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RE: Morals and values - 1/23/2012 12:19:08 PM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whenready

So - I'm not having a go at anyone here - I'm asking out of curiousity - where is "honest" for you?

It depends. I have double/triple and even quad standards. If I don't know you, most likely I am not going to care if you are pathological liar, brutely honest or somewhere in between. If you are a politician I will almost always automatically assume you are lying and data mine to the truth if I can. If you are a family member or friend then I am invested in you and if we are very close then you can sting me and hurt me or bring me joy or uplift me depending on what you say. I firmly believe in the 'nunya' rule of conduct and would rather hear, "It's none of your business," than have someone lie to me about a particular issue. I'm mostly honest most of the time. If someone pushes my 'nunya' the most likely scenario will be that I answer their questions directly if I feel they have the need to know. Case by case as it were.

quote:

If bdsm is fine, why do we appear to need to hide it?

Well, if BDSM 'was' actually fine there would be no reason to hide it. Mostly it's only 'fine' with those who practice it or who really practice what they preach when they say 'live and let live.'

quote:

And if we need to hide it, does that not imply a moral conundrum?

Not everyone hides it, not everyone 'needs' to hide it so the premise is flawed, hence, no moral conundrum.

quote:

Are all or any of the above examples "right" or "wrong" and where is the line for you? Thoughts?

Taking your first example.

"I am married and seeking."

It's a simple statement of fact. As I am unaware of the circumstances of whomever will say that, I can't say it's right or wrong. Motive, also being an unknown variable, has to be taken into consideration and with that statement as it stands, such cannot be determined.

So, in the case of the first example 'right or wrong' is going to depend on circumstances.

In example two - spanking being illegal in some places.

Yes, spanking is wrong and anyone who participates in it should immediately bend over and take their just punishment.

The third example is the same as the first example.

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to Whenready)

Post #: 61

RE: Morals and values - 1/23/2012 2:25:40 PM

Whenready

Posts: 319
Joined: 3/5/2009
Status: offline

Yes, spanking is wrong and anyone who participates in it should immediately bend over and take their just punishment.

I LIKE it

(in reply to BitaTruble)

Post #: 62

RE: Morals and values - 1/23/2012 2:33:48 PM

Whenready

Posts: 319
Joined: 3/5/2009
Status: offline

Thanks nine, ladypact & lily too....

I guess what I pick up from all your responses is that there are no absolutes - though every individual will have their own absolutes. Thanks again all.

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)

Post #: 63

RE: Morals and values - 1/23/2012 3:03:10 PM

straponprincess1

Posts: 48
Joined: 11/19/2010
From: Tampa
Status: offline

I am comfortable with what your comfortable with. I think people sometimes should mind their own business instead of judging what is right for any one person.

_____________________________

StrapOnPrincess
Strap On Sessions

(in reply to Whenready)

Post #: 64

RE: Morals and values - 1/23/2012 7:12:14 PM

stellauk

Posts: 1360
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whenready

So - I'm not having a go at anyone here - I'm asking out of curiousity - where is "honest" for you? If bdsm is fine, why do we appear to need to hide it? And if we need to hide it, does that not imply a moral conundrum? Are all or any of the above examples "right" or "wrong" and where is the line for you? Thoughts?

OP I got married in 1996 to a woman in Warsaw who knew from the start that I had gender issues. I went for professional examination and to see doctors in 1998 where it transpired that I needed to undergo gender reassignment and transition to be myself. Whilst living in Ponzan, Poland, we separated in 1998 living in separate rooms but I remained the sole provider of my wife until late 1999 when she completed repayments on a mortgage for an apartment, and she moved out before Xmas that year. When she moved out taking everything we had together, everything. I started proceedings for a divorce.

We were divorced 14th February 2000.

You're missing the whole point of extra-marital relationships. It's not about honesty at all, it's about personal responsibility and your responsibilities to other people.

I do not compartmentalize my life. I am like a box of candies. You might only like pralines, or toffees, or fruit jellies.
It doesn't matter, because to get those pralines and fruit jellies you have to buy the whole box.

