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RE: Before the Big Bang: looking back in time - Paralle... - 5/29/2011 4:01:35 PM   
hardcybermaster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

There is some proof that it may not be so fanciful. It seems to me that the experiments with observation and the affects on reality at least open the possibility of an unknown relationship between thought, or consciousness, and the physical world.

Again I am talking possibilities

Butch

can you tell me what that proof is? please tell me about the relationship between thought/consciousness and the physical world and how it proves the existance of a god

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RE: Before the Big Bang: looking back in time - Paralle... - 5/29/2011 4:03:34 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

There is some proof that it may not be so fanciful. It seems to me that the experiments with observation and the affects on reality at least open the possibility of an unknown relationship between thought, or consciousness, and the physical world.

Again I am talking possibilities

Butch

can you tell me what that proof is? please tell me about the relationship between thought/consciousness and the physical world and how it proves the existance of a god


Now you'll be directed to thread on the debunked nonsense about emotions affecting ice crystals.


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to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

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RE: Before the Big Bang: looking back in time - Paralle... - 5/29/2011 4:05:58 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		You go too far... I said it shows proof of the possibility... If there is consciousness outside of and able to influence the physical universe then is this not part of the definition of God?

Butch

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Before the Big Bang: looking back in time - Paralle... - 5/29/2011 4:06:25 PM   
hardcybermaster


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Status: offline 		I hope so. Ice crystals are so mystical and groovy

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RE: Before the Big Bang: looking back in time - Paralle... - 5/29/2011 4:07:39 PM   
hardcybermaster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

You go too far... I said it shows proof of the possibility... If there is consciousness outside of and able to influence the physical universe then is this not part of the definition of God?

Butch

there isn't and it doesn't

(in reply to kdsub)
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RE: Before the Big Bang: looking back in time - Paralle... - 5/29/2011 4:12:26 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		I guess it comes down... again... to how we as individuals look at new discoveries and what possibilities they open.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/02/980227055013.htm

I am not basing my belief in God on the above experiment...I am just trying to show possibilities.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 5/29/2011 4:13:19 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to hardcybermaster)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Before the Big Bang: looking back in time - Paralle... - 5/29/2011 4:20:44 PM   
hardcybermaster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I guess it comes down... again... to how we as individuals look at new discoveries and what possibilities they open.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/02/980227055013.htm

I am not basing my belief in God on the above experiment...I am just trying to show possibilities.

Butch

if I could affect reality by looking at it my football team would not have been relagated..no seriously...I do believe that something like a god could exist but give me proof

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RE: Before the Big Bang: looking back in time - Paralle... - 5/29/2011 4:27:01 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		My response to this thread is not about proof but possibilities and the faith it takes to believe in them.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to hardcybermaster)
Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Before the Big Bang: looking back in time - Paralle... - 5/29/2011 4:28:28 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		You have not attempted to debunk my thought on the possibilities before creation...but here is another to think on.

I believe science in general is investigating with the majority of its resources half the mysteries of the cosmos...and not even the most important part.

Consciousness and it's meaning and workings are mostly ignored yet without a conscious observer to quantify the physical universe it could not exist.

The above is not gobbledygook but fact.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Before the Big Bang: looking back in time - Paralle... - 5/29/2011 4:33:10 PM   
hardcybermaster


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Status: offline 		It does take faith to believe, but my faith(possibly misguided) is in the human race,I want to believe that we won't destroy ourselves or the planet and every now and again I get some proof but I never get any proof of some devine being guiding us or looking after us

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RE: Before the Big Bang: looking back in time - Paralle... - 5/29/2011 4:34:12 PM   
FullCircle


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Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline 		There isn't anything special about consciousness. If you were born with no sensory input from the outside world, would you know you had a consciousness? Consciousness is based on memories of experiences. Without that you don't have consciousness, there is nothing mystical about it and sadly it ends with brain death.

All you are is contained in your brain, a collection of thoughts based on experiences. You think in ways you've experienced and what it would be like to experience things you haven't. You can't describe a sound with a colour or a colour with a sound unless you've created an association between the two based on experience. Consciousness is just experience, you don't even know you have it until you've collected enough experience to instantiate it.


