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RE: Predators - 6/28/2011 11:40:16 AM   
SailingBum


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Ya know this all sounds like High school drama... "did you hear about lilmiss noname I heard shes a real fill in the blank" The gossips and the backbiting is precisely why I don't attend those types of functions. It happens at all events where "clickish ppl" hang out. It's all about choices and I prefer not to hang out with ppl that "label" other folks.

Last time I checked we are all adults here. I don't need someone to tell me "be careful that persons is a "whatever" I can make that determination on my own.

BadOne

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RE: Predators - 6/28/2011 11:43:38 AM   
LadyConstanze


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum



Last time I checked we are all adults here. I don't need someone to tell me "be careful that persons is a "whatever" I can make that determination on my own.




Good for you! I would have been grateful if the women who are also stalked by the same person would have come forward a bit earlier, apparently I must be daft, because until I disagreed with him he seemed quite nice and charming over several years, and then turned into a lunatic... Other women made the same experience but didn't say a world as none of them wanted to be the one that says something bad....


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RE: Predators - 6/28/2011 11:44:46 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscusx
And that is where the slippery slope comes in. We all know at least one woman who hides her bruises and says Oh he LOVVVVVVES me!


Christ, I don't!



Well, you might! I have friends who are survivors of long term abusive relationships. That is real time friends, plural. They know better now.


I should say, then, that none of my closest female friends has reported anything like that. I know about the phenomenon of women getting battered and trying to hide it, of course - but not seen or heard any signs of it amongst any of said friends.

Jeez, though, I remember going out to the pub one night with a good female friend who, at the time, was sporting a giant bruise on her nose and forehead after being hit by a football kicked by some kid in the local park. I heard growls directed at me from all around me. She and I felt we had to leave before I got pummelled . . . . People are on the watch-out for signs of that stuff.

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RE: Predators - 6/28/2011 12:36:08 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

Ya know this all sounds like High school drama... "did you hear about lilmiss noname I heard shes a real fill in the blank" The gossips and the backbiting is precisely why I don't attend those types of functions. It happens at all events where "clickish ppl" hang out. It's all about choices and I prefer not to hang out with ppl that "label" other folks.

Last time I checked we are all adults here. I don't need someone to tell me "be careful that persons is a "whatever" I can make that determination on my own.

BadOne



I am fine with letting people form their own opinions. I have reached the point where I will not be silent when I see someone who doesnt know differently being taken in by those I KNOW are just not going to behave in acceptable ways. I don't make people's choices for them, but I am letting them know that there is history that I was privy to.

It's really easy for we dominants to say that we can use our own judgment.

And SailingBum? Some of our local charmers are very popular indeed. Makes their job easier.

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RE: Predators - 6/28/2011 12:51:45 PM   
popularDemand


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I don't want anything, and I still creepy.

pD

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RE: Predators - 6/28/2011 12:55:54 PM   
Hisprettybaby


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I think predators come in all shapes and sizes, genders and sexual proclivities.

In my own life, before I discovered kink I dated this vanilla guy for a little while and then broke up with him. He became a complete and total asshat, stalking me, confronting me and pushing me into corners and such. I actually had to take it to court and get a no contact order. Another gal I know started dating him even though I told her how he operates. She broke up with him also and now he's doing the same thing to her. She took it to court also. The judge told him "Haven't we been down this road before?"

My own sub told me he had a bad experience well before he met me. When he was brand-new to subbing, a local Domme(or so she said) he was corresponding with by mail and on the phone seemed very nice and sounded safe. So their initial meeting was at her place(bad move of course). She seemed like a really great gal, but when she got him tied up something snapped in her and she seriously beat the living crap out of him....outright abuse.

There is also a young male Dom in our community that has turned out to be a repeat rapist. Last month, he raped a young female sub in the community. She was also VERY new to kink and actually a virgin. A lawyer in our local munch group checked out this young man's background and it turns out that he spent time in jail for raping a woman previously in another state, but no one was aware of it until the background check.

Now I'm in the position of educating people on personal safety, etc, so - hopefully - this doesn't happen again.

