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RE: When Does Public Consent Matter? - 5/15/2006 11:37:28 PM

Reflectivesoul

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Michael . o O ( least I dont have flamin fingernails like some )

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RE: When Does Public Consent Matter? - 5/16/2006 2:45:52 AM

agirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vancouver_cinful

[
But, you don't get to choose who represents BDSM. You may or maynot want the Goreans to represent BDSM, you may or may not want the Adult Babies, to represent BDSM...but you don't get to choose that.

Cin

The fact that some people exercise their *freedom to express* or behave in ways of their choice is fine by me.......The only issue that I'd take is that I don't consider that they are either *fighting for me* or *standing up for some ideal* ....for me.

I don't consider that I come under any umbrella of *lifestyle*...I see myself as an individual and see others that way also. It's not that I'm always happy with the status quo but if I wish to represent something , or make a stand, it would be with the full knowledge that it's about me, my ideas, my thoughts and my drive that pushed me to do so.

I wouldn't consider that an adult baby wearing a diaper in public is representative of me or anything about me...I'd see it as an individual being an individual, full stop.

regards, agirl

< Message edited by agirl -- 5/16/2006 2:46:44 AM >

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RE: When Does Public Consent Matter? - 5/16/2006 3:45:51 AM

ScooterTrash

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Many good points have been brought up, probably the main one is simply "be aware of your surroundings". Pushing the envelope is one thing, ripping it apart is another. In the right setting, of course any particular public act may be acceptable, depends on the "public" you are in at the time. The collar and leash scenario is an apt example, no, in Denny's it might not be appropriate, but there are places where although it may raise an eyebrow, it won't get the local law on your tail either. I think discretion is a valuable trait to exercise when making these decisions. Some exposure can be for the good of all, and although many people feel that "they" are not being represented by these "others", sorry bout ya, you are indirectly being represented. But even though some exposure is good, crossing that line, pushing it past what the observer can tolerate or comprehend with what information they have to work with, could be seriously detrimental in the end. I think we all have some underlying responsibility to observe some tact and discretion when we bring lifestyle actions into the general public, but by the same token, I don't think we have to tippy toe around constantly looking over our shoulder either. WE, the collective WE, do have to reside in a predominantly "nilla" environment and although many of us feel we should be free to do as we please as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else, still have to bear the burden of presenting our choices in a palatable way and in proper proportions to bring "Joe Public" into a state of awareness, slowly and with as little discomfort as possible. Bringing their awareness to them kicking and screaming is likely not going to get the end result we are hoping for. Like trying a food they are unsure of, let them have a taste, a small morsel, then perhaps they can grasp the concept and take that bigger bite, at a later date. Feel free to do as you choose, just remember that what you do, like it or not, is a direct reflection, at least in the observers head, of more people than just yourself.

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RE: When Does Public Consent Matter? - 5/16/2006 3:56:39 AM

DavidS8ist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

Old fuddy-duddy here....

<snip>Rather than an obvious collar, I'd prefer the girl wore a more subtle equivalent that may get some wondering but not draw undue attention. At the local supermarket, part of the women's Winter uniform includes a kind of narrow scarf that always grabs my attention, even though it's not about D/s. I love subtle - sue me! lol

There are still lotsa ways to dominate in public without the lifestyle ignorant ever knowing and I enjoy that, too - it's just our little secret.... I don't mind if others wanna show who they are; it's just not for me.

Focus.

While I agree with this in the broadest strokes, a collar, per se, is simply a fashion statement in today's post-goth era. Hell, there are characters in TV shows ("NCIS" springs to mind) who dress in fetish garb (as if a naval investigator would be allowed goth apparel, makeup, and obvious tats on duty!).

It's not so much what we wear, but as you said, how we comport ourselves in public. No one will think anything of Gem quietly reaching for a Sweet 'n' Low and stirring it into my coffee at a restaurant, but I'd be sure to offend if I screamed, "Kneel, bitch" at the selfsame table.

D.

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RE: When Does Public Consent Matter? - 5/16/2006 3:58:14 AM

feastie

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Very well said, Scooter.

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RE: When Does Public Consent Matter? - 5/16/2006 4:01:20 AM

DavidS8ist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

The fact that some people exercise their *freedom to express* or behave in ways of their choice is fine by me.......The only issue that I'd take is that I don't consider that they are either *fighting for me* or *standing up for some ideal* ....for me.

I don't consider that I come under any umbrella of *lifestyle*...I see myself as an individual and see others that way also. It's not that I'm always happy with the status quo but if I wish to represent something , or make a stand, it would be with the full knowledge that it's about me, my ideas, my thoughts and my drive that pushed me to do so.

