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RE: Morals and values - 1/24/2012 9:50:22 AM   
Ishtarr


Posts: 1130
Joined: 4/30/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Whenready

It's any bdsm she is opposed to. My first choice is to continue my marriage. That's her choice too (of course you only have my word for that - I accept that caveat).



You are misrepresenting her first choice, both to us and to yourself.

Her first choice is to continue the marriage WHILE you abstain from BDSM.

That choice does not include you discreetly partaking in BDSM behind her back. That choice is BASED on the notion that you will abstain in order to continue the marriage.

If you decide that YOUR first choice is to continue the marriage while discreetly partaking in BDSM, you need to tell this to her, so that she has the actual information needed to decide whether or not she still wants to continue the marriage under those circumstances.

If she does not want to continue the marriage under those circumstances, then it is NOT her first choice to continue the marriage while you secretly cheat on her, like you are currently implying it is.

If her first choice would actually be to continue the marriage while you discreetly partake in BDSM with others, then that would remain her choice after you told her that that is what you will do.

Bottom line is still the same, despite what you claim her first choice is, or what you think to know her first choice is: you need to tell her.

Unless and until you tell her, she doesn't actually have a choice, because she doesn't have all necessary information available to her that she needs in order to be capable of actually making a choice.

Despite the fact that she said she wants to continue the marriage, unless you tell her you are bullying her into a situation that she never chose at all... despite what you keep telling yourself and us.



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(in reply to Whenready)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Morals and values - 1/24/2012 10:22:24 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Whenready


I have tried to talk in this thread about honesty and dishonesty - using my marriage as one example. I have also tried to avoid this thread becoming solely about my dishonesty.
I don't think I would consider it flat out dishonest. She has said, "go ahead, but don't tell me". But, I don't really find it 100% ethical either. She's been backed into a corner with two choices which were: 1) Lose her husband or 2) Tolerate his extra marital affairs. She chose what she thought was the lesser of two evils.

quote:

I've been involved in D/s long enough to know that trust is just as important in D/s as in marriage - and that one consequence of my being married is that that means that some will NOT trust me because I am looking for something outside my marriage that I cannot fulfil inside it.
Being involved with someone that thinks his dick is more important than his marriage, doesn't instill confidence that any outside relationship would be anything other than disposable.



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Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to Whenready)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Morals and values - 1/24/2012 10:57:44 AM   
xxblushesxx


Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		But did she really say that? Who knows? We only have one person's word for it, and he's not very trustworthy as far as I'm concerned.

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A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

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Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Morals and values - 1/24/2012 11:06:34 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		In my nearly 50 years I have yet to meet a woman that would say that. And even IF one did say it, knowing women like I do, I wouldn't believe it. I would be watching my ass, waiting for the private dick she had trailing me, to get the goods so she can nail my ass to the divorce cross.

Just saying.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to xxblushesxx)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Morals and values - 1/24/2012 11:11:55 AM   
lizi


Posts: 4673
Joined: 2/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

In my nearly 50 years I have yet to meet a woman that would say that. And even IF one did say it, knowing women like I do, I wouldn't believe it. I would be watching my ass, waiting for the private dick she had trailing me, to get the goods so she can nail my ass to the divorce cross.

Just saying.



I agree. It's been my experience that any woman I'm aware of who has said it didn't really mean it - said it because she felt it was either that or lose the guy, but she's not on board with the whole seeing other's and not let me know about it thing. In fact in another thread recently an attractive young lady said her Dom/bf had the right to see others, she just didn't want to know about it. I can't say I believed that poster as being female either, and of course there are other reasons not to think 'she' is.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Morals and values - 1/24/2012 11:18:28 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		I don't flaunt it. People may know I indulge, or know that I once ran a group of pervs, but most people do not know what I do. Sometimes I even have sex whether that is nilla or kinked, I also do not flaunt that. I don't see the need to raise a banner that says I like being hurt, tortured, or abused, OR that I love being sexually penetrated. Why would there be a conundrum in desiring private acts to remain private?
If there was sexual theater where people could buy tickets to see people having sex or being tortured and that was normal theater, I STILL would not feel a need to advertise my private activity. I don't hide it. I choose to keep intimate matters for those with whom I am intimate.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Whenready

I'm asking out of curiousity - where is "honest" for you? If bdsm is fine, why do we appear to need to hide it? And if we need to hide it, does that not imply a moral conundrum? Are all or any of the above examples "right" or "wrong" and where is the line for you? Thoughts?



