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RE: Morals and values - 1/22/2012 5:27:37 PM   
Epytropos


Posts: 699
Joined: 7/23/2011
Status: offline 		Never trust a cheater, even one you made yourself.

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(in reply to Ishtarr)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Morals and values - 1/22/2012 5:28:35 PM   
BootyBoy


Posts: 108
Joined: 7/29/2008
Status: offline 		Wait... Are you saying that you're married and seeking (and she knows and agrees) or are you saying that you're married and and she doesn't know (and it would probably break her heart).

Which scenario are you asking about?

Oh, and would you care if she's been sleeping with your best friend for the past 6 months.

(in reply to xxblushesxx)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Morals and values - 1/22/2012 5:32:00 PM   
seababy


Posts: 845
Joined: 6/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

1. Nonconsensual and lying.
2. Honest and between two consenting adults.
3. It's no one's business what I do in my bedroom and that is exactly the same view I held when I was vanilla.



This.



(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Morals and values - 1/22/2012 6:22:40 PM   
BootyBoy


Posts: 108
Joined: 7/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Whenready

This is a spin off from another thread.

1) I'm married and seeking. Some people find that unacceptable. I'm comfortable with that, and with their holding the view that what I do is dishonest. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

2) Changing tack, spanking is - in some states and some countries, viewed as assault.

3) I have the impression that most people here are - at the very least - discreet - about their bdsm activities in their vanilla activities. I certainly am.

So - I'm not having a go at anyone here - I'm asking out of curiousity - where is "honest" for you? If bdsm is fine, why do we appear to need to hide it? And if we need to hide it, does that not imply a moral conundrum? Are all or any of the above examples "right" or "wrong" and where is the line for you?


1) The first moral question isn't too hard to decipher. It's the basic morality of an honored contract. If people do not honor (or are not held to honor) such contracts, then there could be no civilization. There would be no laws, because they would change every day. There would be no trade or business, because most of the time, when you payed or gave a service, the other party would just stiff you. Obviously, the most basic level of morality is to keep your word. Without that, there is nothing. Nobody is forcing people to get married, but once a person IS married then they should honor that contract until it is nullified.

2) Name the country? Name the State? To my knowledge, spanking is only seen as assault, if it is injurious and non-consensual.

3) As far as hiding BDSM, or being discreet about it, this does not imply a feeling of guilt at doing something wrong. You may "hide" how much money you make, for many reasons--none of them being because it's wrong to make as much money as you do. You may "hide" your love watching Barney the dinosaur. You may not tell anybody that your pajamas have footsies sewn on. None of these things are immoral.

But on a more practical level, you may not fancy trying to explain BDSM to your grandmother, or your boss, or your childhood doctor. it may not be wrong, but people make choices every day what they will tell certain people and what they will not. That doesn't imply guilt, but rather, expediency. If I don't wish to explain all of my fetishes to my mom, or aunt, or co-workers, then that's OK. I can make choices that make that eventuality much less likely. (Like not plastering my mug all across the Internet) Other people don't have the same concerns and so can choose differently, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with morality.

So, if you were trying to use this as some kind of conditional ethics primer, then you are far off base.

(in reply to Whenready)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Morals and values - 1/22/2012 6:25:24 PM   
RexCorvus


Posts: 84
Joined: 11/27/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Whenready
1) I'm married and seeking. Some people find that unacceptable.

I'm going to assume you're seeking without your spouse's knowledge and consent. If that's an incorrect assumption some of the rest of this will be off base, but in my experience anyone who mentions that they're married and seeking but doesn't include some kind of "and my spouse knows" caveat is going behind their partner's back.

quote:


I'm comfortable with that, and with their holding the view that what I do is dishonest. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

I would argue it's not a matter of opinion, but fact. What you're doing is dishonest. You might get a variety of opinions on whether or not your dishonesty is justified, or a big deal, or qualifies you as a bad person, but I can't really imagine how someone could claim there's no dishonesty involved.

quote:


2) Changing tack, spanking is - in some states and some countries, viewed as assault.

