RE: OMG -- How did we ever survive being a kid

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SpiritedRadiance -> RE: OMG -- How did we ever survive being a kid (3/9/2011 3:40:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NocturnalStalker Regardless of what we debate, this is just going to go back to "what worked for us" in our younger years. I am personally not over a century old like some of you so...alright, alright, that was just a joke, calm down. Seriously, I was not raised in the same way some of you were and I'd say it worked for the best. I do know with confidence that if that happened where I grew up then there would be Hell to pay. If on a personal note, I have kids (God forbid) and this happened then there'd be a lot of trouble for the person that did this. The flaw in your plan is Im only 22 and I was in high school no less then 4 Years ago, and when i was in elementry school I had notes pinned to me because Id forget to take them home... and when i was in high school ( Rotc class) I was paddled when i pissed off the teacher enough to bring it to that situation.... I didnt die from it, I didnt somehow form some mental disorder I learned to keep my mouth shut in class and stop pushing the teachers buttons. so this ISNT a case of years ago back when i was in school... no, this is a case of Its happening still today and the world isnt ending... kids arent dying they are learning to behave themselves.

defiantbadgirl -> RE: OMG -- How did we ever survive being a kid (3/9/2011 3:41:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee Oh good grief. You are over 40. I'm 37. That means that this happened 35 plus years ago. I think that it is time and past time for you to climb off that cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it. I am over it, but it took years for me to get to that point. I didn't take public speaking until I was in my early 30's. Even then, I couldn't stand in front of the class and speak without shaking all over. I'm not talking about one incident of bullying, but years of it. The incident in kindergarten is what started it. You must not know much about phobias. Where were your parents? Your school teacher grandmother? My school teacher grandmother told the school I could read, but they wouldn't listen to her because she was the grandparent, not the parent. My father just went along with the school's recommendations. One other teacher humiliated me when I was older and able to better express myself. My father tore into her and she never did it again, but that didn't erase the previous incident from my classmate's memories. You just suffered in silence like a good little martyr? I didn't know how to defend myself that well when I was 5. You never changed schools? As in from elementary to junior high to high school? Of course I changed schools.....along with all of the same classmates I was tormented by. Shit happens when you are a kid. It builds character. Humiliation of children does not build character. It tears it down. I'm over it, but seeing stories like this brings back bad memories. I hate seeing the same thing happen to other kids that happened to me.

SpiritedRadiance -> RE: OMG -- How did we ever survive being a kid (3/9/2011 3:47:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl I'm 37. I am over it, but it took years for me to get to that point. I didn't take public speaking until I was in my early 30's. Even then, I couldn't stand in front of the class and speak without shaking all over. I'm not talking about one incident of bullying, but years of it. The incident in kindergarten is what started it. You must not know much about phobias. My school teacher grandmother told the school I could read, but they wouldn't listen to her because she was the grandparent, not the parent. My father just went along with the school's recommendations. One other teacher humiliated me when I was older and able to better express myself. My father tore into her and she never did it again, but that didn't erase the previous incident from my classmate's memories. I didn't know how to defend myself that well when I was 5. Of course I changed schools.....along with all of the same classmates I was tormented by. Humiliation of children does not build character. It tears it down. No offense but most people... dont know how to take personal responsibility if it came and bit them on the nose and shook them too the ground... Humiliation builds character, it teaches kids that NOT everyones going to like them and be friendly, not everyone is here to too the horn of im the the most wonderful in the world... it knocks people back to reality...and teaches them the world isnt fair learn to deal with it...

rick1283 -> RE: OMG -- How did we ever survive being a kid (3/9/2011 3:50:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SpiritedRadiance quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl I'm 37. I am over it, but it took years for me to get to that point. I didn't take public speaking until I was in my early 30's. Even then, I couldn't stand in front of the class and speak without shaking all over. I'm not talking about one incident of bullying, but years of it. The incident in kindergarten is what started it. You must not know much about phobias. My school teacher grandmother told the school I could read, but they wouldn't listen to her because she was the grandparent, not the parent. My father just went along with the school's recommendations. One other teacher humiliated me when I was older and able to better express myself. My father tore into her and she never did it again, but that didn't erase the previous incident from my classmate's memories. I didn't know how to defend myself that well when I was 5. Of course I changed schools.....along with all of the same classmates I was tormented by. Humiliation of children does not build character. It tears it down. No offense but most people... dont know how to take personal responsibility if it came and bit them on the nose and shook them too the ground... Humiliation builds character, it teaches kids that NOT everyones going to like them and be friendly, not everyone is here to too the horn of im the the most wonderful in the world... it knocks people back to reality...and teaches them the world isnt fair learn to deal with it... And the sooner the better. Otherwise it becomes ingrained in their minds and is even harder to give them the proper outlook.