_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to Whenready)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Morals and values - 1/24/2012 11:20:30 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline 		Found on Craigslist:

quote:


$10,000
06' Suzuki GSXR 1000
Farmington, UT 84025 - Aug 7, 2006

2006 Suzuki 1000. This bike is perfect! It has 1000 miles and has had its 500 mile dealer service. (Expensive) It's been adult ridden, all wheels have always been on the ground. I use it as a cruiser/commuter. I'm selling it because it was purchased without proper consent of a loving wife. Apparently "Do whatever the hell you want" doesn't mean what I thought. Call me, Steve... (801)xxx-xxxx


_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to lizi)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Morals and values - 1/24/2012 11:21:39 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Oh that is priceless!

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Morals and values - 1/24/2012 12:02:38 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		LMAO..
Whew finally finished reading this thing.
I have met several guys who gave me the old line "my wife knows but she doesn't want to know" speel. I have to say I just don't get it. When I was married I did know about his cheating. Though he tried to be discreet he was sloppy about it. Once early in our marriage when the other woman found me I did hear about how I should leave him if I wasn't happy with sex.... not knowing that that man banged me every night we were married, even after each child. She had assumed that I stayed for the kids. I stayed because I promised to stay, period. I did not stray because that promise was also there. And because of that promise I even gave the marriage a chance to recover. But the rules were different for him. I finally got out when the lies he told were too numerous to be concealed and his gf of that time became more important than I or our kids.
It was my escape. Finally. Because everything was out in the open and I could make the choice without regret. Truth is wonderful.
Knowing but not wanting to be told is a cop out. Unless the people involved know all the details than you just have a fire smouldering in the basement ready for that door to open and the house to burn down.
I stayed in my marriage until the door opened for me to run.
If you are going to play at least give your opponent the rules of the game.


quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

Found on Craigslist:

quote:


Apparently "Do whatever the hell you want" doesn't mean what I thought. Call me, Steve... (801)xxx-xxxx




_____________________________

pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding ~Gibran, Kahlil

“The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for.”
― Bob Marley


(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Morals and values - 1/24/2012 12:03:17 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		I'm on board with a number of these comments.

Generally, what I have found when there is a situation where a spouse implies that the other should just go and do it, but don't tell them about it, is because if they heard it, that would be too difficult for them to handle.  In other words, they actually are telling you that the actions would be harmful to them.  If that's the case, now we're looking at an additional area of is what you are doing harmful, as well as lacking honesty?

In all seriousness, I never understand threads like these.  Somehow, when a person is faced with the decision of whether or not they will abstain from BDSM that is pretty much based on what their spouse has answered on the topic, the idea that they should pass barely gets mentioned.  Even better, it always gets described as a need for kinky pleasures, as though a person has no way to resist the temptation.  It's a crock.  Why not just come out and say that you want the involvement in BDSM related activities and that want takes precedence over the rest of the situation?  I mean, if you want to have a thread about honesty, wouldn't it make sense to have some of it in the terms that get used?

The other part that I never understand about threads like these is the implied notion that it is the vanilla person at home who is the one who should take on the responsibility of changing who they are.  There's nothing wrong with people who prefer vanilla sex any more than there is anything wrong with those who enjoy kinky sex.  If desires could be changed so easily, then I would like to suggest that Mr. Ready go right ahead and change the desires of his own to match the kind of sex life that Mrs Ready figured was going to be a part of her world.  It seems to Me that she has some right to that expectation, if that was what she was led to believe when she married the man.

She had two affairs?  Well, there's a surprise.  Not that I'm condoning such actions, but I'll be the first to tell you that, as a female, if I get the impression that My sexual escapades are being seen as less than or not good enough in some way, you're just priming the woman to seek out a man who doesn't have the same view.  Even if the matter was handled gracefully, can't you just imagine what goes on in the back of the woman's head about *not* being what her spouse wants sexually *unless* she becomes something else?  That's pretty darn hurtful if you ask Me.

I guess it does just go to show that what people can or can't live with really is a variable.  I'm the type that would have just as gladly remained out of the kink world if that was the decision that My husband and I came to on the matter.  I still would if it came to that.


