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RE: Sadism vs Sadists - 2/6/2012 3:11:02 PM   
ResidentSadist


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quote:

Is it a nurtured powertrip?

^ This



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RE: Sadism vs Sadists - 2/6/2012 3:25:26 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

In reading through this thread I am seeing a lot of confusion and mixing of sadist and sociopath. Especially by the OP.


In conversations like this I see that mixture happen often, and have stopped trying to point out the differences, as it often just goes off topic.
quote:


I've read that a large number of sociopaths are not violent criminals but instead, very successful business people. Because they have no remorse or empathy for the victims, they only see the goal as important. Who cares if people get hurt in gaining that goal?


You would be correct, there was actually an article written within the last few years, or less about socipaths as corporate executives and politicians.

quote:


A sadist can be very empathetic and still be a sadist. In fact, I would think that it is a bonus. If you cannot be empathetic to the pain you are causing, what fun is it?


Very correct, as it is a sense of pleasure to feel what you are giving to someone.

quote:


I have accepted the fact that I am one nasty sadistic bitch. Because I am also empathetic, accepting that I am a sadist was not exactly an easy pill to swallow. In fact, being accused of such by a killer, several decades ago, pissed me off no end.


I believe it is the societal norms that put this in us, and reconciling it often allows us to actually understand it in ourselves better.

quote:


Another thing that I see the OP not necessarily 'getting' is that not all sadists are going to be the same. Some are sexual sadists. Some are physical and others are more psychological. Some prefer to keep it within a personal relationship and others very impersonal. And some of us, are a combination.


Absolutely! I am a mixture, and in fact I derive more pleasure from being a psychological sadist to those I feel deserve the suffering. The physical aspect is something I use as a release. The physical aspect for me is also felt in different ways. When it is a physical confrontation, I enjoy inflicting pain on my opponent, but in an inter-personal relationship it is the physical dominance aspect that is triggered more.
quote:


There are some people I have a burning urge to hurt badly. Usually a person that has proven themselves to be 'deserving' of that hurt, in some twisted fucked up way in my mind. That facet of myself is where I am VERY glad I do have empathy and morals.I am glad that there are laws and consequences that I am not willing to suffer. All of that helps me, keep me in check.


Again, as times in the past you echo my own feelings. I do believe a key aspect is that the moral code we have allows us to enjoy that part of ourselves, but reserve the varying degrees for who we feel deserves those different aspects.

quote:


No aspect of my sadistic nature MUST be fed. I would be able to continue to live a very satisfying and complete life if I never had the ability to let myself play with it.


I believe this is another key difference in the various degrees of sadism. I also do not feel a need that must be fed. Maybe this is the difference between the sexual and pathological aspects of it.

quote:


Edited to add......I've never had an urge to hurt an innocent. I actually am the opposite. I prefer to unleash my sadism on the bully that would.Or the masochist that thinks it's 'hot'.


Again you echo my feelings. I think I said it a couple of years ago on a different topic, but maybe we were twins separated at birth. I so enjoy letting my sadistic side out, unfettered, against those that bully others or take advantage of the weak around me.

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RE: Sadism vs Sadists - 2/6/2012 3:34:31 PM   
MariaB


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

I would really like to hear from a fullblown sadist POV. We all know the stories of kids enjoying the torture of ants or spiders or what not. How does it feel?


This is as far as I got in this thread before having to quote you and hit reply.
That question shows that you have clearly no idea about BDSM consensual sadism and instead liken it to the dictionary definition of 'sexual sadism/sociopath/psychopath' personality types. I don't know whats come after this particular question. Perhaps you have been enlightened, perhaps not.

Although I may enjoy inflicting sensual pain on someone who loves sensual pain, I couldn't work in an abattoir, I couldn't hurt anyone against their will, I couldn't hurt an animal or even deliberately kill an insect and I couldn't be trained to torture people and go home with an easy conscience because after all, it was just a job and someone else told me it was ok to do that.

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RE: Sadism vs Sadists - 2/6/2012 4:01:29 PM   
Losalt


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

I would really like to hear from a fullblown sadist POV. We all know the stories of kids enjoying the torture of ants or spiders or what not. How does it feel?