So what? Various laws in differing states, much less countries, are in direct opposition to one another. I don't even know the laws regarding sex and BDSM in Tennessee. My guess is that the local District Attorney doesn't either. What's that got to do with honesty?

quote:


3) I have the impression that most people here are - at the very least - discreet - about their bdsm activities in their vanilla activities. I certainly am.

For some definition of discreet, sure. But you're conflating two very different things: not telling people who have no stake in one's sex life (like your parents or co-workers) vs. not telling those who have every right to know the full truth. I can guess why this line of reasoning appeals to you: if other people not being 100% open with everyone about their love of kink is dishonest, then really how can they judge you for being dishonest with their wife? Once you make that leap then the difference between you and every other kinkster who's not completely out about their sex life is just a matter of degree. I'm sorry, but I don't buy into that. There's nothing dishonest about not telling people I enjoy bondage, or that my wife and I are poly. For many people their sex life is a very private thing, and even those who share details with a larger sphere of people get decide just how large that sphere is. There's no moral conundrum here that I can see.

(in reply to Whenready)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Morals and values - 1/22/2012 6:31:07 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Well, lets see... lying to someone who in my opinion should be your best friend is a bit different than breaking a law that is made by people you don't know and hurts no one really... doesn't break trust, harm relationships, break up families, etc, cannot be compared and trying to compare them sounds like justification of some sort to me. Hiding a personal choice in my bedroom from business partners or anyone else isn't a lie. You cannot compare lying to a spouse that you have vowed to honor and love to hiding a personal aspect of your life that shouldn't be anyone elses business.

Why would you, mr op, even think of the two in relation to one another?

As for lying to a spouse about something that would rock their world, cause extreme personal harm and could cause a family upheaval... I see as a huge crime against self and all involved. A crime of personal damage that you have no right to do and I couldn't find it acceptable in any manner. If you wish to make it a moral issue... go for it... but it is an honor and love issue in my opinion and you cannot have either if you do it. If you can lie to your best friend, I wouldn't trust you in business or anything else.


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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Morals and values - 1/22/2012 6:33:23 PM   
Baroana


Posts: 1480
Joined: 11/13/2011
Status: offline
quote:

BootyBoy:

quote:

Whenready:

spanking is - in some states and some countries, viewed as assault.

Name the country? Name the State? To my knowledge, spanking is only seen as assault, if it is injurious and non-consensual.



Point of law, OP is actually correct there. Minor S&M with no actual injury is often legal. However, criminal law generally does not recognize consent as a defense to battery.

(in reply to BootyBoy)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Morals and values - 1/22/2012 6:33:27 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		The fact that I don't sit down at Thanksgiving and ask my sister if she got it in the ass doesn't mean I hide what I am. Just that I don't want to know what she's doing or not doing, and I don't want her to know about me getting tied up and spanked. I'm not ashamed of it, it just isn't appropriate to talk to anyone who isn't in my relationship about what I like sexually. Bluntly, it's none of their business excepting my therapist and my physician.

The fact that there are laws on the books in certain states that exempt only contact sports and not similar styles of sex from assault means nothing to me. Nobody's looking in my window to call the cops, and if they did I would challenge the law. If I can sign a waiver permitting my teen to play football, I can certainly sign one for myself.

Your ingenious attempt to remove blame from yourself from cheating, and to try to convince us to cheat with you, is duly noted and ignored. Worse, the fact that you would even attempt this shows you to be beneath contempt. If you don't care if your marriage would end when your spouse finds out, that's fine. It by no means requires me to be involved in the clusterfuck. Find someone else who also is unhappily married and get together. But most of us want a relationship, not a hidden affair. If I can't call you up when I need surgery to bring me to and from the hospital and take care of me, to come for me when my car breaks down, then I don't need you. That's my bottom line. And the only one it has to work for is me.