I am a 'whole package' sort of person. I am responsible, and I responsible for every relationship I create with someone else, I share the responsibility of maintaining that relationship.

I am responsible for ensuring I form friendships and relationships compatible with who I am as a person.

Whenever it comes to people who seek extra-marital relationships I always ask myself - is that person being responsible?

You see you get a lot of partnered/tied people who talk about 'circumstances'. Then when you start asking about responsibility almost invariably the person you are talking to will shift the entire responsibility for the situation onto the other person.

That's when I start to lose interest and walk away.

But then again I wasted 30 years of my life pretending to be a man for the sake of social acceptance and through all of that time I was deceiving people and misrepresenting myself. I also realized as a result that whatever relationship I was forming I was deceiving and lying to my partner and pretending to be someone I'm not in reality.

Do you know how much heartache, pain and suffering that has caused people? Can you imagine it?

That who you see to the left is the real me, that what I post here is the real me. No more secrets, no more lies, no more hiding from the truth and reality of who I am as a person.

I am responsible.

_____________________________

Usually when you have all the answers for something nobody is interested in listening.

(in reply to Whenready)

Post #: 65

RE: Morals and values - 1/23/2012 7:49:02 PM

MistressDarkArt

Posts: 5178
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stellauk

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whenready

So - I'm not having a go at anyone here - I'm asking out of curiousity - where is "honest" for you? If bdsm is fine, why do we appear to need to hide it? And if we need to hide it, does that not imply a moral conundrum? Are all or any of the above examples "right" or "wrong" and where is the line for you? Thoughts?

You're missing the whole point of extra-marital relationships. It's not about honesty at all, it's about personal responsibility and your responsibilities to other people.
<snip>

I am a 'whole package' sort of person. I am responsible, and I responsible for every relationship I create with someone else, I share the responsibility of maintaining that relationship.

I am responsible for ensuring I form friendships and relationships compatible with who I am as a person.

Whenever it comes to people who seek extra-marital relationships I always ask myself - is that person being responsible?

You see you get a lot of partnered/tied people who talk about 'circumstances'. Then when you start asking about responsibility almost invariably the person you are talking to will shift the entire responsibility for the situation onto the other person.

That's when I start to lose interest and walk away.

<Loves stella>

OP, that's about it in a nutshell. I've heard every 'circumstance' under the sun. None were unique. None were compelling. None worthy of justification...to me. Every single one put the onus on the lacking wife. "She's not interested in sex." "She'd leave me if she found out I was kinky." "We only stay married because of the insurance, but she has her own life and bedroom." And of course, we never hear her side.

Know what else I never heard?

"I've reached a different place in my life than when I got married, and I'm really frustrated and unfulfilled. I don't want to give up what I've built with my wife to let these long-buried (or recently emerged) needs express themselves. I don't want to take the risk of having a heart-to-heart talk with her about where I'm at now. I'm afraid to ask her if she would still have a place for me if I openly embrace these elements that have evolved."

I might feel more empathetic toward a married/partnered person who expressed himself that way. That said, still wouldn't get involved...I bring a clean slate to my relationships and I expect the same.

ETA italics because I think they fit well there.

< Message edited by MistressDarkArt -- 1/23/2012 7:55:16 PM >

(in reply to stellauk)

Post #: 66

RE: Morals and values - 1/23/2012 7:50:21 PM

NiceButMeanGirl

Posts: 2756
Joined: 11/4/2011
From: Bellingham, WA U.S.A.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whenready
1) I'm married and seeking. Some people find that unacceptable. I'm comfortable with that, and with their holding the view that what I do is dishonest. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
For me, if you're married and she knows and approves that's one thing. If she doesn't know, yeah, I have a problem with it. What anyone else does is his or her own business.

2) Changing tack, spanking is - in some states and some countries, viewed as assault.
So? I don't give a rat's ass if the law disapproves of something I do with another consenting adult in the the privacy of my own bedroom or a play party of consenting and like-minded individuals.

