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RE: Sadism vs Sadists - 2/6/2012 8:52:56 AM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline 		A.) He wasn't in the US military, and they were waterboarding before that memo went out, they didn't just think it up on their own, or all that stuff at Abu Ghraib either, it's all under the purview of psyops.

B.) The stuff I know isn't interrogation techniques, it's hand to hand combat techniques - physical torture, for the most part, is considered a poor and unreliable method of extracting information, but there has always been an overlap, possibly because the military tends to attract sadists and psychopaths, as a historical thing, as does any profession that put people in a position that provides camouflage, or makes it seem necessary.

Like Abu Ghraib or waterboarding, in spite of interrogation experts all agreeing that those things were not strictly necessary or productive, and probably more likely to backfire, which is what happened.

Whether they use them or not doesn't mean they don't learn those techniques, or that they are not applied whether it's a tactical decision or a strategic one.


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RE: Sadism vs Sadists - 2/6/2012 8:54:52 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
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From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		I love you, LadyP....

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RE: Sadism vs Sadists - 2/6/2012 8:56:00 AM   
Losalt


Posts: 3
Joined: 11/20/2010
Status: offline 		Let's see...
Words having different meanings in different contexts is obvious I think to most.
I've been studying cultural heritage management, a subject that's sort of a mix of everything from law, to geography (city planing), to history, to archaeology and so one and so one. (I think I can say that without any ToS problems)
The different subjects sometimes have terms also used by the other subjects but with a different meaning for them.
This is something we need to be aware of.
This is a phenomenon that occur in all situations where people are fragmented in some way, when they have different subcultures.
In the BDSM community you also find this, there's different communities in different places with different subcultures and since a lot of people are also still in the closet who also might use the words slightly differently and because other non-BDSM subcultures also use the terms we use in different ways it all get's rather confusing sometimes and people might mean really different things when using words.
When I use the word sadism I'm not talking about a set of actions but use it as a blanket description for a whole host of people that for one reason or another sexually enjoy causing or seeing another person in pain in such a way that they may for instance get hard or wet depending on the gender.
This don't mean that the action have to be in a sexual context, it don't mean that the person have to ever act out on these impulses any more then anyone need to act out on the desire to for instance be unfaithful to a gf/bf anytime they choose.
Acting on this is something you choose.

And sadism have nothing to do with being "evil".
Some people can't enjoy causing pain if the person they cause pain to enjoys it, then you might be forced to for instance get an agreement that sometimes you cause pain past a limit that they enjoy with their consent for instance.
Or you might find someone that don't enjoy the suffering in it self but might enjoy the act of surrendering to the suffering, to suffer for someone even if the suffering it self isn't enjoyable.

A few might not even enjoy the pain unless it's also non-consensual, in those cases I hope it works out with consensual nonconsent or the person in question ends up in a dilemma between acting out on their urges (wrong ethically on so meany levels) or to try to bottle it up (can be tough)

Myself however I'm among the fortunate people that do enjoy someones pain also when it's not only consensual but enjoyed by the person in question as well, and I'm grateful for that.
It's tough enough being a sadist in the first place...

Ps. This post wasn't in response to the post it seems to had ended up in response too... That was just an accident because of my inexperience on this board.

< Message edited by Losalt -- 2/6/2012 9:01:38 AM >

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RE: Sadism vs Sadists - 2/6/2012 9:01:56 AM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		Master is a sadist. He absolutely loves hearing my screams, watching me struggle from the pain. I'm not a masochist which makes it even hotter to him. He gets off on it. He likes watching porn where women do the same thing. He doesn't get off on just torturing me. I'm sure if another came along that he found attractive and wanted to hurt he'd probably have no problems with it.

He doesn't really like to see it in anyone else though outside of bdsm.

Why he likes it? I can't really answer that since I'm not sure. I've never asked him since it's never been important to me.


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RE: Sadism vs Sadists - 2/6/2012 9:05:17 AM   
Kana


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Status: offline 		I heard a rumor he likes doing nasty things to sweet young things cause screaming sluts give him totem pole size wood-just word on the street and all...

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RE: Sadism vs Sadists - 2/6/2012 9:11:16 AM   
GreedyTop


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From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		Kana? Have I mentioned that you scare me? *grins*

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RE: Sadism vs Sadists - 2/6/2012 9:15:12 AM   
xssve


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Joined: 10/10/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum

Whatever dude. I wonder what MOS <Military Occupational Skill> that is???? Prior to Don Rusmfeld saying it was ok to torture ppl <whatever that means>, the military adhered to the Geneva convention. Furthermore a soldier was instructed that they could disobey a "unlawful order" ie something that went against your moral values. Not forgetting the fact that by your statement acknowledging "secret training" could put you in jail <or death> for a very long time for treason.

You may have seen or been involved in torture while you are in the service but to make the statement that the military trained you is utter BS.

