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RE: Recovering a submissive - 5/11/2012 10:56:21 PM   
AngelOfSilence


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I prefer a muted floral pattern or something in a pastel gingham.

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(in reply to racecardriver)
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RE: Recovering a submissive - 5/11/2012 11:39:29 PM   
Karmastic


Posts: 1650
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From: Los Angeles
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: Karmastic

good point about having compassion for the abused woman. i agree she should come first but disagree there's an order, or OP doesn't deserve any. i think it's silly to suggest OP was received with compassion, generally speaking. sounds like we disagree that OP deserved any compassion.

quote:

The fact that this is a personal, rather than a professional relationship, doesn't necessarily change that.


i'm really really sure you're wrong about this. there's no fiduciary duty, and no higher standard in this situation (called a good Samaritan). you made good point about how he should have known on a personal level - leave it at that.

edit ps - i think perhaps OP did already know everything we told him, but needed it to hit home.

No, it's not called Good Samaritan.  The fact that the OP has specifically received an education in the medical field relieves him of that.  Good Samaritan laws don't apply when any aid is directly related to an occupation.

Under the good samaritan laws which grant immunity, if the good samaritan makes an error while rendering emergency medical care, he or she cannot be held legally liable for damages in court. However, two conditions usually must be met; 1) the aid must be given at the scene of the emergency, and. 2) if the "volunteer" has other motives, such as the hope of being paid a fee or reward, then the law will not apply.

Sorry, but "other motives" absolutely can include sexual favors.


you make an excellent legal argument for why he couldn't use a good sam defense (other motives) :)

it also shows how it really doesn't apply anyway (no emergency in any exigent sense). it was a poor example for me to bring up, which was in disagreeing with you that he has some legal responsibility (i.e., fiduciary duty) just because he's a doctor. i chimed in on that cus there's no doctor patient relationship here. the only legal significance is IF he was to be frivolously sued for negligence or something similar, there would be a presumption that he has better knowledge of some medical things, as a doctor. it would be frivolous because there's no doctor patient relationship.


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Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Recovering a submissive - 5/12/2012 4:59:06 AM   
mons


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hello definatbad girl


what you have said (they go back because they feel lonley and no one wil want them)
Many women and I am one of that group do not stay becasue they feeling lonely oh no, they stay
out of fear! If your beaten and force to do things, it isfear shaping the relsationship!

It start with a jealous nature,then the slap, or a push, I was very young, I did not know what to do,
I still have a scar where he grabbed my arm! It happens to be sheer fear, how many times have we all read
how woman are killed when they tried to leave!


Fear kept me there, fear made me never want to be with him, fear of so many things!
He tried to kill me more times! Hell I was never frighten of losing that piece of shit, I wanted to get away !

I hated him to touch me, I hated his very smell and he enjoy kicking me in my backside in public! I do not want to
get to personal but anything and everything he did to me made me ill!

No this is not true any time when the police are called they "scream do not take him , becasue when he gets out
watch out he will beat you even more !

Last so many people think woman want this no it is fear that I donot think you would understand! This is different then BDSM when you have control ober someone
and it is a consent of two adutl loving, and each knows what isexpect this is so dfiferent!

If you never experince a true ass beaten when you wish it would only stop and hope he will stop, nothing works!
I can say this I never give this emotion to anyone, I never given that power, but I still hate that piece of shit !!!!!

I hope many of you will understand a skill BDSM , and the big difference of a f(&^%%** nut!

Lady Pact wonderful post! Yes i wonder why too?

MOns

(in reply to JanahX)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Recovering a submissive - 5/12/2012 5:17:11 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

A person recovering from abuse does not have good judgment and discrimination about what is good for her/him.


Isn't this sentiment sort of paradoxical in regard to rehabilitative therapy?

(Poorly phrased, I fear. If I'm being stupendously anything here, just let me know and I'll make another go at this.)

IWYW,
- Aswad.





Great to see you posting, Aswad ! As regards your statement: In theory, a therapist of any ilk will be able to help the person make more positive and informed choices. In reality, not all therapists are great, and not all people in therapy are truly committed to changing their behavior.

