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RE: Recovering a submissive - 5/10/2012 10:14:10 PM   
MistressDarkArt


Posts: 5178
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: racecardriver

He suggested that I try to get her submission even as she tries she feels less drawn to him.


If it ducks like a QUACK...no competent professional, lifestyle or not, would spew this codependent blather. And don't tell me I'm ignorant on this subject. My parents were both highly respected psych professionals, and I myself have worked in the medical field (in large part with abuse/violence/rape crisis cases) since 1990 with college students of all ages, dozens with issues similar to the person you know.

quote:

For the first week, two or three times in the middle of the night she would call me and beg me to stop her from calling him. I go to her house calm her down and put her to sleep. <snip> As far as my marriage, for all those concerned please sleep well tonight you do not have to worry about it, it is not a significant factor and that all I can say about it.


Whew, that explanation makes me feel SOOO much better, thanks! Does Mrs. Racecardriver know you consider her role in this whole mess 'insignificant'? How does she really feel about your nocturnal e-missions as Captain Save-A-Sub?


quote:

I am a physician or not what does that have to do with this issue? I am a man that is who I am, if anyone here has an issue with that let them speak up.

If you don't see how this counts, it's time to repeat your residency. You have an obligation to both kink and vanilla communities to do no harm, and to use your abilities for the highest good of all concerned. Officially or not, whether you LIKE it or not, your communities hold you to higher standards.

Look at your thread title: "Recovering A Submissive". God-complex much, doc? The reality is: no one can do that but her, assisted by the appropriate professionals. That would be the folks who do not put their dick in her mouth. As Alecta mentioned, you're too close to the situation to be objective, and you have your own dog in this fight (your domly dick.)

quote:

snide comments

There is nothing nice about your situation, and if you perceive comments as snide, ask yourself why that galls. Ringing a little too true, a little too close to the bone (pun NOT intended)? There is no lack of compassion on these boards when the chips are down. I doubt anyone here wants to see your friend hurt, or your wife. Your friend is too damaged to know better; your wife is being penalized because of her disability. So what's your excuse? From what I read of the comments, folks are trying to get you to look at your part in perpetuating this whole sordid mess.

I wish your friend, your wife and yes, you...the very best possible outcome for all concerned.





< Message edited by MistressDarkArt -- 5/10/2012 10:44:11 PM >

(in reply to racecardriver)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Recovering a submissive - 5/10/2012 10:48:43 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		As others have said, there are logical reasons you being a "licensed physician" matters a great deal.  Mostly because you should know better.

While you should be applauded for wanting to help this woman, your reason for doing so is highly questionable.  The fact that you say your wife's role in this whole mess is "insignificant" does not speak very highly of you.

A "kinky friendly" therapist has a place in this because the relationship she jumped into after her marriage was BDSM related.  However, if this kink friendly therapist is encouraging her to jump into another relationship and encouraging you to get her to submit to you, he should lose his license.  First of all, he should not be giving you suggestions or discussing her therapy with you just because you pay the bill.  You are not living together, so it isn't like you need to be made aware of certain things.  No legitimate therapist is going to encourage this woman to get into a relationship with someone else at this point.

You say she divorced because her husband was "too vanilla."  As others suggest, I doubt that is the entire story.  Has it occured to you that after legitimate therapy with a therapist who is concerned about his patient, not the one paying the bill, that she may not actually still have an interest in D/s?  It is a very real possibility.  Of course, with you continually pushing her to continue with it, she won't ever be able to make that choice for herself will she?

Look, you want to be her "rock" and offer some stability in the way of friendship, that's great.  But doing this in the hopes of it becoming more means you don't have her best interest at heart.  This woman needs time to heal, from her marriage, and from the previous relationship.  When she is stable and has gone through some self examination to figure out who she is and what she wants, she may very well want to have a relationship with you, although starting a relationship out of gratitude isn't the best idea either.