3) I have the impression that most people here are - at the very least - discreet - about their bdsm activities in their vanilla activities. I certainly am.
Most of my friends, vanillas included, know that I'm kinky. I'm retired now, so I don't need to worry about an employer finding out. My sister knows and the rest of my family does not. If they did happen to find out, it'd be like a "what the hell" moment and I'd explain. If they never disowned me for being bisexual, pagan, or any of the other off-the-wall(according to them) things I've done, I'm pretty sure they'd be safe with this. At the same time, I'm most certainly NOT going to make a point of telling them anything about my personal/intimate/sex life.

So - I'm not having a go at anyone here - I'm asking out of curiousity - where is "honest" for you? If bdsm is fine, why do we appear to need to hide it? And if we need to hide it, does that not imply a moral conundrum? Are all or any of the above examples "right" or "wrong" and where is the line for you? Thoughts?
I don't "hide it" as such, but I don't go around purposely telling everyone either because I don't want to stir up shit needlessly. It's not that it's wrong," it's just that some people wouldn't understand & since they don't need to know, I don't tell. If they do happen to find out, I deal with it like an adult. I don't think it causes a moral issue with me to not tell everyone my private business, because it's MY business, not theirs. They don't tell me everything either.

NBMG

_____________________________

I'm now SweetlySadistic1 on CollarSpace. NBMG is an old profile, please see my new one.

(in reply to Whenready)

Post #: 67

RE: Morals and values - 1/23/2012 7:59:57 PM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stellauk

I do not compartmentalize my life. I am like a box of candies. You might only like pralines, or toffees, or fruit jellies.
It doesn't matter, because to get those pralines and fruit jellies you have to buy the whole box.

Stella, your whole post was fantastic, but I especially liked this part above.....

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to stellauk)

Post #: 68

RE: Morals and values - 1/23/2012 9:07:23 PM

BootyBoy

Posts: 108
Joined: 7/29/2008
Status: offline

Wow, somwellmsaid, Stellauk!!! Bravo!

To the OP

I understand that you feel this is a wrong that you can live with, and I do consider that admission to be more honest than one in which you pretend that you are not being deceptive and doing harm. But I only ask you to consider if you may not be able to go further. Ask FORBA divorce, if you feel like you can't be honest to her. It's hard, but it's better than lying.

Remember what I was saying about the collapse od laws if people didn't have a code of keeping contracts and promises? Well just imagine another scenario in which everybody decided their own traffic laws. When the light turned red some people would say, "Well, red may mean stop FOR YOU, but for ME it means GO!" Or perhaps they would decide that the speed limit FOR THEM was 160 mph in your neighborhood school zone, or that stop signs were a bore, and crosswalks were meaningless. Imagine the results of such a world of subjective freedom.

But in reality, all that such "freedom" would do is make the streets so unsafe to travel that you'd have to stay home all day. Instead of a world where you can drive across the country, you'd have a world where you couldn't leave your driveway. I ask you, is that freedom? The reason that civilization works is because we all agree to follow certain rules... It's not religion, it's not arbitrary, it's survival. Stop signs have to mean the same thing TO EVERYONE or else they are useless. If someone says that they know that stop signs mean to "stop" but they can live with breaking the rule, in the end, they are going to end up harming more than just themselves. And then, what happens when you are the one relying on someone else to follow a rule that you really need to be kept at that moment? Is it just as excusable to risk your life, on their interpretation and preference? You see you can't have it both ways.

Just something to think about. You can do what you want, but this idea that everybody can write their own traffic laws is less than wise, at least once you remove all of the flowery self-congratulation romance from it.

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Post #: 69

RE: Morals and values - 1/23/2012 9:09:06 PM

BootyBoy

Posts: 108
Joined: 7/29/2008
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^ Sorry, my iPad keeps screwing up my typing!

(in reply to BootyBoy)

Post #: 70

RE: Morals and values - 1/23/2012 9:17:27 PM

MistressDarkArt

Posts: 5178
Status: offline

Perfectly stated, BootyBoy. The traffic analogy really sums it up well.

And that's really the crux, isn't it? If the shoe (or cheating) was on the other foot...would the OP still be saying 'I can live with that"?

(in reply to BootyBoy)

Post #: 71

RE: Morals and values - 1/23/2012 9:26:22 PM

BootyBoy

Posts: 108
Joined: 7/29/2008
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Thank you, MistressDarkArt

and no, I don't suppose that he would.