~Hisprettybaby~

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RE: Predators - 6/28/2011 1:04:37 PM   
SeekingRMSlave


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Excuse me, but, I've seen at least one person, on this thread, mention background checks. I am wondering, are there any threads or sites one can direct newbies to, as far as advice on how to obtain a background check, where from, and, why they are a good idea?
As to this "Last time I checked we are all adults here. I don't need someone to tell me "be careful that persons is a "whatever" I can make that determination on my own. " well, goody for you, but, not everyone can - and, most people can't, all the time. People need to watch out for each other, but, part of watching out for each other is not taking every statement about someone as gospel, because, it could be that the person spreading the rumor is the predator.
If you know that someone is a rapist, child molester, or, whatever, and, you see a potential victim going off with them, and, you do nothing to prevent it, you are just as sick as the person who is victimizing them, only in a different way.

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RE: Predators - 6/28/2011 1:26:13 PM   
DomImus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527
I don't think the BDSM community's focus on "helpless subs and all the roving gangs of street doms out to get them" helps anything. It turns all the subs into victims making it that much easier to drag out the "predator" statement. Without that, some dom had bad chemistry with a sub might well just be "that creepy guy" but add in the victim mindset and he's a predator.


I used to attend a local munch group. One month the discussion topic was about safety and the discussion leaned toward safety measures that the submissive should consider. So far so good. During the presenter's thirty minute monologue about safety I literally lost track of the number of times she used the phrase "body bag" as in ending up in one. If she was watching me at all she probably lost count of the number of times I rolled my eyes at her. You see the same thing here, though. True enough - bad things do occasionally happen to people. It's the law of averages at work it is good to take common sense measures to protect yourself. All it takes is one anecdotal reference to someone's bad experience to derail the discussion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Imus, you're zoning in on it.  Something about one person that another doesn't like.  Gender was an easy one, so I'm interested in looking at other factors.  Two male Doms with the same approach.  Are people quicker to decide one is 'creepy' but not the other due to physical appearance, age, or experience level?


How about connection level in the local community? You're considerably active in whatever local community life happens to have dropped you in. You have to have seen at least one situation where local popularity was the deciding factor.




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RE: Predators - 6/28/2011 1:41:20 PM   
Back2theFuture


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That is a low grade Psychopath not Sociopath.

A lot of people tend to mix them up a lot. And not all Sociopaths are malevolent. Most of them don't want to be bothered and a lot of the time you don't even notice them or know they are Sociopaths because they are good at hiding it.




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RE: Predators - 6/28/2011 1:54:41 PM   
LadyConstanze


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Not all of them are malevolent but the ones that are can wreck lives quite a bit...

http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

I don't see all that much difference to the behaviour of the guy you call a psychopath...

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RE: Predators - 6/28/2011 2:03:51 PM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

Ya know this all sounds like High school drama... "did you hear about lilmiss noname I heard shes a real fill in the blank" The gossips and the backbiting is precisely why I don't attend those types of functions. It happens at all events where "clickish ppl" hang out. It's all about choices and I prefer not to hang out with ppl that "label" other folks.

Last time I checked we are all adults here. I don't need someone to tell me "be careful that persons is a "whatever" I can make that determination on my own.

BadOne


Surprisingly enough, most of the time I agree with your comments. This is not one of those times. Your post is the kind of thing someone says who has never had to deal with a predator, and doesn't have a clue how hard they are to spot and how much damage they can do before you realize you've been taken, badly.

First, let me define the term predator as "one that victimizes, plunders, or destroys, especially for one's own gain." They are everywhere, not just in BDSM circles, but I do believe they are quite attracted to kink b/c of the numbers of  "victimy women with bad boundaries not taking responsibility for their actions." (quote from Kali)

Of course not all predators are male, and not all victims are women. But if you think they there are not that many floating around the general population (i.e. not in prison or the nutward), read the following excerpts from a Psychology Today article entitled: This Charming Psychopath, How to spot social predators before they attack.
These often charming—but always deadly—individuals have a clinical name: psychopaths. Their hallmark is a stunning lack of conscience; their game is self-gratification at the other person's expense. Many spend time in prison, but many do not. All take far more than they give.