BadOne
There are wheels within wheels here, it's the nature of psyops, and this is all speculation on my part, I have no explicit knowledge of it, but it can be an entirely strategic decision made for all the wrong reasons: back at the height of that, all the conservatives (civilians) were all nodding sagely, content in the knowledge that the administration was "doing what needed to be done", and railing agianst all the candy ass liberals who found it appalling and highly objectionable - i.e., there could have been an entirely political goal in mind, that had nothing to do with extracting information, and it's relatively easy to find somebody who lacks the moral foundation to refuse an unlawful order, and set them up to take the fall for that.

Deliberately leak that, then you can bitch and whine about how your hands are tied, blah, blah, it's all CYA when it comes to politics.

And that's what psyops is all about, fucking with peoples heads like that, and they do that to civilians too, foreign and domestic, it's all on record in declassified material. It's not treason to speculate whether or not they're doing things for which there are already precedents, it's a patriotic duty to stay informed so that you can make informed choices instead of being played like a puppet on a string.

Anyway, there's really no point in discussing it further: playing the skeptic is an effective interrogation technique - "prove it", right?

Lol.


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RE: Sadism vs Sadists - 2/6/2012 9:23:05 AM   
LillyBoPeep


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Status: offline 		I'm pretty sure MrBukani isn't from the US.

*checks profile to make sure*

Yeah, he's from the Netherlands. So any whinging about Rumsfeld is irrelevant.

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RE: Sadism vs Sadists - 2/6/2012 9:24:45 AM   
MistrixMsE


Posts: 198
Joined: 1/3/2010
From: Chicago, USA - Touring Internationally
Status: offline 		Fast reply:
I am a sadist. I am not sadistic in business... (own 5)... but i am a ballbusting bitch in biz & enjoy annihilating the competition. I think in business I do get off on power & ego fulfilling trips... such as when i knock a competitors dick in the dirt, scoop an invvestor from under their noses, and even slight humiliation of my opponent during testy negotiations.. but then again I am a woman in a male dominated field.. aggression is rewarded... and yes, I ratchet it up when dealing with a guy on the other side of the table. Its not sadistic though... I am not looking to inflict physical pain.. and that is the heart of sadism.

I am a sadist in my personal play, and also with some of my pro-domme clients. I do go to different extremes depending on who I am playing with. My current partner does not have heavily masochistic tendencies. I can still enjoy our sex & scenes... but there are some sadistic urges it doesnt satisfy. I am lucky to have heavy masochists to play with to allow me to vent those needs. I like bringing someone else to the edge of consciousness through the use of pain. I like it when they bleed. Cry out. Whimper. Moan. Beg me to stop. I get off psychologically........ in these cases while i may get a twinge of sexual arousal, its really more about my headspace.. though the aggro rush will often last for hours.. giving me time to pounce my boy at a later time.. That someone will suffer for me... wear my scars.. is a huge mental rush. I enjoy blood play, knife play, whips, needles, electrics, extreme medical play.. sewing eyes & lips shut... are you getting the idea? There is a huge adrenaline and endorphin rush from it. Kind of like i used to get base jumping. Its experiential.

I dont walk around being sadistic... that is not healthy or safe... I might be incarcerated. I am a sadist but I have self control and only vent those urges with willing partners be they sexual partners, friends i play casually with, or pro-scene clients. If i didnt have self control, I'd be in the same league as ted bundy et al. Thats a big distinction.


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RE: Sadism vs Sadists - 2/6/2012 9:25:27 AM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

I can be the most sadistical bastard you will ever meet.
Dont ask me to prove it I won't.
But I am not a sadist.
I was military trained in torture techniques and sworn to secrecy.
You just either believe it or not.
I can enjoy punishing and diciplining someone to a certain extent. But the bottomline in punishment is altering behaviour. Not deriving pleasure merely from hurting another person.

What I do not understand completely is why so many dominants are selfproclaimed sadists.

Is it from past trauma?
Is it a nurtured powertrip?
I dont know.
I am wondering and very interested to hear it from a sadist's point of view.



Whatever dude. I wonder what MOS <Military Occupational Skill> that is???? Prior to Don Rusmfeld saying it was ok to torture ppl <whatever that means>, the military adhered to the Geneva convention. Furthermore a soldier was instructed that they could disobey a "unlawful order" ie something that went against your moral values. Not forgetting the fact that by your statement acknowledging "secret training" could put you in jail <or death> for a very long time for treason.

You may have seen or been involved in torture while you are in the service but to make the statement that the military trained you is utter BS.

BadOne

Simply said without divulging anything breakin the code.
One of my sergeants was a real sadist. It was very clear he taught us techniques to torture. He never used the word of course. But it was definitely an integral part of his training method.
Hell I drove that mofo mad to the point he really wanted to kill me.
Great fun.(Edit I was young and reckless. One of the last to be in the dutch draft. I went in so my brother didnt have to. It was fun but after training for 3 months my job was done. Didnt feel like shovelin shit for another 9 months. So I raised hell in the company untill they kicked me out. I remember standing before my captain and he told me. "In wartime we need you, But get the hell out of my company right now." Mission accomplished hahaha.)
Still however much I do not agree with my sergeant, he did teach me a lot.