(in reply to MistressDarkArt)

Post #: 72

RE: Morals and values - 1/24/2012 12:28:06 AM

Whenready

Posts: 319
Joined: 3/5/2009
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[You see you get a lot of partnered/tied people who talk about 'circumstances'. Then when you start asking about responsibility almost invariably the person you are talking to will shift the entire responsibility for the situation onto the other person. /i] (Stella)

OP, that's about it in a nutshell. I've heard every 'circumstance' under the sun. None were unique. None were compelling. None worthy of justification...to me. Every single one put the onus on the lacking wife. "She's not interested in sex." "She'd leave me if she found out I was kinky." "We only stay married because of the insurance, but she has her own life and bedroom." And of course, we never hear her side.

Know what else I never heard?

"I've reached a different place in my life than when I got married, and I'm really frustrated and unfulfilled. I don't want to give up what I've built with my wife to let these long-buried (or recently emerged) needs express themselves. I don't want to take the risk of having a heart-to-heart talk with her about where I'm at now. I'm afraid to ask her if she would still have a place for me if I openly embrace these elements that have evolved." Mistress DA

And that's really the crux, isn't it? If the shoe (or cheating) was on the other foot...would the OP still be saying 'I can live with that"? Mistress DA

"Circumstances". When I first posted, I didn't particularly want to detail these, but Mrs Ready & I tried D/s. She hated it - we nearly divorced over it. We chose - together - to stay together - but part of that was that kink was off the agenda. I tried abstinence - for years. That didn't work either. To avoid the lawyers, we agreed "if I do anything kinky, she does not want to know about it". It's not ideal - my ideal would be D/s with her, but that's not going to happen. For me, that discussion was explicit tacit consent - but - I'm still cheating. I had a coffee with someone recently - I did not tell my wife about it, because she has already said she doesnt want to know - but its still cheating. It's not my wife's "fault" - it's mine. And no, you never will hear her side. The boot has been on the other foot - she has had two affairs that I know of - and yes - I can - and do - live with that. Sauce for the goose and all that.

I havent got a perfect marriage (who has?). I'm not looking for sympathy, or excuses, or justification. I broke my promise to be faithful. I am in a different place from the one I was in when I got married, and am still bumbling around trying to make the best fit. The only two people who can decide what that fit is are she & I.

I asked the original question because I was interested in different views of honesty/values, and gave my 3 examples. I lie. Most people I know lie. "No, officer I NEVER break the speed limit" is a lie, but also one I don't have any qualms with. As I see it there is a sliding scale, and different shades of grey, and one person's almost white will be almost black to another. I got some very thoughtful responses - so - thank you.

(in reply to BootyBoy)

Post #: 73

RE: Morals and values - 1/24/2012 2:16:44 AM

stellauk

Posts: 1360
Status: offline

I think I understand your predicament. You see you say this..

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whenready

I havent got a perfect marriage (who has?). I'm not looking for sympathy, or excuses, or justification. I broke my promise to be faithful. I am in a different place from the one I was in when I got married, and am still bumbling around trying to make the best fit. The only two people who can decide what that fit is are she & I.

And then you write..

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whenready

I asked the original question because I was interested in different views of honesty/values, and gave my 3 examples. I lie. Most people I know lie. "No, officer I NEVER break the speed limit" is a lie, but also one I don't have any qualms with. As I see it there is a sliding scale, and different shades of grey, and one person's almost white will be almost black to another. I got some very thoughtful responses - so - thank you.

There's a French proverb 'It is easier to lie to others than to stop deceiving yourself.'

I agree we all lie, I know I do.

But it's not quite as simple and straightforward as telling a lie, is it?

I mean, there's the reason for the lie, the intention behind the lie, not to mention the information that you are withholding or concealing by telling the lie, the purpose of the lie (every lie has a payoff), and the consequences.

There's also the conscious rejection of the opportunity for emotional intimacy and the impact on that relationship, especially when sex is involved.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whenready

I havent got a perfect marriage (who has?). I'm not looking for sympathy, or excuses, or justification. I broke my promise to be faithful. I am in a different place from the one I was in when I got married, and am still bumbling around trying to make the best fit. The only two people who can decide what that fit is are she & I.