< Message edited by FullCircle -- 5/29/2011 4:41:36 PM >

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RE: Before the Big Bang: looking back in time - Paralle... - 5/29/2011 4:36:57 PM   
hardcybermaster


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quote:

without a conscious observer to quantify the physical universe it could not exist.

so if we stop observing everything ceases to exist? Brilliant! so if no one looks at my cat he vanishes? Give me a minute and I can prove that one

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RE: Before the Big Bang: looking back in time - Paralle... - 5/29/2011 4:39:08 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Let us both think on it for awhile without prejudice. ..but tell me…when you die does the universe die with you?

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to FullCircle)
Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Before the Big Bang: looking back in time - Paralle... - 5/29/2011 4:41:35 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		You are thinking too shallow...with no consciousness in the universe... by the way that would include your cat...it would not exist...think again on it.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 5/29/2011 4:43:15 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to hardcybermaster)
Profile   Post #: 134
RE: Before the Big Bang: looking back in time - Paralle... - 5/29/2011 4:44:42 PM   
hardcybermaster


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Joined: 10/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Let us both think on it for awhile without prejudice. ..but tell me…when you die does the universe die with you?

no, I die and everyone and everything continues as it was,my parents and partner and friends are upset,lawyers make some money but the sun rises and sets and I am cremated and turned into a small urn full of ashes. As for the universe? It would a little arrogent to imagine that it gives a damn

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Before the Big Bang: looking back in time - Paralle... - 5/29/2011 4:45:23 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster

It does take faith to believe, but my faith(possibly misguided) is in the human race,I want to believe that we won't destroy ourselves or the planet and every now and again I get some proof but I never get any proof of some devine being guiding us or looking after us


My friend we hope for the same thing and perhaps the proof will be realized if we don't destroy ourselves.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to hardcybermaster)
Profile   Post #: 136
RE: Before the Big Bang: looking back in time - Paralle... - 5/29/2011 4:48:58 PM   
FullCircle


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Joined: 11/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Let us both think on it for awhile without prejudice. ..but tell me…when you die does the universe die with you?

For me it does.

The universe existed before I did and so I can presume it will continue to exist long after my death. I have no experience of the universe before I was alive thus if consciousness exists in a form which we tap into then why can't I remember things from before when I was born?

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∞ ﮒuקּƹɼ ƾɛϰưϫԼ Ƨωιϯϲћ.

(in reply to kdsub)
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RE: Before the Big Bang: looking back in time - Paralle... - 5/29/2011 4:51:45 PM   
hardcybermaster


Posts: 904
Joined: 10/6/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


quote:

ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster

It does take faith to believe, but my faith(possibly misguided) is in the human race,I want to believe that we won't destroy ourselves or the planet and every now and again I get some proof but I never get any proof of some devine being guiding us or looking after us


My friend we hope for the same thing and perhaps the proof will be realized if we don't destroy ourselves.

Butch

it's down to us and nobody else though.we have to make the decisions

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Before the Big Bang: looking back in time - Paralle... - 5/29/2011 4:54:27 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hardcybermaster


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Let us both think on it for awhile without prejudice. ..but tell me…when you die does the universe die with you?

no, I die and everyone and everything continues as it was,my parents and partner and friends are upset,lawyers make some money but the sun rises and sets and I am cremated and turned into a small urn full of ashes. As for the universe? It would a little arrogent to imagine that it gives a damn


But how will you know this is will be true. You will not be around to observe it...you are using faith in your beliefs. When you die the universe will cease to exist... The birth and death of stars...the transformation of your material body...all...will not have happened as far as you are concerned and if all consciousness ceases to exist then the universe will be right back where it started before creation.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to hardcybermaster)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Before the Big Bang: looking back in time - Paralle... - 5/29/2011 4:54:38 PM   
hardcybermaster


Posts: 904
Joined: 10/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Let us both think on it for awhile without prejudice. ..but tell me…when you die does the universe die with you?

For me it does.

The universe existed before I did and so I can presume it will continue to exist long after my death. I have no experience of the universe before I was alive thus if consciousness exists in a form which we tap into then why can't I remember things from before when I was born?

because you didn't exist!consciousness and memory are totally different things

(in reply to FullCircle)
Profile   Post #: 140
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