But you need to really look at this from a much more realistic and objective perspective.  Your marriage IS significant, even if your wife is aware and has given permission for you to seek out someone else.  Why?  Because that is your first commitment, or at least it should be.  I'm sorry, but you saying that it is insignificant, and seeking someone because of your wife's chronic illness really makes me question how you will eventually react if this woman also develops a chronic illness.  Honestly, it sounds as though you are tossing your wife aside because she is ill and can't "perform" anymore to your liking.  Doesn't make you look good.  Regardless, this woman has had her self esteem and value crushed from the abusive relationship.  Her divorce likely did a number on that as well, even if it was she who sought the divorce.  Do you really think it is fair of you to encourage her to become involved with you, where she will still not be "valuable" enough to be number one in your life?

Be a friend, help her out as a friend, but let HER find a therapist that she would like to see (I really don't think a man is a great idea at this point to be honest), and let her decide what is right for her.  Right now, you have ulterior motives for helping her, which means you are abusing her as well.  You may not be beating the shit out of her, but you are still abusing her because your help comes with strings attached.

(in reply to racecardriver)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Recovering a submissive - 5/10/2012 11:34:29 PM   
MistressDarkArt


Posts: 5178
Status: offline



< Message edited by MistressDarkArt -- 5/10/2012 11:43:47 PM >

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Recovering a submissive - 5/11/2012 12:04:47 AM   
AthenaSurrenders


Posts: 3582
Joined: 3/15/2012
Status: offline 		-fr-

Please, PLEASE stop saying she is addicted to her submission. Once again, this is not 'submission' in the way we use the word round here. She is an abuse victim. Her 'addiction' is emotional damage caused by abuse. I would be willing to bet if she bumped into this same guy and struck up a relationship with him without D/s ever being mentioned, she would have ended up in the exact same place. BDSM doesn't make abuse more or less likely, at most it can sometimes mask it for a while.

I am hugely alarmed by the advice of the therapist, and if that is accurately what she has been told I would be looking for a new therapist. So the therapist has established that she reacted this way because this man was her first 'dominant', she is clearly considering returning to him, she is clearly in a messed up emotional state... and the way to deal with this is to go right into another power-exchange relationship? Now I can absolutely believe the therapist encouraging you to stay in her life if you have some trust with her, but surely not as a relationship? I can't get my head around advising someone that way.

In fact re-reading your post, he suggests you 'try to get' her submission? Surely he should be building her up to make her own safe decisions in this, rather than telling someone else to take it from her and undermine her in the same way.

quote:

. May be some of you are thinking she is asking for it she wants the abuse, and at times I felt that way but let me promise you this is not the case, no one likes abuse. When I pressed the issue all her guilt and shame came out, she was desperate. I would like to challenge any man or woman who knows anything about abuse to turn their back and walk away, especially if they know that they have the means to help. Yes I could have walked and washed my hands of the whole situation. Knowing what I know I would have had trouble sleeping at night, and living with myself. .


Nothing I have read here suggests anyone blames her or thinks she deserved the treatment. It actually makes perfect sense that she went back to him, because that's how the psychology of domestic abuse works. And no one is saying walk away, they are saying trying to 'extract' her submission is a bad idea.

This thread is giving me chills.

I'll admit we don't know the details of your relationship with your wife but please think of her. I can't imagine she's getting much, if any, of your time as you focus on this woman, and potentially you are putting her in danger if this guy decides to come looking for you. I hope to god there are no children anywhere in this equation. Just remember you have a duty to your family over your duty to a sex partner.

You mentioned having 'sessions' with this woman. I'd tread very carefully before doing anything physical (As in pain) or sexual whilst she's healing.

And I'm afraid people are bringing your profession up because generally we expect a physician to be able to step back from a situation and make logical choices, to put the welfare of others first and also to have some knowledge about domestic abuse. Ultimately, you put it in your profile on a site seeking BDSM partners, the implication being that it's a selling point. You can't have it all ways.

I'm going to stop now, I feel like I could type all day about this.

At the very least, please be sure she is talking to a domestic abuse organisation (not just the therapist). They should be able to help her with the practical safety side of things and she absolutely will not be judged or disbelieved because of any D/s stuff that might be involved.