Coming back..

I have bolded the part for emphasis. To me it's not so important that you broke your promise to be faithful, or that you are agonizing over whether to cheat again on your wife and you're looking for reasons or excuses.

What is more important to me is that you lied to yourself to begin with and decided to live the lie, and now you're struggling with the consequences of those decisions.

French proverb 'It is easier to lie to others than to stop deceiving yourself.'. Bolded and repeated for emphasis.

It comes back to being responsible. You made all the decisions in your life, and acted upon those decisions.

Now you're dealing with the consequences.

This is what is known as karma.

You are 'bumbling around' still trying to 'make the best fit' when the way out and solution is staring you in the face.

The solution has always been staring you in the face. And yet you choose to ignore it.

We (people, society, however which way you see us) are not responsible for your life. Neither is your wife.

Only you are responsible for your life, and the quality of it.

I agree it's not an easy or comfortable situation to be in, living a lie is never easy or comfortable unless you have no morals or feelings for others.

But the solution to your situation is staring you in the face.

I'm not your judge, in fact it's no skin off my nose what you decide to do at the end of the day.

Here's a song for you Speak to me/Breathe - Pink Floyd

You might find the lyrics worth considering. 'All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be.'

< Message edited by stellauk -- 1/24/2012 2:27:14 AM >

_____________________________

Usually when you have all the answers for something nobody is interested in listening.

(in reply to Whenready)

Post #: 74

RE: Morals and values - 1/24/2012 4:30:35 AM

Arienos

Posts: 161
Joined: 10/5/2011
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quote:

Since 6 of my coworkers knew to various degrees, I assume all of them knew. My family knows, but not details.

There was a time in my life, while raising my children, where discretion in reference to BDSM along with other endeavors and special interests was paramount… that time has passed. Today, my business partners, friends, family, associates and newly acquired acquaintances are intentionally made aware of the course my ship of life sails on.

(in reply to kalikshama)

Post #: 75

RE: Morals and values - 1/24/2012 5:12:53 AM

BootyBoy

Posts: 108
Joined: 7/29/2008
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Again, I defer to the excellent work of Stellauk above.

But I'll just add this: Everybody changes. I doubt if any person is the exact same as they were then when they got married. but marriage is about trying to change and grow together, incrementally. the idea is to have an open line of communication and a level of respect that informs the direction of the change in your life.

Men often talk about serving a woman. But they only mean that they will use her to fulfill their own kink in their own way. What the "Mistress" wants is immaterial. They "serve" by ultimatum--Do to me what I want or I will find another woman out there who will! Is this service?

Men often talk about Dominating a woman, but they don't truly want the responsibility of protection, support, and trust building that comes part and parcel with the obligation of leading.

You didn't come to the place in your life all at once. There is no KINK gene that science has uncovered. It's a process of exposure and acceptance of certain ideas and systems of arousal. Can you honestly say that your wife has had the fair chance to understand where you want to go and why? Because, if this is just about kinky sex in an already bad relationship then you should quickly disabuse yourself of that incorrect notion. A BDSM relationship requires even MORE trust and communication than a vanilla one because of the dynamics of the power exchange. DO you understand what I'm saying? TRUST.

If neither of you trust one another, then the dynamic is impossible. Surely you don't expect her to submit herself and become totally vulnerable to a man who she does not completely trust. HAVE YOU DONE THAT WORK? Have you laid that foundation? Or have you just come home with whip and chans videos, and strange requests, and considered her rejection of your fantasies to be a rejection of the lifestyle? This can't be just about what you want or it is doomed to fail. A BDSM relationship is still A RELATIONSHIP, and you may be surprised at how open-minded your partner can be once you've actually addressed her concerns, her needs, and fears. If you want to be a Dom, then begin with the basic work of wooing a woman by giving ear to her inner voice. Answer the questions that her heart is asking.