<snip>
regards, agirl

Can we have an AMEN here???!!! That's it in a nutshell. I will represent *me*, thank you very much. And I well make a stand for me as well. Neither will I seek validation from anyone but me and mine do define, explain, or defend my relationship(s).

D.

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RE: When Does Public Consent Matter? - 5/16/2006 4:53:59 AM

twicehappy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DavidS8ist

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

I don't consider that I come under any umbrella of *lifestyle*...I see myself as an individual and see others that way also. It's not that I'm always happy with the status quo but if I wish to represent something , or make a stand, it would be with the full knowledge that it's about me, my ideas, my thoughts and my drive that pushed me to do so.

Can we have an AMEN here???!!! That's it in a nutshell. I will represent *me*, thank you very much. And I well make a stand for me as well. relationship(s).

And yet surely you realize just like all of us who practice this lifestyle
(Whether or not you care to stand under the umbrella the general public will see you there) any and everything you do that is lifestyle related in a public venue will reflect on the bdsm community as a whole. Much like most bikers are not berserk murderers, druggies or rapist; when one of them behaves in this manner it reflects on bikers as a whole.

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RE: When Does Public Consent Matter? - 5/16/2006 5:24:48 AM

LadiesBladewing

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DavidS8ist

While I agree with this in the broadest strokes, a collar, per se, is simply a fashion statement in today's post-goth era. Hell, there are characters in TV shows ("NCIS" springs to mind) who dress in fetish garb (as if a naval investigator would be allowed goth apparel, makeup, and obvious tats on duty!).

It's not so much what we wear, but as you said, how we comport ourselves in public. No one will think anything of Gem quietly reaching for a Sweet 'n' Low and stirring it into my coffee at a restaurant, but I'd be sure to offend if I screamed, "Kneel, bitch" at the selfsame table.

D.

Actually, Abby is a civilian, and civilian's who work on a military base (especially those who are in demand, because of unusual skill-sets) aren't held to the military regs in terms of wardrobe and body mods. I had more than a few tattooed and pierced co-workers at a few of the projects I was on when my ex was in the Army and I worked as a civilian on base.

LZ

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RE: When Does Public Consent Matter? - 5/16/2006 10:58:27 AM

DavidS8ist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: twicehappy

And yet surely you realize just like all of us who practice this lifestyle
(Whether or not you care to stand under the umbrella the general public will see you there) any and everything you do that is lifestyle related in a public venue will reflect on the bdsm community as a whole. Much like most bikers are not berserk murderers, druggies or rapist; when one of them behaves in this manner it reflects on bikers as a whole.

While that is quite true as a generalization, I prefer to ignore those who would ascribe the behavior of an individual to a group. And I also prefer to associate with folks who evaluate an individual on his or her own merits and behavior.

That's probably why I don't buy into the "this lifestyle is about trust, respect, and honor" mantra, since so many I've met have and deserve none of those qualities. I like the fact that I've got to earn any respect I get, and that works fine for me.

But you're quite right: any "acting out" overtly in public is likely to cause folks to think that *we* think it's acceptable behavior.

I like to think I behave in all venues in the same way. To paraphrase the old fast food commercial, "manners is manners."

D.

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RE: When Does Public Consent Matter? - 5/16/2006 11:03:42 AM

DavidS8ist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadiesBladewing

Actually, Abby is a civilian, and civilian's who work on a military base (especially those who are in demand, because of unusual skill-sets) aren't held to the military regs in terms of wardrobe and body mods. I had more than a few tattooed and pierced co-workers at a few of the projects I was on when my ex was in the Army and I worked as a civilian on base.

LZ

Thanks LZ. I never knew that. I based my comment on an episode where they tried to enforce "sensible shoes" and a dress on her. Gibbs "forgave" the dress code.

Nice to know there's some sanity vis a vis civilians working in military establishments.

D.

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RE: When Does Public Consent Matter? - 5/16/2006 11:13:39 AM

VvShadowspawnvV

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hi Reflectivesoul =)

i don't think i've licked His boots in public... but He has a superball that it sometimes pleases Him to have me fetch when we are at the park.

becca

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RE: When Does Public Consent Matter? - 5/16/2006 12:14:55 PM

Najakcharmer

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I don't consider it ethical to expose minor children or nonconsenting people to blatant displays of sexuality. You could argue that D/s is not necessarily sexual so much as a relationship dynamic, but most people seeing a recognizable D/s interaction would consider it to be sexual or "kinky".

