RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining

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tazzygirl -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/10/2011 7:05:13 AM)
The measure approved Wednesday forbids most government workers from collectively bargaining for wage increases beyond the rate of inflation.

Sanity -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/10/2011 7:06:28 AM)
Okay, and massive deficits and the stagnant unemployment numbers. I suppose youre going to find a poll that reveals how theyre soaring in popularity as well? quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Among those asked about the state budget deficit, 52% supported the Democrats and 44% supported the Governor. Most of those 50 and over support the Governor, 40-somethings are evenly divided, and those under 40 support the Democrats. Additionally, 49% believe it’s good that most teachers belong to a union. Among those with children in the public school system, 58% believe that’s a good thing. http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_state_surveys/wisconsin/wisconsin_poll_support_for_budget_cutting_not_for_weakening_collective_bargaining_rights

tazzygirl -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/10/2011 7:13:37 AM)
MADISON -- Wisconsin's unemployment rate continues to improve, nudging down to 7.4 percent in January. That's 1½ points better than the national unemployment rate. http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20110310/GPG03/103100608/1247/Wisconsin-unemployment-rate-improves-7-4- Governor Scott Walker has said that he will not raise taxes[6] but will tackle the estimated $3.1 billion shortfall with the budget that he was topresent on Feb. 22, 2011.[7] The text of the governor's budget address delivered on Feb. 22, 2011, can be found here, but he said that he will delay actually introducing his proposed budget bill until after that.[8] The proposed budget will include the possibility of selling power plants at state facilities, including university campuses and prisons.[9] State agencies have requested $1.1 billion in new funding for a "cost to continue" budget for the 2011-13 biennium. The bolded part sound familiar?

Sanity -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/10/2011 7:13:46 AM)
Can we call it "stagflation" yet? Why, yes. I believe we can. The people of Wisconsin and several other states voted for strong medicine. They dont like the taste at the moment, some of them, but strong medicine is what theyre getting. Obama said elections have consequences, and he also said that the losers need to sit down in the back of the bus and shut up. [;)]

mnottertail -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/10/2011 7:14:52 AM)
I hape there are more moneysaving bills on the way, because they will need it to pay for the uncountable court challenges.

CreativeDominant -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/10/2011 7:15:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Tazzy the only way to fight this is for public workers to go out on a mass strike.. they will have to do it at the risk of their jobs because the union can not sanction the strike and stay out of jail and not be fined. It is tough but the only thing that will work. I agree, its the only card those folks have left to play. Stop EVERYTHING. There was a reason for collective bargaining, and now that that's been eliminated, the state workers should go on strike and grind the state to a halt. Their jobs are already forfeit, now that the Republicans (who do not represent the people of Wisconsin) can run rough-shot over state workers. What is really appalling to me, is how underhand and unethical a move this was for Republicans. They didn't do this for the budget. That arguement was long since over. This was simply to remove US Citizens, the ability to represent themselves against meglomanics. If they choose to strike, you better believe there will be alot of support going their way from Americans across the country. I'd like to know how those Republicans do not represent the people of their district...you know, the same ones who voted them in? Does that mean that, in Wisconsin or any other state, only the Democrats represent the people who voted them in? The argument about this being for the budget was long over? Why? Because the union said it was NOT about the budget? Sorry...they do not have the last word. As for going out on strike, I am sure they will have plenty of support...from other public employee unions, from Obama's Chicago team (way to go, Mr. President...support the unions and not the states. Show the people where your support comes from).