This is as far as I got in this thread before having to quote you and hit reply.
That question shows that you have clearly no idea about BDSM consensual sadism and instead liken it to the dictionary definition of 'sexual sadism/sociopath/psychopath' personality types. I don't know whats come after this particular question. Perhaps you have been enlightened, perhaps not.

Although I may enjoy inflicting sensual pain on someone who loves sensual pain, I couldn't work in an abattoir, I couldn't hurt anyone against their will, I couldn't hurt an animal or even deliberately kill an insect and I couldn't be trained to torture people and go home with an easy conscience because after all, it was just a job and someone else told me it was ok to do that.



This is pretty much my sentiment as well.
I'm even a vegetarian...
Did have one scary episode once though...
A situation where I accidentally ended up with a pile of books landing on someones fingers and for a split second I enjoyed it before I caught myself and removed the books again.
Nobody noticed it but me I think...
But any any situation where my rational mind is in control I have strong moral values involving consent and will never, ever hurt anyone without their consent, nor kill them (in the case of animals)
But as that episode showed me, I do have a little bit of a conflict inside of me on these things and if I end up surprised I might need a moment to allow my rational mind to take control again...
I hope nothing like this will ever happen again :-/

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RE: Sadism vs Sadists - 2/6/2012 5:19:40 PM   
MistrixMsE


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

I still say you'd be fun to have drinks with, MsE ;)


I am, even when I only allow my drinking buddy to ingest their drinks via waterboarding ;)


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RE: Sadism vs Sadists - 2/6/2012 8:23:45 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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Status: offline 		Could you define what you mean by a full blown sadist, and then there may be some better context to your question. Most people I classify as a full blown sadist are either unable to reply as they are guests of a gvernment institution of some type, or will never admit it anywhere.

I mean are we talking pathological here, or sexual behavior of some type? There is a difference, thought the psychological community is slow to admit and accept it.


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani
I would really like to hear from a fullblown sadist POV.



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RE: Sadism vs Sadists - 2/6/2012 8:52:56 PM   
GreedyTop


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistrixMsE

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

I still say you'd be fun to have drinks with, MsE ;)


I am, even when I only allow my drinking buddy to ingest their drinks via waterboarding ;)





eep!

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RE: Sadism vs Sadists - 2/6/2012 9:48:29 PM   
kitkat105


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From: Eating dutch crunch in the Silicon Valley
Status: offline 		Well, I'm a masochist, so at a guess it would be the opposite but the same. I think it comes down to they derive sexual pleasure from the power they have over the masochist, and from inflicting the pain (and watching them squirm/squeal/scream/etc).

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RE: Sadism vs Sadists - 2/8/2012 6:55:20 AM   
MrBukani


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Status: offline 		"A masochist walked up to a sadist, and said 'Hurt me'. The sadist said 'No' and walked away."

Love this joke and it kinda relates to everything said about what is real and what not.
What I mean with a fullblown sadist is the one who enjoys inflicting pain on somebody who does not like it.
Might be consensual, but there is where the empathy thing kicks in. What kind of empathy are we talkin about when the reciever doesn't like it?
Like we all know BDSM is way more then just sex. It can involve an enormous range of specific skills.
Now you might tell me you don't use those skills in the real world, but I doubt that.
You are not going to walk the street leathered up with a whip in your hand, whippin the shit outta innocent bystanders.
The psychological tools of torture you have learned within this BDSM realm you do take outside.
Humiliation and degradation etc. can become tools to gain an objective.
And when you need those tools they will be used.
Business is just an example of how this works in a secondary mode.
You can say profit is the objective, but the collateral damage is part of the equation. You even might feel empathy and sorrow for the competition you killed. But you're thrilled about the financial gain.
Where does it end or begin.
I think you are responsible for all consequences and soforth can consider it sadistic, although it's not the primary motive.