  • Know what you are dealing with. This sounds easy but in fact can be very difficult. All the reading in the world cannot immunize you from the devastating effects of psychopaths. Everyone, including the experts, can be taken in, conned, and left bewildered by them. A good psychopath can play a concerto on anyone's heart strings.
  • Try not to be influenced by "props." It is not easy to get beyond the winning smile, the captivating body language, the fast talk of the typical psychopath, all of which blind us to his or her real intentions. Many people find it difficult to deal with the intense, "predatory state" of the psychopath. The fixated stare, is more a prelude to self-gratification and the exercise of power rather than simple interest or empathic caring.
  • Don't wear blinders. Enter new relationships with your eyes wide open. Like the rest of us, most psychopathic con artists and "love-thieves" initially hide their dark side by putting their "best foot forward." Cracks may soon begin to appear in the mask they wear, but once trapped in their web, it will be difficult to escape financially and emotionally unscathed.
  • Keep your guard up in high-risk situations. Some situations are tailor-made for psychopaths: singles bars, ship cruises, foreign airports, etc. In each case, the potential victim is lonely, looking for a good time, excitement, or companionship, and there will usually be someone willing to oblige, for a hidden price.
  • Know yourself. Psychopaths are skilled at detecting and ruthlessly exploiting your weak spots. Your best defense is to understand what these spots are, and to be extremely wary of anyone who zeroes in on them.
Here is a link to the entire article:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/199401/charming-psychopath



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RE: Predators - 6/28/2011 2:15:31 PM   
Hisprettybaby


Posts: 781
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OMG, ChatteParfaitt. That sounds exactly like my 'nilla ex-boyfriend. Also, I'm thinking if SailingBum ever comes across a psycho unknowingly and feels the pain, he will look at things a bit differently. Then again, maybe not. Who knows.

~Hisprettybaby~

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RE: Predators - 6/28/2011 2:34:43 PM   
MissAsylum


Posts: 1863
Joined: 1/9/2009
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~FR~

Taking out the kink element, i have more than a little bit of experience with "predators".

My social circle refers to people such as this as "creepers". As people have said in this thread already- they are people of habit. The "creepers" i know of try to befriend the girlfriends and/or wives (they ain't picky) of guys that they associate with.

Behaviors include:

-a constant presence on the woman's social networking profiles (twitter, facebook, etc)

-"showing up" to events that the women are going to be at

-becoming "snitches" on the male significant others

-making off collar comments

these are constant tendencies. my boyfriend has probably cut off 3 or 4 guys due to this.

Just interchange things in the list. they exist- kinky or not.


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RE: Predators - 6/28/2011 2:48:07 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
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Catching up a bit, so I'm just going to hit some highlights.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

It's my contention that predators have the BEST social skills. They are great at appearing smooth and friendly, and are often charming.

Successful predators, I would be inclined to think yes.  Again, I'm drawing the distinction between actual predators and those who might get the label too quickly or unfairly.  Good looking, smooth guy with decent rope skills doesn't get called a predator because he goes to the play party and asks a gal if she wants to do a bondage scene.  Does not so good looking guy, who is socially awkward, and has little experience get called creepy for doing the same thing?

quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan
I've been on the receiving end of this too, by someone I've never even met but managed to offend on a message board.    Yet one more reason I want nothing to do with my local "community" and avoid it like the plague.

I'm interested in this comment.  Would you care to expand?  While women on either side of the kneel definitely can be predators, I can't say that I've seen the misuse of the label for things as innocent as asking someone if they want to play at a party.  Let's face it.  A good looking woman such as yourself isn't going to get labeled as creepy by members of the opposite gender for staring at them too long.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze
You want to relive my past 10 months? <snip>

A case like this?  Yes, that's a stalker.  It's an appropriate term for the situation.  The actions matched the label.  Yet, don't we hear the same thing at the club for the guy who might be too shy to approach someone, so it seems like they are 'following' them, when he's really just getting up the nerve to say hello?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus
How about connection level in the local community? You're considerably active in whatever local community life happens to have dropped you in. You have to have seen at least one situation where local popularity was the deciding factor.

This might be part of what sparked My curiosity on the issue.  I've moved several times since I've been active in BDSM.  I don't get called a predator or creepy for some of the very same things that have come up in this thread.  I can go to a munch, talk about playing, and nobody bats an eye.  I'm a social person, so it's easy for Me to strike up conversations with people.  Staring?  I've definitely been known for someone's outfit or their shoes to catch My eye and to ask them where they bought this or that. 

Does it work that way for everyone?  Evidently not.  That's why I want to hear other experiences in this area.


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RE: Predators - 6/28/2011 3:07:56 PM   
Wolf2Bear


Posts: 3204
Joined: 9/6/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact


This might be part of what sparked My curiosity on the issue.  I've moved several times since I've been active in BDSM.  I don't get called a predator or creepy for some of the very same things that have come up in this thread.  I can go to a munch, talk about playing, and nobody bats an eye.  I'm a social person, so it's easy for Me to strike up conversations with people.  Staring?  I've definitely been known for someone's outfit or their shoes to catch My eye and to ask them where they bought this or that. 