Its not a question of just tying her up naked and beating her for your pleasure. D/s (like all relationships) begins as a mind to mind affair of the heart. Any true Master has begin by mastering his own selfishness and impatience, and by nurturing the seduction of his thoughtfulness and approbation. A submissive needs to WANT to serve you, and any gift snatched by the receiver before its time is cheapened by the act. Have you cultivated this harvest, or are you expecting apples from a tree you have not watered?

As a sub, I can sense a great impatience about you. Ask yourself this honest question. Have I been the kind of man that inspires my wife to place her vulnerably and safety in my keeping? Or have I made this mostly about my own sexual needs, and then have been surprised that she does not want to I fulfill them? Will I end up having the same relationship problems in a D/s relationship as I am currently having in my vanilla marriage, if my fundamental person does not change?

These are questions worth asking for a serious Dom. Because let's be honest. The only thing scarier than a bad husband is a bad husband with his cock and a whip in the other. Fundamentals, and no shortcuts. Domming is not for wimps.

(in reply to stellauk)

Post #: 76

RE: Morals and values - 1/24/2012 8:03:24 AM

kalikshama

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quote:

To avoid the lawyers, we agreed "if I do anything kinky, she does not want to know about it". It's not ideal - my ideal would be D/s with her, but that's not going to happen. For me, that discussion was explicit tacit consent - but - I'm still cheating. I had a coffee with someone recently - I did not tell my wife about it, because she has already said she doesnt want to know - but its still cheating. It's not my wife's "fault" - it's mine. And no, you never will hear her side. The boot has been on the other foot - she has had two affairs that I know of - and yes - I can - and do - live with that. Sauce for the goose and all that.

In general, I believe all the energy expended seeking happiness outside the marriage would be better invested in the marriage. Too often when a vanilla married man tells me "She's not interested in sex" and I reply "What do you do to get her interested - date nights, massage?" The answer is invariably "No...."

OP - your case is different because she is vehemently opposed to D/s. Is it all of BDSM she's opposed to or just being on the s side of the kneel?

(in reply to Whenready)

Post #: 77

RE: Morals and values - 1/24/2012 8:16:17 AM

kalikshama

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Joined: 8/8/2010
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quote:

But I'll just add this: Everybody changes. I doubt if any person is the exact same as they were then when they got married. but marriage is about trying to change and grow together, incrementally. the idea is to have an open line of communication and a level of respect that informs the direction of the change in your life.

In the beginning of my marriage, we were hard-partying members of the USAF. 14 years later, I'd developed a chronic illness, quit drinking, and was into yoga and organic foods and he was into Harleys and tattoos. We separated, and divorced 4 years later.

At times over the years I have missed being married and missed him - he was a really nice guy - but we'd irreconcilably grown apart and divorce was the best option for us.

(in reply to BootyBoy)

Post #: 78

RE: Morals and values - 1/24/2012 9:01:22 AM

Whenready

Posts: 319
Joined: 3/5/2009
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To Stella & booty - again - well written thoughtful posts - thank you.

To Kalik, I also agree about the benefits of investing inside the marriage. Neither of us wish to leave the other, and we do spend date time / child free time and the rest. It's any bdsm she is opposed to. My first choice is to continue my marriage. That's her choice too (of course you only have my word for that - I accept that caveat).

Given that choice, I can either abstain from D/s, or participate, discreetly. Many will see and have stated the latter choice as wrong - and I do not disagree with the why of their reasoning. I tried abstention, for years. Mea culpa that I keep coming back. My responsibility - with all and any consequences.

I have tried to talk in this thread about honesty and dishonesty - using my marriage as one example. I have also tried to avoid this thread becoming solely about my dishonesty. I've been involved in D/s long enough to know that trust is just as important in D/s as in marriage - and that one consequence of my being married is that that means that some will NOT trust me because I am looking for something outside my marriage that I cannot fulfil inside it. It may be that one day she & I go our separate ways - but - today - she & I both choose to stay.

I've also been a member here long enough to expect that my marital status would attract some negative comment - on the whole it has been well reasoned negative comment too, rather than a flame war. Comparing responses to fidelity and responses to spanking (the other example I used), I conclude that the significant difference between the two is consent - and informed consent at that. I wish everyone here well - health & happiness to each, as you find it suits you. Be well.