< Message edited by MrBukani -- 2/8/2012 6:59:03 AM >

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RE: Sadism vs Sadists - 2/8/2012 7:01:22 AM   
LillyBoPeep


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Status: offline 		Empathy is important but it doesn't necessarily control what you do. A doctor isn't a sadist who gets off on causing people pain, but they sometimes do as part of their work. And they can probably empathize with the feeling, but empathy alone doesn't stop them.

Empathy doesn't stop bullies from picking on weaker kids, even if the bully is being bullied himself, right?

Empathy doesn't control, it informs.

Also, a sadistic person in a D/s relationship may ALSO empathize with the /s-person's need to feel that kind of control. The "you'll do this to me, knowing how much I dislike it, just because it's what you want" kind of control. That's important for some people.

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RE: Sadism vs Sadists - 3/3/2012 9:50:25 AM   
JollySadist


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Status: offline 		"Might be consensual, but there is where the empathy thing kicks in. What kind of empathy are we talkin about when the reciever doesn't like it?" You're empathizing with the pain, not always the person. If you're masochistic as well, gravy.

"Like we all know BDSM is way more then just sex. It can involve an enormous range of specific skills. " Or, it can just be sex. If you get off on beating someone, do you really NEED a power dynamic?

No, you don't need consent to empathize with someone's pain. You don't need to have power over them; there are masochistic tops all over the place, and quite a few of them have really nice energy. A lot of the times people confuse being an emotional sadist, dominant, or asshole with physical sadism.

On the other side of things, people who don't enjoy an activity don't really ADD anything extra to the equation when it comes to physical sadism. Other than the warm fuzzy feeling that they're putting up with it out of affection.

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RE: Sadism vs Sadists - 3/3/2012 10:02:20 AM   
DesFIP


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Status: offline 		Not necessarily. In fact, it could well be postulated that many sadists are more pleased inflicting suffering on someone who takes no pleasure on it, instead of on someone who suffers less because they are capable of transforming the pain into pleasure.

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RE: Sadism vs Sadists - 3/3/2012 6:19:37 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBukani

I was military trained in torture techniques and sworn to secrecy.


May I suggest 'enhanced' interrogation is a more suitable term on a site such as this?

Interrogation should be its purpose, and the term serves to keep that in mind. Extracting information is a different thing from torture, even when it involves the use of torture as a means toward that ends. And both are different from what is commonly understood by the word torture in a place such as this.

quote:

What I do not understand completely is why so many dominants are selfproclaimed sadists.


I could probably have someone else proclaim it.

quote:

Is it from past trauma? Is it a nurtured powertrip? I dont know.
I am wondering and very interested to hear it from a sadist's point of view.


Seems you're assuming, as much as wondering, but here's a rehash of the archives:

I'm a sadist. Have been as long as I can remember. Clearly not related to any trauma. Never did anything to nurture it. Done a lot to be aware of it, and used to do a lot to curb it until I realized it was better to face who I am than to set out to oppress myself. That change also accomplished what curbing it did not. Can't say that sadism relates directly to power, though the two can be combined as readily as anything else.

The one thing it relates closely to, is empathy.

To take her to the point of curling up in fetal position, shivering without the energy to sob anymore is hot. And fun. Whether she wanted that or not, is irrelevant (although, of course, reasonable play requires that she accept it). To go further wouldn't be a problem, either, but would usually be irresponsible. And I do like to think I'm a responsible person.

Pain, anguish, suffering and despair are potentially sexy. Including a lot of cases that might be offensive to the non-sadist to consider someone finding sexy. For instance, a girl got hit by a car while I was looking that direction. Very hot. In hindsight, that is. Never had much time to think about it there and then, since I was busy doing the first responder thing. And doing it well. Similarly, women in natural labor? Zoom in on her face, please, and let's all hope for triplets.

Mental sadism is more complicated. Or it can be.

Leaving out consent for the moment, if one were an amoral sadist in the appropriate position, it might absolutely work to get some hot chick to lose her job, the bank to foreclose on her, and so forth, until she's been reduced to whoring by the pier. For the crowning jewel in the work, one might then seek her out and haggle over prices, leave only to get called back with a lower offer, take her up on it, and add an appropriate insult when done, or disclose one's involvement, or both. Really oblique folks might track the obits a while afterwards.