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(in reply to lizi)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Morals and values - 1/24/2012 12:22:21 PM   
xXLithiumXx


Posts: 723
Joined: 9/2/2008
From: Hell, Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

Found on Craigslist:

quote:


$10,000
06' Suzuki GSXR 1000
Farmington, UT 84025 - Aug 7, 2006

2006 Suzuki 1000. This bike is perfect! It has 1000 miles and has had its 500 mile dealer service. (Expensive) It's been adult ridden, all wheels have always been on the ground. I use it as a cruiser/commuter. I'm selling it because it was purchased without proper consent of a loving wife. Apparently "Do whatever the hell you want" doesn't mean what I thought. Call me, Steve... (801)xxx-xxxx




LMAO.

That is amazing.

_____________________________

If Barbie is so popular, why do you have to buy her friends?

Ideas don't stay in some minds very long because they don't like solitary confinement


You have to believe in yourself. -Tsun Tzu-

Resident Malkavian.

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Morals and values - 1/25/2012 4:15:48 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		I have actually known women to say go do whatever you want, but what they don't say is that they don't believe he'll ever find someone. Once they discover he did go do what he wanted, then they claim they didn't say it.

I suggest you have this discussion with her again. Lay down ground rules for you to step outside the marriage and her to do so. She's had two affairs, she'll probably have more.

Are the two of you allowed to become emotionally intimate, or only physically? Is sex okay but not kissing? Decide what you both need to make this work.



< Message edited by DesFIP -- 1/25/2012 4:34:35 PM >

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(in reply to xXLithiumXx)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Morals and values - 1/27/2012 6:19:24 PM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline
quote:

So - I'm not having a go at anyone here - I'm asking out of curiousity - where is "honest" for you? If bdsm is fine, why do we appear to need to hide it? And if we need to hide it, does that not imply a moral conundrum? Are all or any of the above examples "right" or "wrong" and where is the line for you? Thoughts?
Discretion is the better part of valor.

You could call it a cop out but the world is what it is, and really, is wearing on your sleeve necessary? I mean, if you want to and can afford to, go for it, on the one hand, sex is a private thing, I don't go around asking evangelicals how, when and how often they have sex, I'm pretty sure I have no desire to know, I'm not sure why they find what I do so fascinating.

Ah, because sexuality is a thing we all share, it's part of the human condition, cause for both consideration and celebration, traditionally, and traditionally there has pretty much forever been some dispute over where exactly the boundaries are.

Your Two previous examples are essentially questions of personal morlity and ethics, and/or matters of legality, which our honorable Anglo-Saxon legal system has evolved to resolve on a case by case basis if you can't, with all the fact of the case, since no two cases are alike.

i.e., there is no general answer to those - is the spouse aware of your extramarital activities or is deception involved? Could cost you half your shit to find out whether that's right or wrong.

The second example is largely a matter of who is aware that a spanking has occurred, whether or not they find it objectionable, and to what lengths they desire to pursue the charge.

I'm just guessing you're mostly interested in the first thing, or are they related?

You spanked somebody and they're threatening to tell your wife, so you're trying to decide whether to proclaim your indiscretion and throw yourself on the mercy of the court, or maybe try to bullshit your way out of it, or keep your trap shut and sweat it out?

Just curious, I'm bored.

(in reply to Whenready)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Morals and values - 1/27/2012 6:26:26 PM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Whenready

Thanks for responses all, especially ML, booty boy & dark steven.

I asked the question because I wanted to know what people thought, not to find someone (that's what the profile is for) or because I was looking to justify what I do.

Dark Steven hit the "circumstances" nail on the head. (Scratch your itch; I don't want to know) - and I go along with his "sorta ok". So yes, I'm wrong in what I do, but it's a wrong I can live with - and she can live with - and I fully accept its one others can't.

ML said Very simply - wrong is when my actions negatively affect others, or where they run a real risk of negatively affecting others. I agree with what he says, but my question was also (in SOME places) "the law says this is wrong - but we do it anyway because we're consenting". A number have people have commented on "x is wrong but I can live with y" (I'm oversimplifying) which answers my question.