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(in reply to Ishtarr)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Morals and values - 1/22/2012 6:36:53 PM   
Epytropos


Posts: 699
Joined: 7/23/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Baroana

quote:

BootyBoy:

quote:

Whenready:

spanking is - in some states and some countries, viewed as assault.

Name the country? Name the State? To my knowledge, spanking is only seen as assault, if it is injurious and non-consensual.



Point of law, OP is actually correct there. Minor S&M with no actual injury is often legal. However, criminal law generally does not recognize consent as a defense to battery.



I find it entertaining that doing it to children is a fundamental right, whereas doing it to adults is illegal even with consent. And by entertaining, I mean saddening. What the fuck is wrong with this country?

_____________________________

They're only words. Don't dwell on them. They never mean what you think.

I speak only of My Way. Think it not an indictment of Your Way.

(in reply to Baroana)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Morals and values - 1/22/2012 7:00:09 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		To the OP
As a married person, I find it much easier to get along in life not being an assumed cheater.
It doesnt colour peoples attitudes so much.
Mostly
Regarding spanking, and BDSM, morality comes into it alot, you can do many things to lessen your liability tho without outright lying.
Im extremely lucky in that I have pretty much freedom to say and do what I wish, because I dont hide what I am or do. However I do have respect for my kids, their friends and my other family and including my old man*hubby* and I dont flaunt it wehn I am around them.


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(in reply to Epytropos)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Morals and values - 1/22/2012 7:02:42 PM   
BootyBoy


Posts: 108
Joined: 7/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Baroana

quote:

BootyBoy:

quote:

Whenready:

spanking is - in some states and some countries, viewed as assault.

Name the country? Name the State? To my knowledge, spanking is only seen as assault, if it is injurious and non-consensual.



Point of law, OP is actually correct there. Minor S&M with no actual injury is often legal. However, criminal law generally does not recognize consent as a defense to battery.



True, that is why I was saying that it would have to be "injurious." But you're right, I should not have linked the injury together with consent because It gave the impression that a a consensual injurious event would be seen as non-criminal.

(in reply to Baroana)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Morals and values - 1/22/2012 7:03:28 PM   
MistressDarkArt


Posts: 5178
Status: offline 		1) Have you such little interest in your profile you're here to smoke out the microscopic population that won't find cheating damnable?

2) Consenting adults, et al...

3) I feel no need to hide my lifestyle proclivities, nor do I feel a need to walk around in a sandwich sign proclaiming them. I'm comfortable in all my elements, vanilla and otherwise.

(in reply to Whenready)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Morals and values - 1/22/2012 7:21:34 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

Those I've met have been told my & my wife's circumstances - because at that stage it does become their business.
Well, he hints at "circumstances"....

But the bottom line is if you know that your actions would hurt your wife....and you do it anyway...it's dishonest.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to MistressDarkArt)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Morals and values - 1/22/2012 7:32:57 PM   
Baroana


Posts: 1480
Joined: 11/13/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Epytropos


quote:

ORIGINAL: Baroana

quote:

BootyBoy:

quote:

Whenready:

spanking is - in some states and some countries, viewed as assault.

Name the country? Name the State? To my knowledge, spanking is only seen as assault, if it is injurious and non-consensual.



Point of law, OP is actually correct there. Minor S&M with no actual injury is often legal. However, criminal law generally does not recognize consent as a defense to battery.



I find it entertaining that doing it to children is a fundamental right, whereas doing it to adults is illegal even with consent. And by entertaining, I mean saddening. What the fuck is wrong with this country?

People do not get to injure their kids either.

(in reply to Epytropos)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Morals and values - 1/22/2012 7:41:43 PM   
Baroana


Posts: 1480
Joined: 11/13/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

Those I've met have been told my & my wife's circumstances - because at that stage it does become their business.
Well, he hints at "circumstances"....

But the bottom line is if you know that your actions would hurt your wife....and you do it anyway...it's dishonest.