Sanity -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/10/2011 7:15:42 AM)
Good! Its nice to see that Walker is managing to turn things around for Wisconsin. THAT cant hurt his reelection chances, can it? quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl MADISON -- Wisconsin's unemployment rate continues to improve, nudging down to 7.4 percent in January. That's 1½ points better than the national unemployment rate. http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20110310/GPG03/103100608/1247/Wisconsin-unemployment-rate-improves-7-4- Governor Scott Walker has said that he will not raise taxes[6] but will tackle the estimated $3.1 billion shortfall with the budget that he was topresent on Feb. 22, 2011.[7] The text of the governor's budget address delivered on Feb. 22, 2011, can be found here, but he said that he will delay actually introducing his proposed budget bill until after that.[8] The proposed budget will include the possibility of selling power plants at state facilities, including university campuses and prisons.[9] State agencies have requested $1.1 billion in new funding for a "cost to continue" budget for the 2011-13 biennium. The bolded part sound familiar?

mnottertail -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/10/2011 7:18:50 AM)
yes it can.

servantforuse -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/10/2011 7:19:50 AM)
It's hard to debate a bill and vote on it when you are still hiding out in Illinois. 22 days and counting.

mnottertail -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/10/2011 7:22:36 AM)
LOL, it was already debated, 61 hours worth, one of the longest debates in WI memory. They left before the scheduled vote. Try to keep up.

tazzygirl -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/10/2011 7:32:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Can we call it "stagflation" yet? Why, yes. I believe we can. The people of Wisconsin and several other states voted for strong medicine. They dont like the taste at the moment, some of them, but strong medicine is what theyre getting. Obama said elections have consequences, and he also said that the losers need to sit down in the back of the bus and shut up. [;)] In economics, stagflation is a situation in which the inflation rate is high and the economic growth rate is low. I dont consider an inflation rate of 1.6% to be high. But Im not an economist. We certainly have had higher inflation rates in this century. July 2008 saw inflation at 5.6%.

Sanity -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/10/2011 7:33:10 AM)
Something else thgat will affect the elections is that Obama isnt real popular among most groups polled, even many Dems, and his dismal performance is a huge part of the voter frustrations that swept so many Republicans into power. And last time I checked, Obama was still in office, leading leftists into their worst downward spiral in recent memory.

servantforuse -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/10/2011 7:41:13 AM)
mntail, This happened in the Senate. The dems on the run are senators. The 61 hour debate happened in the Assembly with dems present. Try to keep up.

tazzygirl -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/10/2011 7:44:00 AM)
Thats what he said, servant.

rulemylife -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/10/2011 7:51:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Something else thgat will affect the elections is that Obama isnt real popular among most groups polled, even many Dems, and his dismal performance is a huge part of the voter frustrations that swept so many Republicans into power. And last time I checked, Obama was still in office, leading leftists into their worst downward spiral in recent memory. Nonsense as usual. Obama's approval ratings have consistently been in the high 40% to low 50% range.

servantforuse -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/10/2011 7:54:18 AM)
The senators who fled did not debate anything for 61 hours. That happened in the Assembly and not the Senate. They are separate bodies.

joether -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/10/2011 8:00:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant I'd like to know how those Republicans do not represent the people of their district...you know, the same ones who voted them in? Does that mean that, in Wisconsin or any other state, only the Democrats represent the people who voted them in? I'm speaking about the folks who are just now waking up to the fact that they voted for the wrong person in office. It is a well known fact that conservatives are generally to retarded to think for themselves. Fortunately for them, they have Fox News to help cut down the deeply complex issues and concepts into small, tiny, bite-sized sound bits that are entirely devoid of information. Traditionally, Democrats represented the working class in America, while Republicans represented big business. Seems to hold true today, doesn't it? quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant The argument about this being for the budget was long over? Why? Because the union said it was NOT about the budget? Sorry...they do not have the last word. More or less at the start of this issue, the Unions had agreed to the economic aspect of the Governor's 'request' (read: threat). After that, the arguement took on new meaning. Since money was removed as the factor, what was left? The politics. The Union is composed of US Citizens. Last I checked, US Citizens do indeed get the last word. But I guess in your 'understanding' of reality, US Citizens are merely slaves to big business; to be used, abused, and discarded when not needed anymore. quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant As for going out on strike, I am sure they will have plenty of support...from other public employee unions, from Obama's Chicago team (way to go, Mr. President...support the unions and not the states. Show the people where your support comes from). Why is 'Collective Bargaining' such a tough subject for you to understand? The whole purpose of it, was to allow the Union and Management (in this case, the Union and elected officals), to work towards a solution, while the business operates as smoothly as before the issue. Take that component out of the system, and what happens: Strikes. I myself, don't want to see a strike take place in Wisconsin. But that maybe were the state is headed; when things come to a grinding halt. Did it ever occur to you the timing of all this? During a RECESSION? When there is high unemployment. Governor wants to stripe employees of their rights and ability to sue the goverment over problems. Now where do you think the right to petition the goverment for a redress of grievances comes from? That way, the employees (who are US Citizens) can take further and further abuse without a right to challenge it. The concept of a Union, was a means to combined people's voices together under one banner, and present their arguement to management. Rather then management having to deal with 1900 workers individually, they could handle things 'across the board'. So, combining the this and the last paragraph gives a basic (and I'm talking 6th grader level) understanding of why collective bargaining should remain in place.