Edited to add:

quote:

By posting here I was hoping that there is some one in this community who would give a crap or someone who might have the insight into a situation that can happen to anyone calling themselves a submissive. Or may be someone who may have encountered a similar situation, and provide useful information rather than make obscene and ignorant remarks. If you have no insight please keep your snide remarks to yourself, no one enjoys them but you. This might be my first post here but I am no noob, and some of the response that I got from this bunch is exactly why I don't waste my time.


Well here you go, I give a crap and I absolutely have insight, and probably useful information for this woman. My useful information regarding how to get her submit will be disregarded because it isn't what you want to hear (because I don't think you should). I actually think you've had some insightful advice, and your extra information hasn't changed it for me at all. This is a huge ball of drama waiting to explode. There may be a great future for you with this woman, but not until she's healed, and by jumping into this I think you will probably damage your chances in the long run.

< Message edited by AthenaSurrenders -- 5/11/2012 12:08:52 AM >

_____________________________

Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?

(in reply to MistressDarkArt)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Recovering a submissive - 5/11/2012 1:24:54 AM   
JanahX


Posts: 3443
Joined: 8/21/2010
Status: offline 		Please - DONT SAY IT DELICATELY.
There is really nothing in my post that wasnt exactly the way I see the situation. He came here - told us his story, then got upset that everyone was judging him wrongly - but forgot to fill us in on the details and then accused everyone of "having it wrong" - then he goes on to tell us that some kink therapist is encouraging this woman to immediately indulge into yet another relationship with a man who is married? GIVE ME A BREAK.

I see I am NOT the only one who has stated what I have -( but in maybe a more delicate and detailed way. )
I post the way I post - according to how Im reading the situation, some good, some bad and some ugly -IM BLUNT. and with a lot of these people - you really DO need to be blunt and to the fact. BECAUSE THEY DONT GET IT. { Most never will even though there might be 90 responses that say the same thing.} I just happen to say what a lot of people are actually thinking but DONT. I could give a shit about PC. Im not worried about hurting peoples feelings. If more people would just say what they mean and mean what they say, then a lot of nonsense could get cleared up a lot quicker and be finalized. Passive agressive shit drives me nuts, - and the way I see it -it is the path of cowards.

I dont feel I need to be kind to someone this clueless- especially when they are causing more harm due to their own lust - "Im HELPING HER", BULLSHIT - he's helping himself to HER - and then justifying it by saying he's paying for this that and the other thing. He may have done good by helping her out of a bad situation - great, have a cookie. But the rest of it? - what the hell ever.

She needs a regular psychiatrist - NOT A KINK FREINDLY ANYTHING AT THIS POINT. She was in an abusive relationship - and an abusive relationship has ZERO to do with BDSM. It has to do with anger and control and a person on the other end that is so broken down that they feel they have no where else to go / and or / is addicted to the drama. What the hell does that have to do with kink, bdsm or anything else for that matter?

The reason I am questioning this whole thread - eg: your BS fishy troll comment - is because a lot of what he's writing is not ringing true to me. There is something really wrong here -and its not just the situation at hand.
- its how hes handling it - its the wife in the background and not caring - its him getting up in the middle of the night to go to this woman - Its him being a physician that doenst even get why people are putting that into the equation -its her jumping from husband to abuser to captain save a ho to kink therapist that is encouraging all of this - its him saying no one here understands domestic abuse - I mean I could go on and on about how this isnt making any sense.

- well maybe it does, once again another person is trying to justify getting their jizz on no matter how fucked up the situation is.

As for a response to the way I see you post - you really seem to go off topic a lot to argue with other posters. You derail threads left and right by doing that, and its rude to the OP especially if its a good thread that actually adresses an actual question/discussion.


quote:

how do i say this delicately...there's no easy way because i happen to respect you, and enjoy reading your posts, but vehemently disagree with the negative approach of many of them (and usually remain silent).


we all react based on who we ourselves are. you tend to fill in the blanks with negatives. you yourself called BS fishy troll.

frankly, i'm keen to this filling in blanks negatively, because it's happened to me on this board a few times (not with you), with people assuming really nasty shit. I'll leave it at that.

peace


< Message edited by JanahX -- 5/11/2012 2:19:46 AM >

_____________________________

The first rule of Fight Club is you do not talk about Fight Club.

