times, and the courts continually have to interpret laws in view of new technology, taking the original intent into account.

< Message edited by DarkSteven -- 3/1/2011 6:03:24 PM >

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to jack8007)

Post #: 16

RE: What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense? - 3/1/2011 6:09:08 PM

jack8007

Posts: 392
Joined: 8/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

laws DO have to be revisited to allow for technology at times

Not in that obvious way, because a half decent statute will describe general terms.

Now if you're talking about the effects of technology, like what is a reasonable expectation of privacy after helicopters, or regulation of the technology itself, like how confined a radio broadcast or microwave has to be, that's obvious.

When you get back to the 2nd amendment, it talks about arms in the context of a well-regulated militia, and I don't see why a person shouldn't be entitled to any weapon necessary to a well-regulated militia.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 17

RE: What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense? - 3/1/2011 6:21:52 PM

jlf1961

Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jack8007

quote:

In my interpretation

OK, you win. I can't tell if you're serious. You really want to consider if a weapon was known in 1791?

I suppose we could talk about whether rights to free speech included use of phones computers, or print technology unknown in 1791.

Actually, Congress already defined firearms, and each subsequent type of firearms in the National Firearms Act of 1934 and the Gun Control Act of 1968.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to jack8007)

Post #: 18

RE: What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense? - 3/1/2011 6:48:33 PM

Termyn8or

Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline

FR

Forget banning sales and transfers, all that shit. I doesn't work. How long any of you lived in the UK ? Give me a place to stay there and a decent job for about three months and I'll get some guns. With just a little bit of operating capital I can meet the right people almost anywhere. Crack is illegal and my boss'll tellya that the guy who doesn't work there anymore could find crack on the moon.

The first thing to realize is that the laws do not affect the lawless. I am. No penalty is enough to keep me from doing what I want to do, I just don't happen to want to do anything wrong. Well there are a hell of alot of others out there who are actually lawless, bu some of them do want to do something wrong.

When you disarm the population you make it easier. When you try to set a criterium for those who deserve their rights, you invite the same for yourself. KINKSTERS LISTEN UP. Let's say you are scening and have a bad accident. On top of the usual self flagelating mental trauma now you have a criminal case. But you get an understanding judge and you get off with non-aggravated negligent battery, something like that. That is considered a violaent crime, though it had nothing to do with a gun. It could happen to YOU. When they came for the........you remember that old "verse".

No. Better that people can and do defend themselves. Aptly. The gun "license" comes with say a highschool diploma, or equivalency. You have to know how to handle them safely and know how to shoot them as well. E v e r y b o d y .

Now, it is totally unreasonable for people to shoot copper jacketed 7.62X39s all over town. So in populated areas, it should be prohibited to FIRE such high powered weapons because of the collateral damage they may inflict. You can have whatever you want, but don't shoot it in town. high explosive BTW are not included in the deal. If it's enough to blow up more than your own house there should be a stiff fine for having it. If detonated, then things get worse.

Concealed carry should be a universal right (well it is but not enforced). When someone wants to try some shit, make it hard on them. Grandma over there might blow the punk's head off. And I hope she does.

Cleanup in aisle USA ! And a blue light special for the perps.

You gimme a grand and an inconspicuous car with local plates and I'll bring back at least one gun in less than a day. Maybe two. (guns, not days) Now how long was that waiting period ?

Like I said, fuck all that. Make the crooks think for their loot, rather than just using brute force. Speaking of which, if you are a 6'7" crackhead and you want my 5'6" 70 year old Mother's money, wouldn't it be nice if she had a gun ?

This robbery and shit cannot be tolerated. I don't know about other countries but I know how it's done here. Good luck and smile, you're on candid camera.

T^T

(in reply to jack8007)

Post #: 19

RE: What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense? - 3/1/2011 7:28:12 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

Regulate gun shows. Require private sellers to run background checks.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to jlf1961)

Post #: 20

Page: [1] 2 3 4 5 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> What kind of Gun Regulation Makes Sense?

Page: [1] 2 3 4 5 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.098