After all, changing behavior is very difficult for *everyone.* Even with the best of help from friends and family and therapist and an enormous amount of personal motivation.



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RE: Recovering a submissive - 5/12/2012 8:37:34 AM   
racecardriver


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Thank you for your posts. You are very knowledgeable in Domestic abuse. I would like to point out the following facts (this is posted as a third person to illustrate a point):

1. The OP discovered abuse during intimacy with victim when seeing bruises that appeared to be caused by a closed fist, and some on areas of the body outside what is expected.

2. Confronted the victim who was in total denial, spent two days with intense discussion providing endless references, in an intervention style. He finally and gradually was able to get the victim to acknowledges abuse, but become despondent OP promises to help.

3. OP researched and found few kink aware therapists in this area to choose from. the victim selected one of the therapist who based on research appears to be skilled and well known. The OP is paying at a significant cost, and is committed to finishing the treatment. The OP specifically advises victim that he expects no pay backs. He can afford it therefore he will do it.

4. The OP and the victim were in a relationship before any abuse issues were known. It was during intimacy that the OP saw the bruises. Although in a relationship only for almost three month the OP and victim developed a degree of affection and were on track to advance their relationship. The victim is fully aware of the OP marital status. The OP has significant amount of affection towards the victim, and is told by the victim that she shares his feelings. He does realize now that the fact this all happened under the dark cloud of abuse, the victim's declarations are not valid.

5. After discovering abuse, all sexual and BDSM activity stopped initially for about two weeks later sexual activity resumed lightly based on victim's request . Apparently with the therapist hesitant approval and monitoring.

6. A couple of weeks later the OP is told by victim that therapist advised victim that it will help her if she submit to someone else. The OP never met or talked to therapist, and never discussed anything about victim's therapy with victim who conveyed this message.

7. OP is trying but cannot be a dominant mostly because he feels bad for the victim.

8. OP posts in BDSM board, he is told by almost everyone that he is an asshole, at first he is defensive, but soon recognizes his mistakes.

Last night OP discussed with victim that it is very wrong for her to submit in the wake of her abusive relationship she is still dealing with, he also castes doubt on shrink's professional ability and offered to change therapist. Victim is upset and admits to the OP's surprise that it was her idea that her submission would help, the therapist never suggested that. Only suggestion was that it is possible to continue intimacy. OP suggests that intimacy should also stop to allow her a clear mind. He vows support to continue. Victim is now very upset sobbing, and thinks that OP is deserting her despite his verbal reassurance. She claims to enjoy their time together. OP has no intention of any further intimacy but will continue to be supportive, he left the question open for now to relieve the victim's anxiety. They both agree that OP will make an appointment and discuss this issue with shrink (if deemed appropriate by shrink). OP is concerned now that victim wants to continue intimacy for fear that OP will leave. OP does not think this is an acceptable reason, he will stay as a platonic friend. At this point OP is convinced that this relationship in not likely to be viable in the future, other than friendship, and hopefully he will prove that intimacy is not needed to keep OP around to see victim through.

It is more likely than not that the OP's background helped him discover the abuse, in the face of severe denial by the victim. The victim originally became confrontational, and the OP put his relationship with her on the line. It would have been easier for him to just turn a blind eye, but with the possibility that someone he genuinely cares for is being abused he persisted. Despite being married the OP prefers monogamous and long term relationships, with women who are fully aware of his situation, and willing to accept it. He will never divorce his wife who is extremely well cared for in a safe and supportive home environment, but he must step outside his marriage for a meaningful relationship with a woman. The OP's work is specialized in an area that has nothing to do with domestic violence, and he has never encountered a victim of DV in his work. Last time the OP learned about DV was in school almost 20 years ago. The OP is emotionally and physically involved in this situation and trying to help, which is what he thought he was doing, when he asked the original D/S question. The OP does acknowledge that based on common sense alone he should have questioned the logic of a D/S relationship while victim is recovering from abuse, especially when he was unable to be a dominant and became frustrated. The OP acknowledges his mistake, as he was too close and too emotionally involved. May be that is why physicians are discouraged from treating loved ones. OP does not want any compassion or applaud as he does not think he deserves any. He does want some of the vocal members to congratulate themselves for bringing the OP to his senses, and to acknowledge that not many would actually go out that far on a limb to help someone in this situation. The op would like these members to be more objective and look at the whole situation the bad and the good. He hopes these informed posters would consider that despite making mistakes that may have delayed the victim's recovery, he is willing to correct them, and he did act when may be it would have been easier for him not to , and hopefully he would have made a small contribution to the effort of helping an abuse victim out of her abusive situation, and avoid the pitfalls that could lead to another one in the future; of course that remains to be seen.