The second rule of Fight Club is you do not talk about Fight Club.


(in reply to Karmastic)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Recovering a submissive - 5/11/2012 4:43:57 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		I noticed this, but Janah NAILED it:

quote:

ORIGINAL: JanahX


AND I MIGHT BE THE FIRST ONE TO SAY THIS ---> W/ THE WHOLE MARRIED BUT MY WIFE IS ILL / IM A DOCTOR AND THE NATURE OF THIS THREAD / I CANT FORM PARAGRAPHS - I AM CALLING THIS ONE OUT - THIS SMELLS OF BULLSHIT.


LadyP helped save my typing fingers when she wrote this:

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Dude, you couldn't keep Me quiet with this f'cked up BS if you tried.

What does it have to do with it?  I want to know what kind of quack doesn't know the resources in their own location, to get somebody help that has a domestic violence issue.  In most states, living together is not necessarily a requirement for that particular charge.  Anybody who knows their ass from a hole in the ground knows that and people in the medical field certainly should.  It's a very effective part of the law that allows for criminal charges when the victim has a tendency to want to drop their pursuit of restraining orders and such.  It's exactly why the law is written that way in most states to begin with.  It is also the quickest way to get her assistance with anything associated with victims rights. 

If the therapist is suggesting that she stay in a relationship with someone who can't fully commit to her because of a marriage, then she needs another one that will look out for HER best interest instead of worrying who signs the damn check to pay the bill.  Just because a therapist is kink friendly doesn't mean they are supposed to be recommending a person who is coming out of an abusive relationship to become dependent on someone else.  One of the keys to helping to break the cycle of choosing bad partners is to learn how to be stable on her own.  Not hook up with the first guy who comes along who doesn't happen to be physically violent.  Somebody with an ill wife isn't exactly the kind of situation that supports her emotional and mental health at this time.

And, don't give Me the nonsense about ignorance and hate.  If you hadn't been ignorant in the first place, you would have known what was available in your own backyard through the leather community.  The NLA hasn't exactly been quiet about the work that they do to combat domestic violence in the BDSM community.  If you were much of a man, you'd have put yourself aside, helped her in getting assistance, and let her heal from the effects of an abusive relationship.  That would have been the priority of someone who had HER best interests at heart.



Everything Athena said in this thread has been brilliant, but most especially this:

quote:

AthenaSurrenders Please, PLEASE stop saying she is addicted to her submission. Once again, this is not 'submission' in the way we use the word round here. She is an abuse victim. Her 'addiction' is emotional damage caused by abuse. I would be willing to bet if she bumped into this same guy and struck up a relationship with him without D/s ever being mentioned, she would have ended up in the exact same place. BDSM doesn't make abuse more or less likely, at most it can sometimes mask it for a while.

I am hugely alarmed by the advice of the therapist, and if that is accurately what she has been told I would be looking for a new therapist. So the therapist has established that she reacted this way because this man was her first 'dominant', she is clearly considering returning to him, she is clearly in a messed up emotional state... and the way to deal with this is to go right into another power-exchange relationship? Now I can absolutely believe the therapist encouraging you to stay in her life if you have some trust with her, but surely not as a relationship? I can't get my head around advising someone that way.



At this point, I'm ready to call bullshit on all of it. I doubt this guy is a physician, what quack doesn't know about domestic abuse? He's married, almost certainly cheating, and trying to get this woman away from an abuser. Although the latter does him credit, he is going about it in the wrong way.

If she is indeed in therapy, then get a new therapist.

You need to understand this race: If you don't back away from this female, it makes YOU an abuser. You got that? She is not stable enough to make good choices, and only an abuser takes advantage of that.