defiantbadgirl -> RE: OMG -- How did we ever survive being a kid (3/9/2011 4:00:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SpiritedRadiance Humiliation builds character, it teaches kids that NOT everyones going to like them and be friendly, not everyone is here to too the horn of im the the most wonderful in the world... it knocks people back to reality...and teaches them the world isnt fair learn to deal with it... Tell that to the parents of children who have commited suicide due to the humilation of being bullied. Tell that to parents of children who were slaughtered by other children driven insane by bullying.

tazzygirl -> RE: OMG -- How did we ever survive being a kid (3/9/2011 4:00:47 PM)
quote: I do know with confidence that if that happened where I grew up then there would be Hell to pay. If on a personal note, I have kids (God forbid) and this happened then there'd be a lot of trouble for the person that did this. And here is the crux of the problem. The teacher teacher teacher... and no mention of controlling your own child.

tazzygirl -> RE: OMG -- How did we ever survive being a kid (3/9/2011 4:03:15 PM)
quote: Of course children should be taught to take responsibility for their actions. But how long should the punishment last? The consequences of embarassing a child in front of their peers can last for months and even years in some cases. It sets them up as a target for bullying. Here's how it works. It starts with a single humiliation. When teasing from that incident gets old, classmates look for other things to taunt them about. In some cases, the bullying continues for years. This often leads to children skipping school, dropping out, and in extreme cases even suicide. I'm all for teachers maintaining order in the classroom, but NEVER through humiliation. Did you miss the part about the note going on the t-shirt, under the sweat shirt?

SpiritedRadiance -> RE: OMG -- How did we ever survive being a kid (3/9/2011 4:06:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl Tell that to the parents of children who have commited suicide due to the humilation of being bullied. Tell that to parents of children who were slaughtered by other children driven insane by bullying. I will share that with my mom when i see her again.... I was the fat kid the gym teacher told point blank you cant wrestle in class your to heavy youll kill the other girls... Or in high school when i ran the mile how the cheerleaders pointed out about the earth quake that was happening and how it was inhumane to the other countries in the world to make them suffer so I could learn to move my ass... Or how I was suspended from school for having a broken CD in my bag because I was "totally going to go crazy and kill the people making fun of me because i was that awkward goth girl" Guess what I grew up and I out grew it... bullying its a major deal yes, but humiliation doesnt lead to bullying in every single case. Just because you cant pull on your big girl panties and get over what happened 30 years ago... doesnt mean that everyone holds on to such injustices...Some of us grow up and get over it and lead rather normal productive lives....

defiantbadgirl -> RE: OMG -- How did we ever survive being a kid (3/9/2011 4:07:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl And here is the crux of the problem. The teacher teacher teacher... and no mention of controlling your own child. Not all children are bulled by teachers because of their behavior either. Did I deserve to be called a liar in front of the whole class because I knew how to read? Did the student NocturnalStalker spoke about deserve to be humiliated over cutting out shapes wrong? There are far better ways of dealing with children, behavior problem or not, without humiliating them.

tazzygirl -> RE: OMG -- How did we ever survive being a kid (3/9/2011 4:14:04 PM)
quote: Tell that to the parents of children who have commited suicide due to the humilation of being bullied. Tell that to parents of children who were slaughtered by other children driven insane by bullying. we went from a teacher embarrassing a child to bullying him? When did that happen?

tazzygirl -> RE: OMG -- How did we ever survive being a kid (3/9/2011 4:16:31 PM)
quote: Not all children are bulled by teachers because of their behavior either. Did I deserve to be called a liar in front of the whole class because I knew how to read? Did the student NocturnalStalker spoke about deserve to be humiliated over cutting out shapes wrong? There are far better ways of dealing with children, behavior problem or not, without humiliating them. This teacher didnt make a public humiliation scene for this child. She stapled a note to his tshirt, then COVERED the note with his sweat shirt. Where was the public humiliation?

DesFIP -> RE: OMG -- How did we ever survive being a kid (3/9/2011 4:19:49 PM)
The line between embarrassment and bullying comes in the response of the person receiving it. When you negate someone's emotions by saying their feelings are invalid, and he needs to toughen up, that's when you are saying that you allow bullying. Beyond that, why the hell is the teacher so incompetent that they are pinning notes to a kid which the kid could take off or have torn off by others? Around here, all the teachers have email addresses for parents and a list of phone numbers. What happened to calling up a parent and telling them there was a problem? And if they don't know how to use email, then they need to retire.

tazzygirl -> RE: OMG -- How did we ever survive being a kid (3/9/2011 4:22:49 PM)
quote: What happened to calling up a parent and telling them there was a problem? Since no mention of phone calls were made by either side, as of yet, we dont know what the problem was. I work with a girl who didnt get a cell phone until last year.. and she is 35. quote: And if they don't know how to use email, then they need to retire. Are you assuming everyone has an e-mail address or access to the internet? I can assure you, that isnt true.