(in reply to kalikshama)

Post #: 79

RE: Morals and values - 1/24/2012 9:24:34 AM

xXLithiumXx

Posts: 723
Joined: 9/2/2008
From: Hell, Kentucky
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whenready

This is a spin off from another thread.

1) I'm married and seeking. Some people find that unacceptable. I'm comfortable with that, and with their holding the view that what I do is dishonest. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

2) Changing tack, spanking is - in some states and some countries, viewed as assault.

3) I have the impression that most people here are - at the very least - discreet - about their bdsm activities in their vanilla activities. I certainly am.

So - I'm not having a go at anyone here - I'm asking out of curiousity - where is "honest" for you? If bdsm is fine, why do we appear to need to hide it? And if we need to hide it, does that not imply a moral conundrum? Are all or any of the above examples "right" or "wrong" and where is the line for you? Thoughts?

1) I view issues like this in this light; If you are going to lie and cheat on someone you -vowed- to love, if you are going to lie to them, and be emotionally and physically unfaithful, what in the hell do I want with you? I can not trust you. This is not a lifestyle choice that allows a great deal of room for bullshit, some of what we do is very dangerous and could kill someone. If I can not trust you to tell me something simple, like who you are fucking, then how can I trust you to tell me if you have a heart condition, or how can I trust that you wont kill me or let me be seriously injured when I am tied up? Trust is a value and not a moral in this instance. Morally, it is not my place to judge them, and they may not be giving me all of the details because I am just a side line, and the other partner knows what is up. There are a million whys to the morality of an issue, but the value of the trust involved here is limitless and should be respected above anything else.

2) Of course it can be seen as assault. In some cases, the degree would vary. The issue is, why in the hell would you go and tell the police that you got your ass spanked? I mean, if it wasn't consensual? What in the world kind of sense does that make? And if the cops catch you getting spanked in your own home, you either a) have bigger issues to deal with because the fuckers kicked your door in for reasons totally not bondage related, or b) need to tone it down and get a ball gag because you are keeping the neighbor lady up and she called them.
I say all that because I live in a state where bondage is illegal, and when I was working a dungeon one of my best customers was a cop. Fact is, cops know this shit goes on. They know there are some kinky people in the world. It's our right, and as long as no one is getting hurt, they can't really do anything. It's basically a no victim no crime thing.
Morally, I don't think any one has a right to tell me what should or shouldn't get me off. And I would fight any charges tooth and nail. Period.

3) Some people are more discreet than others, I agree, but that is because as much as we do not want to admit it, we live in an almost Puritanical society. What we do is always being monitored, examined and judged. It is, in fact stupid that we feel the need to hide who we are in any capacity, not just those of our deviant sexual proclivities. Morally, I think that it is wrong to hide what a person is from the rest of the world. Do I think we should be able to do it in the street, no, but should we have to hide under the bed? No. My chains and cuffs and floggers are hanging on the walls of my bed room. When people ask what they are, depending on age and maturity level (and this does absolutely apply to adults as well) I explain what they are, why I have them, and in some cases, what they are used for. I see no reason to hide this part of myself. I think that it gives people an opportunity to ask questions and get honest answers.

That being said, because we live in the world that we do, people have to think about how other's judgments affect their children and loved ones. At least people who are serious and who are not doing this as some kind of game, or attention fix do. We think about how people will look at our kids and know that mommy and daddy are kinky...most people will shy away from letting their kids play with kids of open BDSM'ers, because they are ignorant and think somehow my kid will tie their kid up. We also have to think about political agenda; enemies with that kind of information are powerful indeed, and while we like to think we live in a world of sexual liberation, it is actually still in the infantile stages of the dark ages. No two lifestylers behave in the same way, each dynamic and the handling of that dynamic are different. There is no right or wrong with that. There is no correct answer or moral value to be placed on it.

_____________________________

If Barbie is so popular, why do you have to buy her friends?

Ideas don't stay in some minds very long because they don't like solitary confinement

You have to believe in yourself. -Tsun Tzu-

Resident Malkavian.

(in reply to Whenready)

Post #: 80

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All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: Morals and values

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