< Message edited by ChatteParfaitt -- 5/11/2012 4:52:20 AM >

_____________________________



(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Recovering a submissive - 5/11/2012 4:52:50 AM   
mons


Posts: 2400
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline 		Hello to everyone

First I am so shocked and I have this horrible feeling, this person whom is a Doctor?
He has taken a woman whom is not a submisive but a batter woman! I cried inside and out,
because, when someone is 200 lb. and I was 100 lb, he beat me and did things to me I can not write
about! I think I may have before! He has taken this woman, and claims she is a submissive in recovery, really!
How can I explain it, a true dominant does not beat someone until lthey are senseless, try to kill them or make
it so they have no soul left to hang on too! I had to run across country to save myself! "Then and only then was I
safe! (when I said senseless I mean black eyes wreck neck joint)

What he is doing is messing with her mind, people like him come here and see if we approve and if we say "oh hey good job your
saving her! He would keep on with his so called "bringing her to her full self"

He a abuser whom is in the "closet" This is not about BDSM it is about the control he does not have over his wife! He is
married which shock the hell out of me! Where does he find the time to lol train her! I know we are not to judge others
but where is he taking her too? He wants so much from her, and she is in a state sheer not knowing which way to turn! ! I have forgive but not forgotten ! It is the
right thing to do, I hope he listen to what has been written here by people here, buddy live and learn! Leave her to heal, to grow, to live again!

I am nervous when I write here my spelling is well a mess at times but this post made me see so much was wrong with his
handling of her!

Mons ( I am one hell of a strong woman now no one ever hit me again ):-)

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Recovering a submissive - 5/11/2012 5:20:04 AM   
Englishcrumpet


Posts: 43
Joined: 2/28/2012
Status: offline 		FR - ive skipped through quickly so im not sure if this has been mentioned yet..,

but if violence is her thing and it really could be - ive read enough threads on FL to see that some 'subs' see violent abuse as their trigger and if gentle coercive patient dominance isnt hitting her buttons then what you probably have here is someone who equates violence and abuse with 'desireable' coercion.

im sub, ive been in abusive relationships, i did go back to them after leaving BUT i didnt go back for the abuse - i went back because i really wanted it to work out.  but it didnt and so i left.

if a person is addicted in whatever way to violence because its the only way they can actually respond sexually and emotionally then this is way beyond cod psychology.

for me, ill admit, i need a guy to grab me by the gut and twist it before i feel anything remotely like im with someone who has the necessary to make me pay attention.  i know full well thats because i can be emotionally distant and cushioned by so much 'self protect' it takes a hard hammer to crack through.  but i also know the difference between abuse and respect.

she needs to know the difference and right now she doesnt.  i wish you luck with this, its going to take someone, maybe itll be you ...

(in reply to mons)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Recovering a submissive - 5/11/2012 7:06:33 AM   
racecardriver


Posts: 6
Joined: 4/22/2012
Status: offline 		I certainly have everyone to thank for their remarks. It is hard to deny what everyone is saying, after filtering the negative remarks which I have to admit that some are deserved,and after sleeping on it I have a lot to re-evaluate, and certainly my eyes are opened to things that I was not seeing. But my intention was and remains to help her I never took advantage of her, I was in a relationship with her before any of this came to life I was faced with either walking away or stay and try to help. I chose to stay, I did not take someone who was in an abusive relationship and try to make them my sub, I found out that someone who I am in relatively casual but advancing D/S relationship with is being abused.

I may be guilty of poor judgement, but when someone you care about is in pain and in physical danger anyone including those who chastised me would have tried to help. I did and it has been crisis management since then. It is sometimes hard to make a rational decision when you are too emotionally involved. I feel that if I walk out now she will go back to her abuser, however the thing that makes most sense is for me to be a friend and nothing more. After she completes therapy (with the same or a different therapist), we would have to re-evaluate our situation, which most likely would be the time for me to walk.

Again to those concerned, may be I showed some poor judgement in this situation, but normally I have a sound and rational decision ability. So please, really my marriage and my wife are both fine, I have no desire to disclose anything else about it.

And I learned how to make paragraphs it turns out to be easy.