agirl -> RE: OMG -- How did we ever survive being a kid (3/9/2011 4:25:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rick1283 quote: ORIGINAL: agirl quote: ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee We are talking about a 2nd grader. The incident will be forgotten by classmates in a week, tops. A 7th grader would be a different story. Bullshit. I was humiliated in kindergarten because the teacher didn't believe I could read. She said she didn't allow liars in her classroom. I was so embarassed I was unable to read in class when they started teaching the other students to read. I would get scared and freeze up. So the school thought I had a reading deficiency and stuck me in special ed. I had no problems reading there since the risk of humiliation didn't exist. When I was in the 3rd grade, they decided to test me to check my progress. According to the test results, I could read at 10th grade level. Of course, they took me out of special ed at that point, but the damage was done. I was bullied on a daily basis because I had been in special ed. The bullying continued for years until I dropped out of school. For years, I refused to attend college because I was terrified of public speaking, a required course. The point I'm trying to make is, humiliation does lead to bullying and an inferiority complex. I know from personal experience. No, humiliation CAN lead to it. That's your experience: it's not going to be everyone's, by any stretch of the imagination. agirl This is true. You know, when I was in kindergarten, I wasn't exactly well behaved... at all. And oftentimes, that would lead to punishment. Most common was sitting in the front of the class and having to watch quietly as everyone else did some fun activity. Fast forward to middle school and standardized tests. I never tested with my class. I was always moved to a "special" group, because I was easily distracted, but my scores were high while I wasn't, and EVEY one knew that that was where a lot of the mentally deficient kids tested, for similar reasons. What we didn't know at the time, was the reason I was in there, all we knew is that I was testing with the "retards." Yeah, I got made fun of a bit, and I didn't like it at all. But in my case, people grew up and dropped it. Now, while I don't have many friends, I AM respected among my peers. That whole thing is never even brought up anymore unless jokingly. My eldest son was dyslexic (which wasn't widely acknowledged or understood at the time) He had a horrid time at school, but also at home, because I didn't know why he was a frustrating little prig either. I wasn't exactly oblivious to his struggles OR my stresses dealing with them and I wasn't any better placed than his school to understand.......it wasn't until he was 9yrs old that he was diagnosed, due to questions and pressure from me.... (Yeyy for "Dyslexia Awareness Week" in the Library) and I'd love to say it all went swimmingly after that, but it didn't, as, a pattern had been set and had to be un-set, ...not only by his teachers, but by him and by me. His Secondary School was utterly different and he did well there, with amazingly dedicated teachers and by then he'd matured a bit and realised that some of his problems were self-inflicted with his OWN attitude.He was dyslexic but he was also big-time lazy; not a good combination.....lol Soooo, it depends on the child, the situation AND you: what materials you get to work with. My youngest sons are utterly different and pretty much sailed through school with accolades surrounding them that had little to do with me. They had various problems to deal with, including the death of their Dad, to deal with, but their attitude was one of sorting it out for themselves and they barely missed a beat. They had the confidence to do so because they knew I wasn't going to step in. They assumed responsibility for their own educational life and their own life in general. End result... the youngest two STILL are far more responsible for their own lives, the oldest two still have a tendency to blame when things don't go their way. The eldest two look up to the youngest two...lol They all are successful in their OWN ways with their own thorny pasts. NONE of them would thank me if I'd made TV air-time out of our fuck-ups or struggles. Lastly, the only person that has had any lasting impact on my children has been ME, for good or for ill. No teacher could ever damage them anything LIKE as effectively as I could, nor could they hurt them as effectively, nor could their praise beat mine. agirl

defiantbadgirl -> RE: OMG -- How did we ever survive being a kid (3/9/2011 4:26:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SpiritedRadiance Guess what I grew up and I out grew it... bullying its a major deal yes, but humiliation doesnt lead to bullying in every single case. Just because you cant pull on your big girl panties and get over what happened 30 years ago... doesnt mean that everyone holds on to such injustices...Some of us grow up and get over it and lead rather normal productive lives.... As a victim of bullying yourself, I can't understand why you're not taking the same stance I am. We both got over it, but doesn't the thought of the same thing happening to others, especially young children being bullied by adults bother you? Non-consentual humiliation of young children is bullying. Children often learn their behaviors by watching adults. So teachers that humiliate young children are not only traumatizing the child they humiliate, they're also teaching the other children in the class how to be bullies.