This is a pointless discussion, but I'll bite. I have come across many married men online who tell me their "circumstances." Usually, the "circumstances" (according to him) are that "We're not in love anymore," "We're basically just friends at this point," "We're together strictly for the sake of the kids," blah blah blah. Sometimes he'll go the route of describing his wife as a shrew who is unconcerned with his needs or his happiness. Whether it's true or not, the object is to make the other woman accept the idea that violating the marriage is ok under such "circumstances."

Of course, cheating married women do the same thing. For them, the "circumstances" will often involve some story of abuse.

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Morals and values - 1/22/2012 8:17:24 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		1. Married and cheating is different from married and consensual.  The first is wrong and the second is sorta okay.  (I say sorta because I've found some situations where one spouse basically says "Fine, scratch your itch, but I don't wanna know what you're doing".)

2. Here we can see the difference between case law and written law.  Written law would agree with you, that consensual spanking could be considered assault.  However, cops are very leery of getting involved in domestic situations, and I would be surprised if any would press charges for a consensual spanking.

3. Why do I hide my interest in kink?  Well, I don't like sharing ANY of my bedroom life with vanilla folks and any sharing at work could be construed as harassment.

Plus, people would look down on me if they weren't open-minded.  Why should I get that hassle?


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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Morals and values - 1/22/2012 8:27:26 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		by my moral standards, lying and cheating are wrong and immoral and against mine.

By my moral standards I don't hide what I do either, but I also don't shout it from the rooftops. If someone was to ask me I'd straight up tell you.

It sounds like you're trying to justify what you are doing because you know it's wrong but instead you are saying "hey you're all like me so don't tell me what I'm doing is wrong!".  Sorry, dude, it doesn't work that way.

Now if your husband/wife knows what you're doing and gives their blessing then I'm ok with that...still not my thing but as long as everyone knows then whatever.

Sorry, zero sympathy for ya.



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Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Morals and values - 1/22/2012 8:30:41 PM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Baroana

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

Those I've met have been told my & my wife's circumstances - because at that stage it does become their business.
Well, he hints at "circumstances"....

But the bottom line is if you know that your actions would hurt your wife....and you do it anyway...it's dishonest.


This is a pointless discussion, but I'll bite. I have come across many married men online who tell me their "circumstances." Usually, the "circumstances" (according to him) are that "We're not in love anymore," "We're basically just friends at this point," "We're together strictly for the sake of the kids," blah blah blah. Sometimes he'll go the route of describing his wife as a shrew who is unconcerned with his needs or his happiness. Whether it's true or not, the object is to make the other woman accept the idea that violating the marriage is ok under such "circumstances."

Of course, cheating married women do the same thing. For them, the "circumstances" will often involve some story of abuse.

Oh I absolutely agree...that's why the "circumstances"...


_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to Baroana)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Morals and values - 1/22/2012 8:35:06 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

Those I've met have been told my & my wife's circumstances - because at that stage it does become their business.
Well, he hints at "circumstances"....

But the bottom line is if you know that your actions would hurt your wife....and you do it anyway...it's dishonest.


I've lost count of  how many people, both male and female use that line about circumstances.

Those circumstances are almost always the same when I ask them more questions:

My wife/husband doesn't like sex, won't let me even touch him/her.

So then I usually ask them why they think that is....what exactly have they done for their partner lately besides cheat as an excuse to "circumstances".

And always...always, the same thing happens. They shut up and run away with their tails between their legs lol.

I love that....circumstances lol.



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Everything has changed

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Morals and values - 1/22/2012 8:45:14 PM   
xxblushesxx


Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BootyBoy

Wait... Are you saying that you're married and seeking (and she knows and agrees) or are you saying that you're married and and she doesn't know (and it would probably break her heart).

Which scenario are you asking about?

Oh, and would you care if she's been sleeping with your best friend for the past 6 months.


And this is why I stalk bootyboy's posts. He's right. He's thoughtful. He tells it to you straight.
There should be more BootyBoys in this world.
(wouldn't that last sentence make a great t-shirt?)

_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com


(in reply to BootyBoy)
Profile   Post #: 40
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