(in reply to Englishcrumpet)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Recovering a submissive - 5/11/2012 7:23:38 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDarkArt
There is nothing nice about your situation, and if you perceive comments as snide, ask yourself why that galls. Ringing a little too true, a little too close to the bone (pun NOT intended)? There is no lack of compassion on these boards when the chips are down. I doubt anyone here wants to see your friend hurt, or your wife. Your friend is too damaged to know better; your wife is being penalized because of her disability. So what's your excuse? From what I read of the comments, folks are trying to get you to look at your part in perpetuating this whole sordid mess.

I agree all except for the "lack of compassion" comment.

Yes, I think this guy has a god complex. Yes, I think what I'm reading is gross... even after all his corrections. No, I cannot imagine myself trying to help a woman in this situation and get blow jobs from her at the same time.

But all that being said, there is a massive lack of compassion here and I think it takes a special kind of masochist to post personal problems here.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to MistressDarkArt)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Recovering a submissive - 5/11/2012 7:54:25 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

Original: JeffBC

No, I cannot imagine myself trying to help a woman in this situation and get blow jobs from her at the same time.


Exactly.

quote:

Original: racecardriver

But my intention was and remains to help her I never took advantage of her, I was in a relationship with her before any of this came to life I was faced with either walking away or stay and try to help. I chose to stay, I did not take someone who was in an abusive relationship and try to make them my sub, I found out that someone who I am in relatively casual but advancing D/S relationship with is being abused.


The consensus appears to be that you ARE taking advantage of her by continuing to seek her submission while she is trying to extricate herself from the abusive relationship.

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Recovering a submissive - 5/11/2012 8:29:28 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		Thank you for the update, race.

It takes a big man to admit he was wrong and needs to re-evaluate a situation.

And please, please if you don't wish to take our advice about her therapist, get some references (should be easy to do, being a quack in all) and make a few a calls. Outline what you have told us and pay attention to what they tell you.

I'm giving 100 to 1 odds for it will be: her therapist is as messed up as she is.

B/c what you have outlined is not kosher therapy wise.

_____________________________



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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Recovering a submissive - 5/11/2012 8:41:21 AM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		What if she's left alone to recover and she ends up going back to the abuser because she feels lonely? Another reason victims can return to their abusers is fear of loneliness. Many abusers tell their victims if they leave, nobody else will ever want them, put up with them etc. and they'll spend the rest of their lives alone. For some victims, fear of being alone is just as strong if not stronger than the fear of abuse.

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


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(in reply to racecardriver)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Recovering a submissive - 5/11/2012 8:55:46 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		Nobody said stop being her friend, we said stop being her sex partner. Big difference. And if the girl thinks she needs sex that badly, she is even more seriously fucked up then we already think.

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Recovering a submissive - 5/11/2012 10:01:25 AM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		OP you have mail.

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008

(in reply to racecardriver)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Recovering a submissive - 5/11/2012 11:52:06 AM   
JanahX


Posts: 3443
Joined: 8/21/2010
Status: offline 		And what if she does? What if the world got hit by a huge ass meteorite tomorrow and she never gets the chance?
Are you actually encouraging the OP to keep up the state of his physical relations with the girl in question because she might "go back" due to loneliness?

As almost everyone here has stated - its a better idea to keep a platonic friendship with this woman, and let her get her ducks in line so she can make decisions not based on fear and low self esteem.

< Message edited by JanahX -- 5/11/2012 11:53:10 AM >

_____________________________

The first rule of Fight Club is you do not talk about Fight Club.

The second rule of Fight Club is you do not talk about Fight Club.


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Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Recovering a submissive - 5/11/2012 12:05:31 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

What if she's left alone to recover and she ends up going back to the abuser because she feels lonely? Another reason victims can return to their abusers is fear of loneliness. Many abusers tell their victims if they leave, nobody else will ever want them, put up with them etc. and they'll spend the rest of their lives alone. For some victims, fear of being alone is just as strong if not stronger than the fear of abuse.


You condone the enabling of the emotionally abused to the point of their not making good choices? You condone the further abuse it would be to a person, abused, because they are not stable and feel it is better to continue than to rehabilitate basically? You cannot cater to the dysfunction in a manner that will only continue it on any level.