Edit2
Not to forget I thank the sadists replying here. It gives me a little insight.
Not that I will ever say thats cool or that I think it's a good thing.
But I do understand the rush you are getting from it better now.

< Message edited by MrBukani -- 2/6/2012 9:49:39 AM >

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RE: Sadism vs Sadists - 2/6/2012 9:26:10 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		I still say you'd be fun to have drinks with, MsE ;)

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Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

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RE: Sadism vs Sadists - 2/6/2012 9:47:02 AM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline 		He's got ways of making you talk... 

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RE: Sadism vs Sadists - 2/6/2012 9:48:02 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

I love you, LadyP....

You say that to all of the sadists. 

(Just kidding.)


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RE: Sadism vs Sadists - 2/6/2012 9:49:29 AM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani


quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

I can be the most sadistical bastard you will ever meet.
Dont ask me to prove it I won't.
But I am not a sadist.
I was military trained in torture techniques and sworn to secrecy.
You just either believe it or not.
I can enjoy punishing and diciplining someone to a certain extent. But the bottomline in punishment is altering behaviour. Not deriving pleasure merely from hurting another person.

What I do not understand completely is why so many dominants are selfproclaimed sadists.

Is it from past trauma?
Is it a nurtured powertrip?
I dont know.
I am wondering and very interested to hear it from a sadist's point of view.



Whatever dude. I wonder what MOS <Military Occupational Skill> that is???? Prior to Don Rusmfeld saying it was ok to torture ppl <whatever that means>, the military adhered to the Geneva convention. Furthermore a soldier was instructed that they could disobey a "unlawful order" ie something that went against your moral values. Not forgetting the fact that by your statement acknowledging "secret training" could put you in jail <or death> for a very long time for treason.

You may have seen or been involved in torture while you are in the service but to make the statement that the military trained you is utter BS.

BadOne

Simply said without divulging anything breakin the code.
One of my sergeants was a real sadist. It was very clear he taught us techniques to torture. He never used the word of course. But it was definitely an integral part of his training method.
Hell I drove that mofo mad to the point he really wanted to kill me.
Great fun.
Still however much I do not agree with this person, he did teach me a lot.


I can't tell if your referring to the US Services or not. But I did notice how his story changed from the Military training him to "Some Guy". His story is just not credible.

xssve I do have explicit knowledge and for the most part the torturing was done by the CIA and contractors of the CIA. Not the US Military. There is actually a book about it written by a FBI agent that was there.

BadOne


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RE: Sadism vs Sadists - 2/6/2012 9:49:58 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

I love you, LadyP....

You say that to all of the sadists. 

(Just kidding.)



Only teh sadists that I want to play with ;)


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polysnortatious
Supreme Goddess of Snark
CHARTER MEMBER: Lance's Fag Hags!
Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

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Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Sadism vs Sadists - 2/6/2012 9:51:10 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		BAdOne.. the OP is not from the U.S.

He's from the Netherlands.

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Waiting for my madman in a Blue Box.

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Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Sadism vs Sadists - 2/6/2012 9:57:04 AM   
MrBukani


Posts: 1920
Joined: 4/18/2010
Status: offline 		I'm dutch as you can read in the edit.

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RE: Sadism vs Sadists - 2/6/2012 10:01:43 AM   
Buzzzz


Posts: 839
Joined: 11/28/2010
Status: offline 		It is something I discovered I like to do when I found this lifestyle. It turns me on, gets me hard, turns on a "switch " inside of me. Not everything has to be analysed.Take our 4 legged friends for example. Hound dogs like to sniff and find things, australian shepperds like to herd and play fetch with a ball , poodles like this, etc. That is the way they are. Nothing anybodu can do about it . It is who they are.

Same with us : some of us are more this, more that , less this , less that , etc, etc.... And same with sadists. I am a sadist, but I need a pain slut to be on the other side of the whip. Otherwise, it just gets really boring :)

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RE: Sadism vs Sadists - 2/6/2012 10:02:20 AM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline
quote:

xssve I do have explicit knowledge and for the most part the torturing was done by the CIA and contractors of the CIA. Not the US Military. There is actually a book about it written by a FBI agent that was there.
That's not who's sitting in NAS Leavenworth though is it?

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RE: Sadism vs Sadists - 2/6/2012 11:47:32 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SailingBum


Whatever dude. I wonder what MOS <Military Occupational Skill> that is???? Prior to Don Rusmfeld saying it was ok to torture ppl <whatever that means>, the military adhered to the Geneva convention. Furthermore a soldier was instructed that they could disobey a "unlawful order" ie something that went against your moral values.


Nope. At the risk of coming over all "Politics and religion" an unlawful order is an order that is unlawful, not one that goes against the soldier's moral values. Don Rumsfeld did not say that it was ok to torture people, he said that certain practices were not torture, therefore not in breach of the Geneva convention, and not illegal.

I'm not saying for a second that Rumsfeld was right but...

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