littlewonder -> RE: OMG -- How did we ever survive being a kid (3/9/2011 4:29:32 PM)
when I had a school age child if a child talked in class they were simply sent to the principal's office where they sat and then had detention after school and the only way to leave detention was to have a parent pick you up. You could not leave otherwise. This way both the child and the parent got a lecture from a teacher. This idea of pinning the note sounds like a teacher who simply had enough and that the school didn't really have a policy on how to proceed with such incidents...or the teacher ignored it. Imo when you have a teacher who starts to not follow procedures is a teacher who may be needing some mental days off or needs to find a new job. We had a teacher here who had a nervous breakdown when he yelled at a class of fifth graders and he quit the next day. He realized he couldn't handle children even though he loved to teach....just not children. As for the bullying/embarrassment.....I was teased constantly as a child because we were the poor family in town and I had health problems which made me look horrible. I was teased day in day out by both the other kids and teachers to the point that yes I was ready to give up my life. I came home every single day in tears and pain. Did it make me a stronger person? Did it thicken my skin? No..just the opposite. To this day I'm very sensitive about certain issues. I still hear those taunts and teases in my head. So this idea of that it will make you tougher imo just isn't always true. It may be for a select few but for the majority of kids it's something that sticks with you for the rest of your life and not always in a good way.

SpiritedRadiance -> RE: OMG -- How did we ever survive being a kid (3/9/2011 4:30:20 PM)
No im in the strong camp... of if it doesnt kill you it will make you stronger... you might not always see it at the time, but you will grow for what you suffer through....and with out that suffering you cant know what the world really has to offer...

tazzygirl -> RE: OMG -- How did we ever survive being a kid (3/9/2011 4:31:00 PM)
Oh hell... please... We had notes pinned to us all the time. We had corporal punishment. Think that wasnt embarrassing??? Hell yes!!! and was the best deterent from doing whatever that behavior was that got us paddled. Instead of holding children responsible for their actions, parents are looking for scape goats in the teachers because these damn parents dont know how to raise their own kids. What you often hear is... Oh hell no, She didnt!... Yes, she did, Now be a parent and figure out how to prevent it from happening again.

DesFIP -> RE: OMG -- How did we ever survive being a kid (3/9/2011 4:32:34 PM)
It may not lead to bullying in every case, but even one case is too many. Here we have a zero tolerance policy. How much tolerance for bullying are you advocating SR? Ten cases a year? Ten attacks on one kid every year? Or one attack on ten different children? Where do you draw that line? As a voter, any superintendent who said he/she was advocating creating a hostile environment for learning is one I would not vote for. YMMV. As a parent, I put my daughter into a private school to ensure her safety. Emotional as well as physical.

barelynangel -> RE: OMG -- How did we ever survive being a kid (3/9/2011 4:37:46 PM)
You don't sound over it. However DBG, your issue was your parents and grandparent FAILED you. What parent who knows their kid can read accepts her being put in Special Ed because a teacher says she can't read? Where were your parents or your grandmother a TEACHER, speaking to the school and teachers. I have a hard time believing you didn't go home and say to your parents -- i told the teacher i could read and she called me a liar in front of everyone. I would imagine parents would have noticed the change in their child when she was reading fine one minute then just stops in school. Hell with the twins one was a beast nad one a monkey and while the beast would yell everything at the top of his lungs, i knew when something was up, the monkey was quiet and yet because i knew him, i knew when something happened in school that was bothering him. THIS is why parents need to pay attention. Kids face bad things growing up all the time, they face embarrassing moments given to them by themselves, their parents, their teachers ect. PART of growing up is learning how to DEAL with these issues. Nowadays too many parents are too eager to label their kid with some issue as to why he can't do things like all the other kids. They don't teach kids the VERY VERY basic concept we were all taught at a very early age -- sticks and stones. I don't think most kids even know that little ditty anymore. And its a product of the times --- parents WANT all these bad things to HURT and cause pain and instead of teaching children that there are things that may hurt but CAN'T hurt you, if you handle it the right way -- a BIG part of that is teasing of kids. Hell remember i'm rubber your glue? I mean yes they seem like silly little ditties kids say to each other when we were kids but they taught kids a lot. This "embarrassment" that this kid had to "face" was a consequence to his negative behavior. And the mother could really have taught him a life lesson, but instead she is teaching him that discipline means nothing. That he should let what kids say effect him negatively and mommy will go to the news and tell everyone else about the issue so you are further in the spotlight. Sticks and stones may break my bones but names or teasing or mean sayings will never hurt me. God so simple yet so much of a tool to teach a life lesson. Too bad its not something kids are taught to understand. Its more fun to make them sensitive and not capable of handling critisim by their peers. Grant it teasing is hard and its frustrating and sometimes embarrassing, but that's part of what being a kid is -- LEARNING to deal with same without having a meltdown and falling into depression and unable to function any longer among those peers. angel

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