You may have your opinions, but... what you are saying here is not helpful. There needs to be some sort of intervention in this type of situation and man she has been with. Without healing, what is being done by a 'better' dominant that fills a spot could be seriously damaging(!) and enables poor life and relationship skills, so that it goes on for many years if she survives it at all.

I have been on call night and day and have been up for days at a time dealing with crisis and people getting out of it whether they saw good reason to or not and have many times had to go hold someone's hand so they didn't go back, so they could heal and move on in a healthy manner. There is no reason to cater to or enable someone not living a healthy lifestyle rather than handle the situation appropriately.

Excusing, enabling and catering to emotional illness or dangerous situations inappropriately is bad advice and poor life skills. You might as well stand beside these guys that have abused and add your own punches.

_____________________________

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(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Recovering a submissive - 5/11/2012 3:57:19 PM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
Status: offline 		i suspect we will never know all the details, but my original viewpoint has not really changed even with the additional facts provided.

I'm not sure I agree with her therapist's approach as I don't really see this as a BDSM issue. She was in an abusive relationship. Period. Standard in an abusive situation is ensuring that someone recovers from their situation before moving on to something new. She is not capable of being in another relationship right now. I also think that she doesn't need another relationship to recover from the old one. If this were the case, all therapists would be doing this with victims of domestic abuse. And it's just not what happens.

So, you are free to ask advice here, you are free to provide whatever facts suit you, you are free to ignore the advice that is given.

But it is a tad disingenuous to tell people who have posted here that they aren't allowed to be honest with their opinions. We are entitled to disagree with you.

But I remain concerned about this woman who seems to have two people in her life currently who are not really doing the best they could do of helping her recover. That disturbs me tremendously.

_____________________________

~ ftp

(in reply to racecardriver)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Recovering a submissive - 5/11/2012 4:26:37 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

What if she's left alone to recover and she ends up going back to the abuser because she feels lonely? Another reason victims can return to their abusers is fear of loneliness. Many abusers tell their victims if they leave, nobody else will ever want them, put up with them etc. and they'll spend the rest of their lives alone. For some victims, fear of being alone is just as strong if not stronger than the fear of abuse.

This entire comment goes back to the co-dependency issue that most DV victims encounter.  It's part of the mental and emotional abuse that almost always goes hand in hand with the physical abuse.  It also ties into why abused women, if they don't receive proper counseling, tend to go from one unhealthy relationship to the next.  They don't believe that they deserve any better because that is exactly what they have been taught.

That is why I so adamantly disagree with the OP's line of action and the so-called therapist's 'recommendation' about continuing a D/s relationship at this time.  The woman involved in literally continuing to be taught that she doesn't deserve a full time relationship because she is settling for only what she feels she is worth.  Without even trying, this situation is confirming what this woman has been conditioned to believe from her abuser.  It's being demonstrated to her that she's only good enough for monogamy if it's linked to physical abuse.  The only way she can be involved with a non violent partner is to be secondary.

By contributing to this woman's conditioning, the OP is continuing to harm this woman, and yes, I do expect him to know better as a licensed physician.  The term battered woman's syndrome tends to get linked to the legal arena, but that's not it's origin.  It's a medical diagnosis that is associated to PTSD that has been researched since the 1970's.  That's why those of us who have any experience in dealing with abuse victims are coming down so hard on this guy and the so-called therapist as well. 

A BDSM message board is so far down on the list of resources that a medical professional would be relying on that it is laughable that the OP came here.  Not the domestic violence hotline, not colleagues, not research on published articles in scientific journals.  This OP couldn't be a janitor in a medically linked office or facility without coming across a poster on a wall or a pamphlet available on abuse.  There is a reason this person came here, rather than even doing a simple google search.  What exactly do you suppose might be the motivation for that?


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Recovering a submissive - 5/11/2012 4:38:19 PM   
JanahX


Posts: 3443
Joined: 8/21/2010
Status: offline 		Good post LadyP -Like I said- I called bullshit on this thread right off the bat. This just doesnt add up.

_____________________________

The first rule of Fight Club is you do not talk about Fight Club.

The second rule of Fight Club is you do not talk about Fight Club.


(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 60
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