I would like to thank all who posted as this is my last contribution to this post.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Recovering a submissive - 5/12/2012 9:32:16 AM   
JanahX


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Good Turn Around OP - Hope things work out for the best.

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The second rule of Fight Club is you do not talk about Fight Club.


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RE: Recovering a submissive - 5/12/2012 10:09:51 AM   
JeffBC


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From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: racecardriver
The op would like these members to be more objective and look at the whole situation the bad and the good. He hopes these informed posters would consider that despite making mistakes that may have delayed the victim's recovery, he is willing to correct them

Well, this member is fine with all of that. God only knows I've found myself in situations where I was out of my depth and have made mistakes.

I pretty much agree that "fear of abandonment" -- along with perfectly predictable attachment to her rescuer -- is probably what's driving her fear of your withdrawal of physical intimacy. Like you, I find those reasons unacceptable and ultimately not healthy for her. I hope her fears quiet down as she sees that, in fact, you are not abandoning her but rather repositioning yourself to better help. I'm not certain if you have any interest a tighter relationship with her or not, but if so then I'd be looking to set her free first (in the sense of enabling her to stand on her own) and then looking to see if she came back to you.


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

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RE: Recovering a submissive - 5/12/2012 10:52:33 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


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From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
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I appreciate the update.

Please, try to understand the intense victimization involved here. This woman sounds very much like someone who was abused during childhood, possibly sexually. She has very low self esteem and thinks her vagina is her only asset. She is offering you sex and is upset when you refuse b/c to her a vagina is all she is, she has no other worth. By rejecting her sexually, you are rejecting her.

She's that screwed up.

Having sex with her at this point only reinforces the idea that her only worth is as a sexual object.

And, you haven't met the therapist?

This therapist still sounds hinky as all hell to me.

Best of luck in dealing with a very difficult situation.



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Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Recovering a submissive - 5/12/2012 11:07:11 AM   
Alecta


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quote:

Victim is upset and admits to the OP's surprise that it was her idea that her submission would help, the therapist never suggested that. Only suggestion was that it is possible to continue intimacy.


Geez. You really should have known better. Patients misrelay their doctors' words and instructions all the time, particularly when they don't agree with them (cue husband vs being told not to snack after dinner). Please, anyone who've got someone seeing a therapist or specialist, get your information on the person's condition and treatment directly from the attending, not the patient.

(in reply to racecardriver)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Recovering a submissive - 5/12/2012 1:32:23 PM   
MistressDarkArt


Posts: 5178
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quote:

ORIGINAL: racecardriver

Thank you for your posts...


We live and learn. Sounds like there's now a clear path for all to stabilize, grow and move forward. Best wishes.


< Message edited by MistressDarkArt -- 5/12/2012 1:33:26 PM >

(in reply to racecardriver)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Recovering a submissive - 5/12/2012 2:10:57 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: racecardriver

Thank you for your posts. You are very knowledgeable in Domestic abuse. I would like to point out the following facts (this is posted as a third person to illustrate a point):

<snip>

I would like to thank all who posted as this is my last contribution to this post.

I don't know if you stopped reading on page five or intentionally went back to hit the "in reply to" feature specifically.  I'm pretty sure that 'you' meant the folks on the board collectively, but you are welcome in either case.  Frankly, you just happened to luck out, OP.  See, when Lockit told you in a prior response that some of us here have volunteered or worked in this field, she was right, so as far as the bit about how far people are willing to go out on a limb and such, you might be surprised.