EternalHoH -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/10/2011 8:06:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant I'd like to know how those Republicans do not represent the people of their district...you know, the same ones who voted them in? I think they DO represent the people, but most of the people there are mentally fucked in the head, so the end result is rather comical. The people voted for a tea party candidate that ran on government non-intervention into business affairs, and those same people are now wanting their elected tea candidate to intervene and set wage controls on a public worker segment of the population - all because a growing number of taxpayers are increasingly finding themselves non-competitive in a global free market and unable to handle their share of the resulting tax burden. A guy that ran on a 'bankster bailout resentment' theme is now supposed to intervene, take away bargaining power, and effectively bail out those poor taxpayer types who were dumb enough to 'give it up' and lose ground to their boss man years ago and land themselves behind the 8-ball in the first place? Apparently, all that anger is not about the act of a bailout, but who receives a bailout. Rich thinks that status as a taxpayer is all that is needed to ensure that smart people in the public sector never exceed the pay and bennies of the dumbest guy in the private sector - because that dumbest guy is the lowest common denominator among the bill payers. In his mind, taxpayer status trumps free markets. Wake me up from your bizarro world. What a massive attempt at Obama-esque "social engineering of equality", resulting in an overall lower standard for everyone, being carried out by the tea-elected guy. Holy fuckin Christ, what kind of 'free market' guys are you? Where the hell is your 'invisible hand'? Presently wrist deep up your ass?

joether -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/10/2011 8:10:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Something else thgat will affect the elections is that Obama isnt real popular among most groups polled, even many Dems, and his dismal performance is a huge part of the voter frustrations that swept so many Republicans into power. And last time I checked, Obama was still in office, leading leftists into their worst downward spiral in recent memory. Its nice to know that always live up to the opposite of your name. [:D] Mr. Obama's approval rating right how is just a tad below 50%. Essentially he just has to convince 10% more of the voting crowd to vote for him. Compare that to ANY of the Republicans who are seen as contenders for the Republican Ticket, he has a wide lead. The best ones in the field have so much baggage its silly; they will have to convince 30-40% more voting Americans to vote for them over Mr. Obama. Also given Americans (all the liberals, grand majority of moderates and some conservatives) are becoming wise to the GOP/Tea Party misinformation machine that is used in EVERY election year since the Clinton Administration? Likewise, its been two months, and the GOP still has not come out with an effective and effiecent plan for getting Americans hooked up to good paying jobs across the nation. You know? The primary reason why they got elected? Why are you not holding Republicans/Tea Party people to the same level of accountability that you do for Democrats?

mnottertail -> RE: Wisconsin loses collective bargaining (3/10/2011 8:10:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: servantforuse mntail, This happened in the Senate. The dems on the run are senators. The 61 hour debate happened in the Assembly with dems present. Try to keep up. There is no debate and will be no debate scheduled on the senate version of the bill. No amendments allowed to be offered. Try to keep up.

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