Some of it is also a matter of basic courtesy and taste. I have something of a....unique take on food and table manners. I have studied the eating customs and food taboos of too many cultures to feel anything but an anthropologist's detachment when I am told by yet another primitive society that I must not touch my food except with this ritual object (a fork) with the exceptions of these non-taboo foods under these circumstances (an ear of corn or a piece of cold fried chicken at a picnic). I am not impressed, and I regard these ritual taboos as ridiculously arbitrary and annoying. However, I am aware that if I express my chosen lifestyle and philosophy of eating in a public place, I am likely to upset and offend people. So when I eat in restaurants, I use the prescribed ritual items and refrain from the taboo behavior in order to show courtesy to the members of this tribe and its strange customs.

When I refer to my lifestyle and philosophy of eating, it encompasses somewhat more than just not bothering with a knife and fork. I kill my own meat and I don't spoil its texture any too much with that newfangled "fire" stuff. It's a very serious personal, spiritual and lifestyle choice for me. It is a core part who I am and what I do. But I recognize that doing it in front of people is likely to upset and offend them, so I have the courtesy and good taste to conduct myself according to local tribal custom even if I don't consider myself part of the tribe.

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RE: When Does Public Consent Matter? - 5/16/2006 12:19:14 PM

Najakcharmer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: allspicey

I kneel at home even when the 12 year old is here, just not as often and she thinks it's just Master and me having sweetheart time. Of course there WAS that time he slipped the Christmas present under the tree with "To My slave" written on it and she saw it and said..."Dad, is she your slave because she gets you coffee?". There was only one obvious answer to that.

While I'm certainly not going to go around trumpeting that you are causing harm to this child's delicate psyche, there are other folk who will. To wit, Child Protective Services.

It's happened before to others in our community. Showing kids your kink, even at this level, can and has been used as legal grounds for taking them away from you. Please be careful.

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RE: When Does Public Consent Matter? - 5/16/2006 3:22:28 PM

LadiesBladewing

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Typically, there is a "dress code" in certain civilian military positions, but specialists are often given a LOT of leeway. We had two computer programmers in the division offices that I worked in while my ex was stationed at Ft. Bragg (NC) who were a trip. I've never seen so many piercings in so many strange places (that can be seen in a muscle-t and shorts) in my LIFE! *chuckles*, and one of them was as gay as the 1890s, and had these little pink florescent tips on his hair... so cute, and SOOOoooo strange!

Lady Zephyr

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RE: When Does Public Consent Matter? - 5/16/2006 5:14:46 PM

Reflectivesoul

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becca,

I would see that as an appropriate avenue for that as well. I've taken boys on leashes in the park, but usually not at mid day, I wait untill early evening when things are slowed as to avoid too much stir in the general community. I also used to take them to the late night showing of the Rocky Horror Picture Show in full garb

although thats a bit different cause well that was an appropriately themed event.

~RS~

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RE: When Does Public Consent Matter? - 5/16/2006 5:31:50 PM

VvShadowspawnvV

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So, i was just wondering how come none of the behaviors which offend me have even been mentioned here? Personally, i don't care whether or not your slave's on a leash in the mall... just don't cut in front of me in line, grab things out from under my hand at the sales table, or take up more than one parking space for one car. =P

becca

PS- When Eddie said he didn't like his teddy you knew he was a no good kid.

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RE: When Does Public Consent Matter? - 5/16/2006 6:00:31 PM

Reflectivesoul

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becca,

I dunno, but taking a parking spot in front of me is liable to get your shit towed lol ( I have a brother with a tow truck lol ) Oh that pisses me off.....grrrr rawr even lol

But I think this started off as a when should you behave in public and should you kind of thing as far as D/s is concerned.

There are TONS of things the general public does that fluffs my feathers but to each their own I guess. I just dont make a point out of doing it back.

~RS~

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RE: When Does Public Consent Matter? - 5/16/2006 7:03:17 PM

VvShadowspawnvV

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i know how it started- but why does my behavior- which isn't rude to anyone, is, in fact, overly respectful- come under scrutiny while much of the "general public" wanders around spitting tobacco and cussing out waitresses? Heh- the way i see it, i'm setting a good example. *bitchbitch*

becca, who is suffering from a temporary overexposure to Nascar fans

Edited to point out that she will not be personally affronted if you wear your Jeff Gordon jacket in public. Just don't try to make me wear one. What? You'll accord me the same respect in regards to my collar? Thank you ever so!

=P

< Message edited by VvShadowspawnvV -- 5/16/2006 7:05:18 PM >

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RE: When Does Public Consent Matter? - 5/16/2006 7:12:56 PM

Reflectivesoul

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becca,

You're a trip lol. *hands you a lolli so you arena so grumpy anymore* lol

~RS~

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RE: When Does Public Consent Matter? - 5/16/2006 7:27:17 PM

VvShadowspawnvV

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*greatbighugelolly-loppin'grin* Watch out... imma give you sticky kisses.

Too bad you aren't closer- we could catch RHPS in Cambridge- it's awesome.

becca

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