Unless you're working in a lab where you have no patient contact, you most likely have run across victims of DV in your work.  Statistically, that's the truth.  The fact that you are not aware of it doesn't change that.  Rather than a BDSM board, you might be interested in getting some information on that from the resources in your local area.  You can do this by either reading sites on the web or by contacting directly and having them send you an information packet.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Recovering a submissive - 5/12/2012 4:34:29 PM   
kalikshama


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quote:

fear of abandonment


I wonder if she has Borderline Personality Disorder.

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Recovering a submissive - 5/12/2012 8:21:03 PM   
Karmastic


Posts: 1650
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From: Los Angeles
Status: offline
thank you for the update OP. seems like you needed to go on this mental journey, and i'm glad you wrote it out (therapeutic) and seem to have a better handle on things now.


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If my experience level makes you feel superior, that is your problem, not mine.

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Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Recovering a submissive - 5/12/2012 8:33:43 PM   
fucktoyprincess


Posts: 2337
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FR

Thanks for the update. Wish you well.

Sometimes being there for someone actually means not being there for them.

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Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Recovering a submissive - 5/12/2012 11:13:05 PM   
HisSub1213


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I have to agree with what's been said prior, but I do have one question... and it speaks to "compassion"

What about the "wife".  Your profile states "Married in an asexual relationship due to chronic illness", and yet you have relationships outside the marriage, get up in the middle of the night to go to this girl... Maybe I'm confused or missed something, but when my late spouse was chronic, the last thing I would have done was to run off to someone else in the middle of the night.  Or did I miss something here?

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HisSub1213

Genius may have its limitations, but stupidity is not thus handicapped. (Elbert Hubbard)

Fear is the mother of morality. (Friedrich Nietzsche)

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RE: Recovering a submissive - 5/13/2012 2:10:07 AM   
mons


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Op

Good last report, I wish you the best! Do you love her?

Mons

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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Recovering a submissive - 5/13/2012 8:32:39 PM   
OsideGirl


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From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: racecardriver


The therapist had suggested that I stay in her life as we have already a trusting relationship. He suggested that I try to get her submission even as she tries she feels less drawn to him.


I'm sure that this has been discussed a zillion times on the previous pages but just had to say this.

I find it very hard to believe that a therapist would recommend that a severely damaged person be in a power exchange relationship or be involved with an emotionally unavailable married man.


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RE: Recovering a submissive - 5/14/2012 6:00:57 AM   
kalikshama


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Yes, the OP has now learned that the woman ("Victim") had made up statements she'd attributed to the therapist.

quote:

Victim is upset and admits to the OP's surprise that it was her idea that her submission would help, the therapist never suggested that.

(in reply to OsideGirl)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Recovering a submissive - 5/14/2012 10:42:18 AM   
Whiplashsmile4


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My advice.... Maintain self-control through this Rollar Coaster Ride. If it gets too much for you, it's time to GTFO. Focus and deal with your own limits. Too easy to get lost in all her issues and problems and turn your back on your own. Put your centered of Dominant Energy upon yourself first and foremost in this crazy situation.

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RE: Recovering a submissive - 5/14/2012 4:32:25 PM   
Aswad


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

The sentence went along with my whole post. Taken away from the rest of the post, it can sound like something different than it was intended.


It must of course be read in context. I merely wish to clarify whether that statement was intended as part of a pointed commentary on the OP having culpability in this situation, or whether your position includes an actual lack of distinction of degrees of severity.

quote:

Maybe my words might seem to be extreme, but I take abuse of this type, followed by a physician playing dom with her and then being encouraged, seriously. Working a great deal of my life with the abused... its a little hard not to take it seriously.


I believe it is possible to take things seriously without losing perspective or discarding nuance. It seems healthier to me to maintain this distinction. Given how you call them "the abused", and not "people who have been abused", you presumably know how many make their experience a part of their identity, and I think neglecting perspective and nuance will be detrimental in regard to that. Similarly, perceptions regarding just how much they can do in terms of their own recovery, how much intervention is required, and so forth, is an area in which it is crucial to be accurate in perception. Sorting them all under one heading would work against that.

Hence, the question.

IWYW,
- Aswad.



_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to Lockit)
Profile   Post #: 100
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