Booty's answer was clear & well thought out - thank you one and all.
Ok, in that case, since you have (lukewarm) approval, then keep that shit to yourself, don't rub his/her nose in it, that's just cruel.

Line from a movie, Nick Nolte's character on the same subject: "carry your own water".

(in reply to Whenready)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Morals and values - 1/27/2012 6:52:12 PM   
LizDeluxe


Posts: 687
Joined: 10/2/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Whenready
1) I'm married and seeking. Some people find that unacceptable. I'm comfortable with that, and with their holding the view that what I do is dishonest. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.


Does your spouse know about this and condone this or at least consent to it even if begrudgingly so? If so then it's all good. If not (and you are hiding it from them) then it is dishonest and that's not an opinion.

(in reply to Whenready)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Morals and values - 1/27/2012 6:52:16 PM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

In my nearly 50 years I have yet to meet a woman that would say that. And even IF one did say it, knowing women like I do, I wouldn't believe it. I would be watching my ass, waiting for the private dick she had trailing me, to get the goods so she can nail my ass to the divorce cross.

Just saying.

Such women do exist, and men - women don't typically marry for sex anyway, meaning the discretion part is all the more critical if yo wish to avoid drama, don't fuck it up by acting the fool and causing a scene - look at Tiger Woods - chances are good Nordegren knew what he was up to, but would you stand up for him on national television after that particular pile of shit hit the fan?

Most women would burn him for the kid's sake alone, consent or no consent, and you couldn't blame her if she did, you'd have to take the dive.

I'm still trying to figure out where the spanking comes in.

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Morals and values - 1/28/2012 12:28:01 AM   
Whenready


Posts: 319
Joined: 3/5/2009
Status: offline 		Thanks for your comments xssve. I posted originally prompted by a different thread. I guess I was trying to ask - what is honest/moral - and gave 3 examples: my marriage/cheating 2) spanking - illegal in some places but we do it anyway and 3) is being discreet about bdsm hiding it - and if it is - does that imply "wrong". I've taken a certain amount of expected flak but then I chose the examples. I was not particularly asking is example x right or wrong - but - overall - where does the line lie. Thank you again for the comments.

(in reply to xssve)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Morals and values - 1/28/2012 7:02:05 AM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline 		Well you're trying to take to an abstract level of Third party value assignments, when it's really an interpersonal thing between you and your SO - that's the person you need to reconcile it with, buy 'em some flowers or something, make a gesture, and don't make it an empty one, try to reconnect - one thing I do know is that most people resent being taken for granted.

(in reply to Whenready)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Morals and values - 1/28/2012 7:24:54 AM   
areallivehuman


Posts: 277
Joined: 1/16/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

Found on Craigslist:

quote:


$10,000
06' Suzuki GSXR 1000
Farmington, UT 84025 - Aug 7, 2006

2006 Suzuki 1000. This bike is perfect! It has 1000 miles and has had its 500 mile dealer service. (Expensive) It's been adult ridden, all wheels have always been on the ground. I use it as a cruiser/commuter. I'm selling it because it was purchased without proper consent of a loving wife. Apparently "Do whatever the hell you want" doesn't mean what I thought. Call me, Steve... (801)xxx-xxxx






OMFG, that is a travesty.  I am embarrassed  for the manhood of Americs. I could see giving up extra-marital sex because it made the wife unhappy, but give up a MOTORCYCLE?!!!!

  Simply outrageous.

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Morals and values - 1/28/2012 10:16:53 AM   
whatisthewhat


Posts: 43
Joined: 4/12/2011
Status: offline
quote:

1) I'm married and seeking. Some people find that unacceptable. I'm comfortable with that, and with their holding the view that what I do is dishonest. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

2) Changing tack, spanking is - in some states and some countries, viewed as assault.

3) I have the impression that most people here are - at the very least - discreet - about their bdsm activities in their vanilla activities. I certainly am.


If you are married and seeking and are up front about that with your spouse and prospective partner, that is fine. To not be up front is to invite heartache and deception into your life and into the lives of others. That is irresponsible.

Consensual spanking never should be an issue.

I am discreet about BDSM activities. I was also discreet about vanilla activities. Common courtesy demands a certain level of discretion in sexual relationships. It has nothing to do with whether I view the relationship as BDSM or vanilla.

(in reply to Whenready)
Profile   Post #: 100
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