Me, I prefer clean and fair, with consent of some sort, aftercare and other sundry trimmings.

You don't have to be an asshole to be a sadist, nor vice versa.

Depending on whether you were around at the time, you may remember me chiding some of the posters here for the various ill-wishes that were posted back when Ms. Hilton was going to jail for a while. My sense of right and wrong is healthy and doing fine, and the bit about not wanting her to get abused in jail was heartfelt enough. But I still wouldn't mind a copy of the surveillance footage if the wrong thing did happen.

That may seem contradictory, but it's not, really; more like concurrency of perception.

Dig under the surface in a sadist, and a non-sadist will find something they don't like, or that disturbs them. But the bulk of the sadists out there are probably decent folk. I know I'm seen as such by most who know me, including those who know that I'm a sadist. Anyway, seeing as I didn't read the whole thread, I'm not sure what you were after, precisely, but I'm more than happy to go digging back if you did elaborate later on. The original post didn't have a lot of questions.

Pretty sure your idea of a "full blown sadist" has nothing to do with sadists, in any case.

Health,
al-Aswad.


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From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: Sadism vs Sadists - 3/3/2012 6:39:59 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Not necessarily. In fact, it could well be postulated that many sadists are more pleased inflicting suffering on someone who takes no pleasure on it, instead of on someone who suffers less because they are capable of transforming the pain into pleasure.


Damn you for factoring.

There's a decision, a carrying out, an action, a result, a perception of the result leading to a state, your own perception of the result and the state, the empathizing with the state, the knowledge of the various elements, and so forth.

Which factors are independently hot, or interdependent, will vary from sadist to sadist. For some, the ability of some partners to turn pain into pleasure would make it pointless, since there's no state of suffering to respond to. For others, the inflicting itself is the point. I'm of the mind that it suffices, but insofar as sadism is concerned, it isn't optimal.

Then again, I like both red and white wines.

Health,
al-Aswad.


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From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


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RE: Sadism vs Sadists - 3/3/2012 8:56:21 PM   
Kana


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Status: offline 		I'm a sadist because it makes me hard as a rock to hear her scream.
And the hotness, it's not rooted in the pain. It's rooted in the fact that she is surrendering to me and taking the pain.
For me. From me. To please and satisfy me.

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RE: Sadism vs Sadists - 3/3/2012 9:17:26 PM   
LunaM


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kana

I'm a sadist because it makes me hard as a rock to hear her scream.
And the hotness, it's not rooted in the pain. It's rooted in the fact that she is surrendering to me and taking the pain.
For me. From me. To please and satisfy me.



My masochism purrs in response to this. Good post.

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RE: Sadism vs Sadists - 3/4/2012 2:13:10 PM   
FlGirlSeeksOwner


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Status: offline 		Just because they label themselves as a sadist, does not mean they are.
i have found that many put up 'I am a sadist' when they are not really. It seems to be more of away to get someones attention.

i have met one man in RL who i would say is a sadist. Not only does he say he is but he is proud of it. i will bet many of the things you were taught in the armed forces he does on people for fun.
He loves to do chockouts, take dows, water boarding just to name a few.

a girl

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RE: Sadism vs Sadists - 3/5/2012 7:20:16 PM   
lololol


Posts: 1
Joined: 2/1/2011
Status: offline 		Im conflicted with my life growing up and what i gravitate to sexually - i enjoy being used, hurt, humiliated - and am getting more daring if not careless. How do you get the rush and not get in trouble? What do you look for?

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RE: Sadism vs Sadists - 3/6/2012 4:21:47 AM   
Buzzzz


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Status: offline 		I do not believe that being used, hurt and humiliated has a lot to to with sadism. To me sadism is having someone "take it" for me . Such a turn on :) I guess it boost my ego?? Not sure why , but I just like it .... a lot....
Same with having her do things she isn't comfortable doing . Just for me . Very much the same turn on :)

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RE: Sadism vs Sadists - 3/6/2012 4:23:12 AM   
LaTigresse


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Status: offline 		I would venture to say that using your head before losing it in the pursuit of the rush is a pretty good idea.

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