Does it work that way for everyone?  Evidently not.  That's why I want to hear other experiences in this area.



What I have in bold is what I feel is the key to this entire post. It is a common for a person, often inexperienced males who are shy and insecure about themselves to gather up enough courage to easily approach another even just to start a conversation, which in most cases is innocent and without hidden motives. All I have to do is look at myself and see that 80-80% of the time when I am in a social situatuion, whether kink based or not, it is difficult to be as outgoing and very personable enough to feel comfortable to strike up a conversation with a stranger.

Could I be falsely labelled a predator because it takes me a while to socialize instead of sitting on the bench, being quiet and just watching everything...sure, and at the very least I've probably been called a freak or a creep. It is easy for people to say all I have to do is get out more, meet new people and force myself to interact even when I want to stay quiet and "hidden." Problem is, when a person hadn't had an upbringing that exposed them to a lot of social interactions and plus having a damn speech impediment that to this day proves to be a liability, it does do a major mindfuck and not in a good way either. Sadly even in this day and age, a person is always judged too quickly based on too little actual info about the person as a whole.


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RE: Predators - 6/28/2011 3:28:06 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


Posts: 8275
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From: Hell
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan
I've been on the receiving end of this too, by someone I've never even met but managed to offend on a message board.    Yet one more reason I want nothing to do with my local "community" and avoid it like the plague.

I'm interested in this comment.  Would you care to expand?  While women on either side of the kneel definitely can be predators, I can't say that I've seen the misuse of the label for things as innocent as asking someone if they want to play at a party.  Let's face it.  A good looking woman such as yourself isn't going to get labeled as creepy by members of the opposite gender for staring at them too long.


It's long and convoluted so I'll try to give you Reader's Digest version.  Regarding the highlighted portion, yes we will if we turn them down.  How many times have you heard the women here complain about rude messages from guys they rejected?  In real life, it's worse.
 
The situation came about while I was working with the local TNG group.  A switch guy I'd met (and turned down as my sub), decided that he wanted to take control of the TNG group when the two leaders went back to college.  He decided to take it upon himself to organize a play party.  However, he hadn't put nearly as much thought into planning as I felt like needed to happen and I said so on the group's Fet message board.  I flat out said that three weeks wasn't enough time to plan the group's first play party and bluntly pointed out all the areas where planning was lacking.  I told the group leaders that a play party was feasible, just not in the time frame he wanted to do it. 
 
Two of the guy's little female friends decided they didn't like me and they are members of several of the other groups in town.  I got a call from a guy I met through my non-kinky Meetup group telling me that they were going around to all the munches telling people that I was a predator and that Spyder and I were using the TNG group to troll for young women among other things.  My buddy wanted to get my side of the story because he couldn't believe what he was hearing.
 
As it turns out, one of the two women has a history of twisting the truth and/or outright fabricating stories about people she doesn't like and getting them kicked out of groups and banned from events.  I'm not sure if she acted on her own or the switch guy put her up to it.  I would not be surprised either way.
 
I had to jump through a lot of hoops, including granting temporary access to my FetLife account to the TNG group leaders, to prove the Drama Llamas were lying.  It was stupid, juvenile, and not something I care to repeat.  The sad part is that this is what passes for normal in my area.

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RE: Predators - 6/28/2011 3:42:56 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
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Swear to "Bob", Syl, we live in the same corner of the twilight zone.

LP, your OP was about predators, not "creepy guys". Creepy is very subjective, and to my mind, annoying at worst. Not the same thing at all.

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RE: Predators - 6/28/2011 3:47:01 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


Posts: 8275
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From: Hell
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Swear to "Bob", Syl, we live in the same corner of the twilight zone.



Don't I know it!  Swear to Bob it's gotta be a Midwest thing because I do not hear about this level of stoopid in other places. 

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RE: Predators - 6/28/2011 3:48:27 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
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Is Kentucky the Midwest? Lexington is a festival of fail.

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RE: Predators - 6/28/2011 3:54:26 PM   
SylvereApLeanan


Posts: 8275
Joined: 11/1/2007
From: Hell
Status: offline
Appalachia is its own "speshul" brand of Epic Fail from what I've heard.  My best friend is from eastern Kentucky and even he says it's a nightmare.

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Dark Muse
30 Fluffy Points
Grumpy Cat is my spirit animal.
Shadow Governess & Mean Girl
"There's something that doesn't make sense. Let's go and poke it with a stick."— The Doctor

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Profile   Post #: 60
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